Officals

[jgarrison]

I had the opportunity to watch TSSAA go thru training with refs at the Carson Newman team camp this past year and I can understand why they call the way they do. They are being watched by the trainers and the only comment or correction they have is the way they move their feet, talking to the table, and being in this position to make a call. Don't get me wrong those things are important, but at the same time girls are walking, fouling and with no call being made but they don't say anything about those areas. It was like those things are irrelevant to their job. My daughter's team was the one doing some of the walking & fouling so I am not crying over spilt milk.

[maristep]

i truly wasn't trying to say that you were "crying over spilt milk." i was just commenting on the issues that officials deal with at every game. i'm sorry if i have offended you.

[jgarrison]

I didn't take it that way it's just that more than one person reads these post and I was just making it known we were guilty of the act.

I for one would never ref a game. That to me has to be one of the toughest jobs on the court, but the point I make is there is hours on top of hours of film that every school has where there is obvious bias or bad calls made and the officials who are guilty of these offenses are not made accountable for their actions, like the people on the court are. I just think more should be done about it and it seems TSSAA could care less.

[Edited by jgarrison on 3-14-03 12:16P]

 

[hoopfan1]

1) The biggest inconsistent that I have seen is the difference in the way that district and regional tournaments were called verses the state tournament. It seems they allowed the players to play, yet they kept the game from getting out of hand.

In the state tournament, touch fouls are being called and the players seem to have a hard time adjusting.

The officiating at the district and regional tournaments seemed to be much better than at the state tournament.

 

2) Why is it that the officials are not introduced at the state tournament. In district and regional play, you see and become familiar with many of the officials because they are usually local to that area. In the state tournament, many of the officials are not familiar faces.

It would also be nice to know what area of the state they come from. I often wonder, after what I would call an inconsistent or appeared to be biased officiated game, if there is a conflict of interest at times.

[hoopfan1]

1) The biggest inconsistent that I have seen is the difference in the way that district and regional tournaments were called verses the state tournament. It seems they allowed the players to play, yet they kept the game from getting out of hand.

In the state tournament, touch fouls are being called and the players seem to have a hard time adjusting.

The officiating at the district and regional tournaments seemed to be much better than at the state tournament.

 

2) Why is it that the officials are not introduced at the state tournament. In district and regional play, you see and become familiar with many of the officials because they are usually local to that area. In the state tournament, many of the officials are not familiar faces.

It would also be nice to know what area of the state they come from. I often wonder, after what I would call an inconsistent or appeared to be biased officiated game, if there is a conflict of interest at times. :confused:

[Fox40Deaf]

Folks:

 

Some realities about officiating from a former high school and college basketball official:

 

1. Tournament officials are usually "encouraged" to put their whistles in their pockets during games, for good reason: people came to see kids play basketball, not watch the referees.

 

2. Officiating at all levels is getting more lax. Watch college ballhandlers closely this March: you'll see a lot of traveling and carrying the ball, such as when someone received a pass and "rocks" from one foot to the other before established a pivot foot. Down low, you'll see forwards and centers shuffle their feet a bit BEFORE their drop step/move to the basket (admittedly, the hardest call in officiating for the lead/baseline official, since he or she is too close to the action to often see it).

 

On the other side of the coin, when was the last time you saw an ACC game when the defense wasn't called for a foul on the shooter even if the block was "all ball?" ACC tends to protect the shooter at all costs. SEC tends to allow more play. METRO tends to require a compound fracture or spilled blood for a foul to be called.

 

3. Officials who continue to work at officiating skills to advance to college officiating usually leave high school behind. I was an Ed Hightower disciple (Ed has called numerous NCAA Final Four games, and is a school superintendent), and he advocates that you need to stick to one level of play in basketball. This hurts high school in some ways because you lose the benefit of experience. I "peaked" early in high school and got to call a state tournament after officiating only a few years. What's next? I went on to college ball and left high school behind - by choice. I wanted another challenge... just as players and teams do who want to win.

