Contraversial calls in the state tournament

[delaWarr]

I for sure agree on Crosby and Pennington. They impressed a alot of people with their versatility. I think they are exceptional. A visual recall of their match was, in part, what prompted the observation in my previous post "examples that defy the logic." During years of watching heavies on all levels, finding two heavies on the mat in the same match as we saw in Crosby and Pennington has not been the rule. These two appeared to be adept and well-schooled in the execution of what we saw them do in their match. Many of us will probably ear-mark that match in our memories as one of the truly outstanding heavyweight matches, in terms of versatility, execution, excitement, and pure fan entertainment. But, aside from being a match between heavies, it was a good, well fought match period.

[Edited by delaWarr on 3-16-03 11:03A]

[PUMMELKING]

Shots go under and the up with the heavy guys on top. Throws puts your opponent on his back with you on top, why do think most big guys go for throws. One throw and the match can be over. One bad shot and you end up on bottom with all the weight of the other guy on top.

Throw them pin them and get them off the mat.NEXT!!!!!!

[delaWarr]

Pummelking, Although I have an appreciation for most aspects of wrestling (exceptions: strategies bordering on stalling or used mainly for control or consistently seeking the out-of-bounds line as a counter against a takedown), like you, I find a well-set-up and executed throw to be among the most spectacular scores in wrestling. A good throw never fails to bring a spontaneous response from the crowd. Greco is probably America's least favorite compared to Freestyle and Folkstyle, but when upper body is added to the mix in Scholastic/Collegiate, it can raise the level of anticipation and excitement for those watching.

[PUMMELKING]

delaWarr,

Good point. I wish more coaches would get into wrestling Greco. A wrestlers feet going over his head is an awesome sight to see!!!!

[reftn]

Asylamer,

 

Suddenly the wrestlers style becomes important.

 

Charles McTorry is a great example.

 

If an official didnt know McTorry, he could have been hit for stalling 50% of the time. His fist steps were back and circle. But if you knew McTorry, it was all set up for what was arguably the best double leg in TN history. He was coming in for the takedown, but the 10ft circle didnt allow him his "start". So give the wrestler the leeway of 28ft, as long as (back to the book) he is wrestling aggressively to secure a fall.

 

reftn

[Guest Smokediver]

della war I understand your idea, however, wouldn't that make these guys one deminsional. I think that was the term that was used to describe me when I first brought up the pushing and shoving without results.

 

My whole point is that if the upper body stuff isn't working why don't the bigger guys go to the mat and shoot. As someone has already noted, Crosby and Pennington have done it. Look at where they were.

[Guest Smokediver]

I agree with you, a well executed throw is very impressive. I like seeing them myself. My view is that if it isn't working be versatile enough to go to something else.

[Guest Smokediver]

reftn

 

You have said that you are an official, and I think I know who you are. Send me an email. tidefan1@hotmail.com

[Edited by Smokediver on 3-20-03 1:34P]

 

[Asylamer]

Reftn, And also, suddenly the official's style becomes important.

 

Your post on 3-19 is a great example.

 

You gave an example of a wrestler who "could have been hit for stalling 50% of the time", because he used stalling maneuvers to set up his offensive specialty. As you indicated, if the official knew the wrestler's style, his stalling tactics weren't really stalling or they were stalling, but they were okay because they were a part of his plan...an approach to officiating that sort of employs a "The end justifies the means" philosophy. If an official didn't know the wrestler's plan, then the wrestler could have been called for stalling half the time, but if the official did understand the wrestler's plan, that 50%-of- the-time stalling was permissible.

 

I can see all kinds of possibilities and potentials for outcomes with an official who can justify tolerating infractions of a judgemental nature or can justify extending the time allowed before making the call because he understands what the offending wrestler has in mind for utilizing the infraction.

[delaWarr]

Smokediver, I'm not certain where we are in this discussion, but you first mentioned "one dimensional" in your post on March 9 at 9:33PM when you were expressing concern about heavies not taking a shot now and then. I can best answer your question by agreeing with the response of another poster who responded to the same question in an earlier post in this thread. If the use of upper body only is considered one dimensional, wouldn't the use of shots only not also be considered one dimensional?

 

I'm not taking a stand on one dimensional, but I have seen many very successful wrestlers whose applied technique was very limited. Mike Carouso, who wrestled up East in the '60s, used a fireman's carry almost exclusively for his takedowns, and he enjoyed a high success rate with it.

 

If a wrestler is not having success with a particular takedown, it seems reasonable for him to try another strategy. But I see that as something for his coach to deal with, not an official calling his match.

 

As far as big guys taking shots, that is an individual consideration. We have probably all seen big guys who had absolutely no business going in for legs ever and other big guys who had the flexibility and agility to put on a shot clinic. It does not seem practical to make a blanket statement about technique and strategy that applies to all wrestlers in a given sitation.

[Edited by delaWarr on 3-24-03 5:10A]

 

[reftn]

hi smoke....

 

coachtn@hotmail.com

 

I thought it was available in my profile.

[Guest Smokediver]

dellaWAR,

 

If you look at my post what I am trying to get across is that the biheavier weights seem to just want to try upper body stuff without expanding their "bag of tricks". Then you end up with two big guys pushing and laying on each other without accomplishing anything but putting the crowd, coaches, scorers and even officials to sleep. It seemed to me that there was a few posts that were saying that was the only way to go because it looked good and was impressive. I agree. It is impressive, but when it isn't working and all you have is two guys doing a dance without music, in my opinion, it's stalling. If that's the coaches job to expand a wrestler, so be it. Maybe if we started calling more stalling the coaches might start teaching the wrstlers that it's okay to take a shot every now and then. You said it yourself, one of the best heavy wrestlers you saw used a fireman's carry. I would just like to see more of the bigger guys work more on the lower body and try some different things.

 

The original discussion, I thought was about stalling. And it had to do with heavier weights. Somehow, we ended up here. (Looking around for my road map to find my way back)