region 5: too many teams?

[Bobvark]

2001 results

2002 results

2003results

 

above are the results for the past 3 years. Who has the time to calculate the who had the most placers and from which region?

[pokey]

Who is volunteering to go to Region 3? or to Soddy's region? What about state duals? How far should these schools travel to wrestle their region dual matches? 2hrs? 3hrs? Do all of the 23 or 24 teams consistently have full rosters? It is a problem but with no simple answer. If you think you have it bad you should check out New York, one guy from each region to district, one guy from each district to state. All 16 man (or larger) and they have a lot of wrestlers, now that is tough.

[delaWarr]

Bobvark, Thanks, but I respectfully decline. While it may appear that my comments were on behalf of Region V, they were actually on behalf of the sport state-wide. The imbalance exists in regions and areas other than V and Middle Tennessee. It is just that V is the extreme of the imbalance.

 

PapaR and texas, there is something to be said for not disrupting patterns too often. In the case of regions, rivalries develop that encourage enthusiasm within the sport, which annual changes could interrupt. Further, frequent regional changes would put the programs on the outer edges of the region zones in jeopardy of being bounced back and forth between regions from change to change. While the numbers need to be looked at and dealt with in manner that enhances the well-being of the sport, tradition, geography, distance, frequency of disruption, etc. need to be considered also.

 

Also texas, your theory that a given strong team moving into another region could possibly mean a greater share of qualifiers for the state for that team could very well be correct. But it could also mean fewer qualifiers. While some of those programs in the big region may not be competitive as teams, they may have one or two or three kids who are very competitive on the region level which, because of the numbers of those teams, can deminish the shoo-in capabilities of the more competitive teams. The strength of either view could possibly be demonstrated by plotting the successes of the lower placement competitors at the State. As partisans we tend to look at what we see our own wrestlers accomplish on a given level rather than looking with unbiased attention to the overall accomplishments of all wrestlers on that level. Using bits and pieces of the big picture to represent the entire big picture can make many a biased viewpoint seem valid. It is when we lay the real chronic problems out on the table for all to see that a step is being taken in the direction of resolving it. And it may be that what we currently have is the absolute best we can do, given consideration to all circumstance. But when the best informed minds, with an honest attitude toward fair play, unbiased by a pre-conceived notion of being treated unfairly (big regions) or by a pre-conceived notion of protectionism (smaller regions), with intent for wrestling state-wide to be best served, take on the task of coming up with a best-case plan for resolving the issue, I almost guarantee that it could be done.

 

Further, there are knowledgeable, fair-minded individuals in every region of the state (coaches) who could examine the circumstance, assess the extent of the problems, brain-storm the remedies, and come up with a plan to be presented to their own body (coaches association) for approval, then upon modification, if needed, sent on to the governing body (TSSAA) as a recommendation from the group.

 

When one group attempts to solve its own problem, the resolution of which affects another group, very emotional conflicts are a certainty. If everybody concerned has a hand in the remedy, on the other hand, then the remedy will be met with broader acceptance.

Edited January 16, 2004 by delaWarr

[Bobvark]

I know it takes over an hour to get to Tullahoma, I think that is pretty far. We are not volenteering to be in Soddy's region we are asking for a complete change in all the regions to make them equal size. See Coach G.'s post about qualifiers.

 

Or any of the other posts.

 

I agree that other states are tougher, but didn't start out tough. Rome wasn't built in a day. Tennessee wrestling has done better every year, and someday a lot of the top recruits will be from here.

 

I think the most any team should travel is an hour or less.

 

I wonder if Ronnie Carter has thought through these questions....

[CoachGonyeaSHS]

The geographical problem is also another issue. We have to travel close to 2 hours to get to Lincoln County. Bradley has to travel quite a distance to get to cookeville.

 

It's all kind of insane.

[sly]

Coach G, I have thought about what it is you're looking for and I think I figured it out. Here are the number of teams per region as it stands now:

 

R-1 13; R-2 21; R-3 10; R-4 11; R-5 23; R-6 18; R-7 18; R-8 15.

 

I suggest that we move at least 4 teams from Region 2 the southern most schools closest to McMinn Co which I think is the northern most school in Region 3. Then do the same with Region 5 moving at least 3 teams the southern most schools closest to Grundy Co. which is the northern most team of Region 4. (Coach G maybe you'll volunteer your team to move to the smaller Region 4 too?) Then you 'd have Region 2 with 17; Region 3 with 14; Region 4 with 14; Region 5 with 20. Travel could be a non issue if teams would schedule their region matches as tri or quad meets. Region 2 numbers are as close to Region 5 as any other region as is Region 3 and 4. Numbers would be closer to your liking I would suspect?