 

Having said that, there are some excellent high school officials who continue to hone their craft and do a good job.

 

4. I attended the some of the girls quarterfinals the other night. I saw a whole lot more missed shots, passes, and defensive assignments than I saw missed calls. The officials did a good job. "Lobsided" foul numbers usually indicate aggresiveness of offense/defense than poor officiating. To be honest, there's enough things to keep in your head, and counting fouls is not one of them.

 

Folks, these men and women who officiate usually do it for a love of the game. It's not for the money. The time spent in clinics, workshops, team camps, rules meetings, scrimmages, and games is immense... and often takes away from time spent at a job, with family, and attending their own children's games or hometown's games. They do a good job.

 

I had to quit because of my work. It was always the best seat in the house, and to me it was worth the berating, name calling, and demonizing. Most officials know that going into it. Considering all the factors, I think the high school officials that the TSSAA has are among the best.

[Fox40Deaf]

I'm showing my age. I should have said "Conference USA" instead of METRO."

 

--

 

"Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators."

- Dick Vertleib

[maristep]

i truly cannot disagree that there are those who are obviously biased. it seems to me that they should admit that they would have difficulty officiating those games unbiasedly (is that a word?). unfortunately, most won't admit to that type of weakness...

[Fox40Deaf]

I'm not quite following you (or even sure what you meant say).

 

Every official in a Tennessee State tournament is going to be from Tennessee. Do you advocate getting out-of-state officials to call tournaments? And who will pay the extra expenses of mileage?

 

The TSSAA website gives these costs for schools:

2 officials, single-game: $100 ($50 per official)

3 officials, single-game: $120 ($40 per official)

 

2 officials, double-headers: $150 ($75 per official)

3 officials, double-header: $195 ($65 per official)

 

Some states pay milage. Tennessee does not. Tournaments are contracted a little differently.

 

"Bias" is a nice thing to speculate about, but it just doesn't happen, nor is it measurable. During tournaments, sometimes it's unavoidable to call a game in which you don't know the coach, some of the players, maybe you formerly lived in the town of the school, maybe it's your alma mater playing. I've had to call games with all of the above. College officiating is no different.

 

What do you suggest, Maristep? Getting officials from Russia?

 

--

 

"Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators."

- Dick Vertleib

[Guest basemom]

I agree, BUT a margin of 18 McMinn fouls to Beech's 1 foul until the last 27 seconds? I have seen many ballgames and played in some at the state level and I don't care how great a defensive team you are you cannot take control of a ballgame, like Beech did in the second half, and only have one team foul. If you do not foul at least a couple of times a half you are not playing agressively enough and Beech could have never come back from the 15 or so points down without playing agressive basketball. McMinn had too many good ball handlers and penetrated the middle too much for Beech to not foul almost the entire 2nd half.

[Knightcourt]

My major question about officials at the State Tournament is "why not send the best officials to the tournament instead of the ones who have 'put in their time'"? Don't we try to send the best teams each year? If we try to send the best teams then we need to send the best officials. Also, the officials are paid by the schools but the schools or coaches have no input or evaluation process available to them during the course of the season. I can understand it being a thankless job, but if the officials knew they were being evaluated each game, I believe they would try and give their best. If they kept getting a "bad" evauluation then the supervisor would get an idea that it is not a personality conflict but the official needs to get better. To me it is just a "good 'ol boy system" that needs to be restructured.

[jgarrison]

"Bias" is a nice thing to speculate about, but it just doesn't happen, nor is it measurable.

What world are you living in? Come and watch most of the refs in the Morristown association and you will leave with your mouth wide open of the bias calls. They are HORRIBLE!

When you are playing their favorite teams you will have as much offensive fouls as defensive. We have the tapes if you want them, but if you are associated with the TSSAA you wouldn't look at proof to prove these kinds of allegations because thats the way TSSAA is there above the law.

[Edited by jgarrison on 3-14-03 3:38P]

[Edited by jgarrison on 3-14-03 9:52P]