Stalling - How subjective is it?

[noonesfool]

No he did not and he shook B"s hand .Classy all the way around.

[reftn]

Ya know, I have parents, other officials come to me the next day, asking about such stalling questions as this post.

 

The entire last period of the match, the penalized wrestler danced, blocked, avoided contact. Gave two half shots, tied up the other wrestler. When the other wrestler shot with the .01 seconds left and blocked again, he was hit for stalling.

 

Or was it.....

 

The penalized wrestler fought to finally tie up the score. He worked against his opponent's resisting but relented until he finally got the final escape to tie up the score. With .01 left and nothing to lose, he stood exhausted as his opponent shot at his ankle. Defending his legs he steps back and is hit for stalling.

 

Ok, which paradim do you wish to go with? Given the information in the post, either of these are possible.

 

I dont want more information on that particular match.

 

If I am defending a lead in such a situation, and have been warned for stalling already, I better shoot or at least move forward. From what I understand from the initial post, it sounds like a difference in coaching, than bad officiating?

 

Tell me which wrestler is better coached.

 

reftn

[BuckLateral]

Reftn:

 

I saw the match in question and it was really neither of the two situations you describe--------it was more in between. I know you don't want information on that particular match but it doesn't really fit into either of your scenarios. More of a third "paradim" for your expert consideration.

 

As I recall, the match was one in which both wrestlers had the lead at various times---------the final score in regulation was 12-12. It was not a situation where the penalized wrestler had an early lead and danced around to protect it. In fact, at one point early in the match it looked as if he was going to be pinned and the penalized wrestler was the one who fought back against an early deficit. All of the action leading up the stalling call took place near the end of the third period. As I recall the penalized wrestler got a two point lead in the third period. There was some wrestling around following that, maybe a couple of instances of going out of bounds. The penalized wrestler gave up an escape as the wrestlers were going out of bounds with less that one second left. The ref brought them back to center. Frankly, both wrestlers looked exhausted. The wrestler behind at the time dove for the legs/ankles of the penalized wrestler, who jumped back to defend his legs and avoid the desperation shot, when he was hit with a point for stalling.

 

What followed after that, in the overtime period, was probably even more exasperating for the penalized wrestler and his coaches and fans---------and leads to yet another topic. As the overtime period started, the wrestler who had just been penalized for 'stalling' was the one who shot first and took the other wrestler down to the mat, near the edge, almost immediately. The ref signaled two points for the penalized wrestler as the two kids hit the mat, then waved it off as the kids continued to grapple--------------my recollection is that he actually did this twice in quick succession------------then finally gave two points to the other kid and the match was over. For fans this is something akin to the umpire calling a runner safe then changing his mind and waving him out, or the infamous complete, no its imcomplete, signal from a football ref. The explanation I have heard was that the first takedown call(s) was "premature".

 

What is a "premature" takedown ? I have seen this happen before and it is one of the most exasperating things for a fan, particularly a parent, to see the signal go up that a wrestler has scored a point only to have it taken away. Can you shed any light on this subject---------i.e. what is the right procedure here for the ref? Should he have hit the signal quick, as happened in this situation, which raises the possibility of it being "premature' or, if in doubt, should you wait, which I guess then raises the possibilty of a kid losing a takedown he has.

 

Thanks for your input.

[reftn]

Sounds like the kind of match that has real fan appeal! Sorry I missed it.

 

At this point in time, a moment of silence for all of us officials that have made the dreaded "premature" takedown, escape, etc. and taken it back in order to get it right. Hopefully we did.

 

So much depends on the feel here and the look. The look is always 50-50, depending on which side of the gym you are sitting in. The feel is something else and you must be within two feet of the wrestlers to get that.

 

Your situation is tough to call in person, much less third party on a chat board a week later.

 

I cannot possibly know what this particular official saw that made him reverse his call, but it must have been something. That is the last thing an official wants to do.

I have been there, I have done it. I dont like it ever, but want to get it right.

 

"I blew it." Thats about as bad as it gets for an official. But it happens and once is too often.

 

Sudden death is an odd one too. Sudden death, bang, thats it. If you had control for a split second its over. Only if you take him directly to his back does the match continue. The only way to lose it then is flagrant misconduct while still in the confines of that match.

 

I havent answered you very well, so maybe I blew this one.

 

reftn

[Sommers]

Sounds like the kind of match that has real fan appeal! Sorry I missed it.

 

At this point in time, a moment of silence for all of us officials that have made the dreaded "premature" takedown, escape, etc. and taken it back in order to get it right. Hopefully we did.

 

So much depends on the feel here and the look. The look is always 50-50, depending on which side of the gym you are sitting in. The feel is something else and you must be within two feet of the wrestlers to get that.

 

Your situation is tough to call in person, much less third party on a chat board a week later.

 

I cannot possibly know what this particular official saw that made him reverse his call, but it must have been something. That is the last thing an official wants to do.

I have been there, I have done it. I dont like it ever, but want to get it right.

 

"I blew it." Thats about as bad as it gets for an official. But it happens and once is too often.

 

Sudden death is an odd one too. Sudden death, bang, thats it. If you had control for a split second its over. Only if you take him directly to his back does the match continue. The only way to lose it then is flagrant misconduct while still in the confines of that match.

 

I havent answered you very well, so maybe I blew this one.

 

reftn

On the positive side:

 

This is one fine example of how hard this really is and why we need the best out there. We're fortunate to have those out there willing to donate their time and learn the rules of this sport so so well.

 

This series of posts reminds me of why officiating was so hard for me to do for only one season and I got out, and I must emphasize the respect we should all show these fine fellows.

 

Once again, even though I said I was done, I'm posting this on the "good-bad refs" thread and truly be done with it...

I must appoligize for any unecessary concern I have caused any or all wrestling officials in this great state.

 

Thanks for all you do for so little.

 

soms