 

You ask for more qualifiers as if the wrestlers you already had place would keep the same placing in the region. While you may be correct that if you were in a smaller region you may have qualified one or two more wrestlers it is also possible if you were in Region 3 or 4 you would of had fewer champions and runner ups making their draw at the state tournament more difficult. So I disagree with your assumption that you would score more at the state.

Edited January 16, 2004 by sly

[delaWarr]

Advice: Do not create an adversarial atmosphose in attempting to resolve the problem. If you do, then you have to deal with defensive emotions before you can get to the resolution of the real problem. It will be far better to approach those others who will be affected, "Hey, we have a problem. How about helping us resolve it?"

 

If you approach in a fair and open manner, seeking a fair and open resolution, you will find fair and open individuals who will understand and comply. Guaranteed.

[texas23]

delaWarr,

 

Well thought out post. I have seen you use math on here before to support your view, and quantitatively it is sound.

 

However, in "real life" the numbers will not fall so evenly or nicely. A very strong team in either a large (23 team) or smaller (10 team) region could still dominate. Let's say a Soddy team traded places with what ever team is strongest in Region V (I don't name the team because I don't want to hear all the who is strongest stuff, it is not important to the point). Anyway, I think that the Soddy team may take more state births in Region V than it may take in the Region it now resides in.

 

I like what PapaRaptor posted, why can't the TSSAA just form the regions on a yearly basis and try to make them as equal as possible in numbers and power, along with geographically considerations? New schools don't pop up with out some advance notice, they take time to build, so no surprises there. The first time would be the most difficult, but after that the task would seem to be a little shorter and easier to complete.

 

I know this is a simple answer and does not and will not fit every teams need, as you pointed out in you post.

 

Just a little more chum for the fish to feed on.

 

Again, great post delaWarr.

delaWarr,

 

Good post and great comments.

 

However,

 

my post was meant to say that a strong team from that region would NOT have a greater chance of advancing more wrestlers, but less. I believe if you re-read it you may come to that meaning. If not, I apoligize for doing a poor job of constructing a sentence that relected my thoughts.

 

Also, I advocate that you have patience and leave things as they currently are, it is better for all those teams in Region V in my view. By better, I meant the chance to advance those wrestlers today.

 

Now, I have a opinion on what Coach G says regarding being in the same region with Cleveland and Bradley. You may be correct on fighting for the 3 and 4 places, but what happens to the 3 and 4 places you had in region V.? They may not place at all. So, you may take less to state. Then you seeding will be less favorable than you were use to from region V.

 

 

 

Just a view.

[CoachGonyeaSHS]

As I have stated before, I will move to any region in the state. I believe that if we move to another region, it would force us to rise to the occasion. I think with Franklin doing as well as they have the last two years, they are forcing several of our teams to rise to that level. Once again, only helping the sport.....

 

As far as the numbers I stated, they were strictly mathematical.

 

But you know what, every time I offer a suggestion here in the state, I get accused of not being happy with the status quo. I really just need to keep my mouth shut....

 

 

Coach Gonyea

[Likeachamp171]

The number of teams in each region only effects the state duals tournament, in my opinion. I don't know if it's ever happened before, but I've never heard of all 4 qualifiers in the same weight class from one region placing at state. And even then there are still 2 more spots to be won for a medalist. The best wrestler wins, and the wrestlers place. That's the bottom line in the individual tournament. The problem with excessive teams in one region really only matters in the state duals when only one team goes from each. Then you have Cleveland losing to Brandley and Red Bank to Soddy Daisy, and some teams that deserve to be in the top 8 never get an opportunity to prove it. So all of the posts about state placers or qualifiers from each region aren't really significant to the matter, but that's just my opinion.

[best_of_the_west]

You make a good point. It doesn't really affect the individual tournament, which is set up much better than the duals tournament.

[CoachGonyeaSHS]

Likeachamp,

 

Thanks for your input...however, it does make a difference in the regional tournament for individuals. There are some really good wrestlers from our region who don't make it to state, but maybe in another region just might qualify. Realize that overall team score make-up at the state tournament is not just composed of medalists. Several wrestlers represent their team and maybe add some points on the board. If you look at the tight race between 5-20 place, the few points add up.

 

I am speaking from a perspective of a coach who is trying to build a program, and it sure makes it easier to draw kids into a program if I can tell them that we are a top ten team in the state. It's all about promotion and marketing. Kids want to be part of a successful program...It's only natural....

 

But when it is all said and done...I agree that the best wrestlers will rise to the top. And I really don't think in the long run it will keep me from meeting my goals...

 

(like a champ, this is not aimed at you....this is for everyone who reads this)

I am not, and repeat, am not looking for an excuse for my team... just striking up conversation.