Officals

[maristep]

"Bias" is a nice thing to speculate about, but it just doesn't happen, nor is it measurable. During tournaments, sometimes it's unavoidable to call a game in which you don't know the coach, some of the players, maybe you formerly lived in the town of the school, maybe it's your alma mater playing. I've had to call games with all of the above. College officiating is no different.

 

i was actually replying to jgarrison, but since you had this comment, i have to say that you either contradicted yourself or we have differing definitions of the word "bias." first of all, to be bias one must really know people involved. i was not refering to knowing where the town is located or knowing that your third cousin's ex-wife's boyfriend's sister lived there 10 years ago. i mean that you are related to the coach, someone on the team or a staff member of the school. i mean that you would have to know someone personally to be considered bias. and i have to disagree with you and say that yes, there are officials out there who are bias and, unfortunately it shows sometimes. i had that experience with a team a few weeks ago at a substate game. it just happens. officials are human just like everyone else in the sport, fans included.

 

and no, i don't advocate Russian officials or out-of-state officials; i simply advocate the best, honest, non-bias officials in tennessee for the TENNESSEE state tournament.

[Edited by maristep on 3-14-03 3:55P]

 

[gesvol]

Just a question to those with knowledge of such things. How are referees evaluated in Tennessee? I've always kind of assumed that there is not much game-to-game evaluation (because I would have to think that would cost money), but I really don't know. Anybody with any info?

 

(And just my two cents, basketball is a very hard sport to officiate, and they are using part-timers, basically volunteers. I don't think you can expect a professional job, because they are not really professionals. I think for the most part they do the best that they can. And that's all you can ask for, unless we really want to put up the money for the structure, training, and pay required for professional officiating)

[doink]

One thing that everyone might not know about the State tournament officials: You will not get to referee any state tournament game that a school out of your area is playing. You will not see any middle Tennessee officials on a Jackson County game. They will be west or east Tennessee refs. That takes the bias out of the game (at the state tournament level). Do you think Memphis officials care about Jackson County or Livingston? If officiating was the "good old boy" system at the State Tournament, why do you not see the same officials every year? Changing gears, you do loose your best officials to college. But, there is some really good officials at the high school level. It is hard to go do a SEC or ACC game and get paid $1500 vs a high school game and get $65. Ask Tom Eades or Gary Maxwell!!! Gary Maxwell never did a boys state tournament!!!

[LadyTigersMom]

As this game continues to improve and get more competitive, there is a tremendous need for "quality refs." It's just not fair to the kids. I have friends who ref and I know it's a hard job and thankless for the most part, but don't take the job if you can't do it right. I am very thankful for the refs who are consistent (even if they miss calls or tend to "focus" on one specific call over another). At least the girls can figure out how to play the game with the specific calls that are being made.

 

I think everyone's biggest concern is that TSSAA needs to do a better job of hiring their officials or demanding quality job performance. Maybe if enough coaches and fans complain, they will make some changes in their system.

[tnwareagle]

I was cheering as hard as anyone for McMinn, however I can't see blaming the refs for ANY loss. The foul count was 16 against Beech and 23 against McMinn. A difference of 7 fouls. It would be very tough to keep the fouls totally equal. McMinn shot 25 foul shots missing four while Beech shot 28, missing only three. I didn't see the fouls as the difference, rather the turnovers and missed scoring opportunities. McMinn had a wonderful season, and I hated to see it end like that, but they lost to a good Beech team. Being a Bradley fan, I am sick of hearing other schools blame losses on referees. There are good and bad calls that go both ways. Although there are those that disagree, I don't think any referee CHEATS for a team. Instead of blaming refs, people should be looking at what players did wrong to lose the game. That goes for all games.

It's funny to listen to people complain about the refs, note that it is always the ones that are on the losing end that complain. It seems to be much easier to blame a ref than the team. I may disagree with several calls, but I will never blame the referees for a loss.

[Illini]

Thank you tnwareagle. Nicely said. What I am getting from this thread is that referee's cheat,don't care,and not accountable for there actions. First I do not know a referee that would cheat a kid. He may not see it the same way as you do. You see what you want, not the whole picture. Referee's do care about the kids and coaches. If they didn't care they would not be out there. Officials are very accountable for their actions. Just because you don't here about it dosn't mean someone hasn't spoke to them or called them at home about a certain game and situation. one more thing let me see last time I looked the kids play basketball 12 months a year. Most basketball officials officiate 4 months a year. You never see anything written on here about the kids mistakes or missed shots or missed freethrows. The only thing you read on here is how the ref cheated or can't call or is bias. The way I see it every call an official makes is going to make 50 percent of the people made. So quit blamming the refs and look at your team, the way they played, or didn't play. The last time I looked I have never seen a referee take a shot in a game.

[Fox40Deaf]

I officiated in several states (incl. Tennessee), and evaluating officials is usually a combination of coaches' evaluations and supervisor evaluations. Supervisors have 50-100+ officials, so you can't evaluate everyone every night. And you have to remember: the evaluation of officials is an inexact science and extremely subjective, because you're basically making decisions about other's decisions. Objective parts of evaluations deal with court presence, hustle, mechanics (how one positions him/herself on the court), attitude/presence, and knowledge of the rules. Most fans (or players, or for that matter coaches) couldn't tell you the definition of an offensive charge or a defensive block, legal guarding position, etc. Coaches know what they like and tolerate: most want consistency, hustle, and a crisp/professional look.

 

The TSSAA can provide support, rule enforcement, officiating clinics, and administration. But their staffing is extremely limited. Like one person said: officials are basically volunteers who are given a stipend for gasoline and wear and tear on their cars. It's a hobby, an avocation. You can't call enough games to make a living doing it. Even at the college level.

 

As far as quality control: I wouldn't try to hazard a guess how many officials it takes to cover the state of Tennessee on a Friday night during basketball season - if you're not careful, you can make the standards so high that you come up short in providing officials. During tournament time, some officials who are asked to call games will have to turn them down, because they can't get off work to call them. Again, you're basically working with folks who do this for a hobby.

 

In the old days, each individual school contracted their own officials. I think things are a lot better than they used to be. Just as the game has progressed, so has officiating, training, etc.

 

Hey, we're always going to yell at them, no matter what they do or how good they are. I've had instant replays back me up before... and it made no difference to the losing team. It was "the officials' fault" or "bad officiating." It seems that no one gets beaten anymore, or gets outcoached or outplayed. Human beings are wired to blame "someone else," and officials are always the most convenient ones to blame.

 

Having said that: I yell at them, too.

 

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Basketball is the second most exciting indoor sport, and the other one shouldn't have spectators. - Dick Vertleib

[jgarrison]

I have blamed poor shooting, being slow on the defense and getting beat down court and weak inside play for our losses. There have been times our girls couldn't "throw it in the ocean" as KEVB1990 puts it so well. That is not the kind of calling I am talking about. We have had some officials not blow a whistle but only twice a half and it was against us both times. We have had girls walk off the line during the free throws and the officials calling the sign for lane violation and never blow the whistle. A girl brings the ball down court with no pressure trips and falls sliding with the ball then gets up and started dribbling again with no call for travel or double dribble. These are just some of the pathetic situations that go on.

 

You can't tell me that playing the officials is not part of a coach's strategy! How many Post Players have been put on the bench because a coach has told his players to take it inside to a certain girl and draw a foul to get that player on the bench. The fact remains that refs are as big of a part of the game as the players and coaches are. Thats why we need consistency. We won a lot of our games and I still say there is bias that goes on especially in our association and a lot of schools know it.