DIV II Brackets Posted!

[rawn]

Johnson has a win Over Sherbakoff so why would he be seeded after him?

[sly]

Just for clarification: Does anyone know for certain whether the wrestler in the third seeded slot in 103 was seeded there or drawn in? All that I have read seems to operate with the knowledge or under the assumption that he was seeded there. I may have missed something along the way.

delawarr, I too didn't understand until Karelin pointed out that the TSSAA web site explains the seeds. It looks like he has a valid agruement.

 

Rawn, The real question is why is Johnson or Sherbakoff seeded at all?

[rawn]

I do see Karlelins point now, But with only 12 wrestlers you have to put them somewhere. I believe the best wrestler will win regardless, in this bracket.

[karelin]

Sly,

All attempts have fallen on deaf ears.

 

Rawn-I'll say it one more time, it doesn't matter who you beat, if you don't beat a medalist you can't be seeded, and if you beat a medalist you take his spot in the seed.(until this year)

 

Nothing much more can be said or done. Time to rumble.

[texas23]

I think that karelin's issue with the bracket is bigger than just this weight class. It could have team score implications that may effect the outcome of the standings by the end of the tournament.

 

But I am not sure that is the battle he is fighting here. It may be even more noble than that.

[rawn]

Best of luck to you KARELIN.

[bnroo]

Karelin

 

so if you don't have a medalist in a paticular weight

noone gets seeded?

surely

you should have a method of seeding

if there is only one medal winner in a wt.

isnt that the case at 103

do you want the best gentleman to wrestle in the first round?

adamson beat Hoang he gets seeded right?

all others should have a blind draw?

yikes

Edited February 18, 2004 by bnroo

[BOBJONES1983]

Karelin

 

so if you don't have a medalist in a paticular weight

noone gets seeded?

surely

you should have a method of seeding

if there is only one medal winner in a wt.

isnt that the case at 103

do you want the best gentleman to wrestle in the first round?

adamson beat Hoang he gets seeded right?

all others should have a blind draw?

yikes

I remember back a few years, 1998 I believe, when Phillip Simpson was a freshman. He was in the 103 weight class, along with Eric Mcnamee (FR), Jeff Geismer (Bay), Daniel Smith (Webb) all tough wrestlers who were either eventual state finalists, champions or at least third placers. The whole weight class was a blind draw. Simpson drew Mcnamee first round then he drew (eventual 3 time state champion) Geismer second round and barely won that one on a real questionable shot off the whistle. Geismer could have been the 4-timer and Simpson only a 3-timer. Then he had Smith (eventual state runner-up) in the semis. His easiest match of the torunament was in the finals where he pinned an MUS kid (Hinson) in 1:15. That shows you that it can happen especially under the magnificent guidlines of the TSSAA!

[WingIt]

What I don't understand is that the same situation exist at 103 and 119 and they seeded them totally different.

I think (no I don't think I know) the TSSAA looked at the Name (Simpson) on the bracket at 119 and disregarded their own rules.

[fatboy1o3]

BOBJONES1983-

No way Simpson would have ever let Geismar be a four timer. His senior year he would have chased him down if he had too. And do not tell me Geismar would have beaten him because Simpson spanked him at the McCallie Invitational that year.

[BOBJONES1983]

BOBJONES1983-

No way Simpson would have ever let Geismar be a four timer. His senior year he would have chased him down if he had too. And do not tell me Geismar would have beaten him because Simpson spanked him at the McCallie Invitational that year.

Maybe so but that was not the point of my post. The point was that that year was an example of how the guidlines under which the TSSAA seeded the tourny had the three best wrestlers wrestling against each other in the first two rounds of the tournament because it was a blind draw. This looks too be the case this year in the DI - 119 bracket as Cordell, Fuller and Speroff (minus Ibriham) are going to be wrestling each other in the first two rounds of the tourny. The point is their (the TSSAA) seeding methods aren't good for the sport in either division and then in DII they are never consistent too much politiking going on and too many of their own guidlines not being followed.

[silverpie]

The basic problem is that the seeding criteria are designed to compare exactly two wrestlers, and they do so intransitively. In other words, Young>Geismar, Geismar>Simpson, but Simpson>Young. Thus, reasonable people can come to different conclusions about how to resolve the dilemma.

 

Here's my suggestion for a more precise specification:

(1) Identify what wrestlers will be seeded, without considering the order. Start with (a) all medalists, then ( all wrestlers with a head-to-head over any medalist, then © a head-to-head over a seed from b, and so on.

(2) Within those, determine the winner of each pairing. Head-to-head applies first. If it's tied other than 0-0, consider the types of win, going down dual-meet criteria 2-4 (sixes > techs > majors > regulars). If that's also tied, the last result goes; if they never met, compare medals; if even that fails, the pairing is a draw.

(3) Whoever wins the most pairings gets the #1 seed, etc. (A draw is half a win.) Break ties by head-to-head (say two wrestlers have two wins and two have just one; the winner between the first two is seeded #1). Further ties are broken by comparing medals; if even that doesn't work, draw for the lines.

 

Edited to turn off smilies.

Edited February 19, 2004 by silverpie