BobCorker

Honest question: Are you age 13 or younger?

Based on your text: You don't find it strange that in early Sept Knox was trying to set up something for next year. Because that is how scheduling works... you plan a year out. And then, all of the sudden, two days after the Prince of Cleveland/Blackman drops a match, then Knox asks for dates? Comes off as pretty petty to me.. Looks like Knox didn't respond to a text request for a dual in 2020... Maybe those two just don't get along? This might be reminiscent of Baylor/Bradley not wrestling for a decade back in the 2000s Please share why Cleveland decided to back out of the LHP dual on Jan 6th.

Coincidence that Max Norman beat their superstar on Sept 23rd in their gym and then Coach Knox asks them to get a dual two days later? Sounds like Knox was a little butt hurt. Isn't that a little late to be changing the schedule when they have flights booked for their out of state travel? I suspect there is a lot more to the story than a text at the end of Sept. Also, what happened to the Cleveland vs Lake Highland Prep dual that was on Cleveland's schedule they released this year?

All about match ups. Father Ryan by 10 over Baylor. McCallie over Father Ryan by 15.

Baylor has dualed Blair 3 or 4 times recently. They always get handled but they keep going back for more. I think they know what they are getting into... They went up to Blair's home gym a few years ago and won 1 match. Perhaps they are masochist or perhaps they just like wrestling good teams. They went 4-1 at this event last year including a win over the PA team. Baylor seems to be down this year and the tournament is harder, so I wouldn't expect them to replicate that record. At least they are wrestling other prep teams. Makes for some good individual match ups. It is amazing how many good teams are having a hard time filling their lineup. I think high school should have switched to 12 weights. Duals would be faster and there would be less forfeits. 14 is way too many for high school.

Very interesting... Last year they got 4th and got smoked by Father Ryan and UC the two previous years. Maybe they came back from PA a little wounded? Looks like they are taking a page out of Cornell's book and protecting their SE ranking... Do they drop in the polls since they are literally changing their schedule to avoid good competition?

Father Ryan is still the hands down favorite to win DII once they get Tran back. It will be close between them and McCallie because of matchups, but Father Ryan will get their lineup set before too long!

They also refused to shake hands with the Brentwood coaching staff...

Buford also missing their heavyweight and their 132 (McArthur). Looks like they sent 3/4th of a team. Cleveland should win this tournament since they have 4 in the semis and as their coach says "tournaments are won on the backside". I expect them to place all 15!

Social media would lead one to believe an antithetical viewpoint. I don't know if anyone crows more about their ranking than Cleveland. Every time a poll comes out where they are ranked #1 in an arbitrary list, they rush to social media to post. Heck, their head coach was on the SE facebook page last week complaining about how his team isn't ranked high enough. Not a flattering look... Cleveland hasn't wrestled a top 25 team since 2017. It's pretty easy to understand why they stopped traveling out of state after this one... Now we do need to give them credit for this year's schedule. They should see where they stand after this season. Please don't take this as a knock on their wrestlers. Cleveland wrestlers are good and they work hard. Jake Baker (Wyoming Seminary) over Jackson Bradford (Cleveland) (Fall 0:00) Drew Munch (Wyoming Seminary) over Burns Meagher (Cleveland) (Fall 2:00) Lincoln Heck (Wyoming Seminary) over Bryce Pond (Cleveland) (MD 18-4) Mosha Schwartz (Wyoming Seminary) over Jayce Mullin (Cleveland) (Fall 0:00) Clay Murabito (Wyoming Seminary) over Michael Whiteside (Cleveland) (Fall 2:00) Jacob Zuller (Wyoming Seminary) over Cody Mathews (Cleveland) (Fall 4:00) Gavin Mitchener (Wyoming Seminary) over Austin Sweeney (Cleveland) (Fall 4:00) Max DeRosier (Wyoming Seminary) over Zach Brezna (Cleveland) (Fall 0:00) Darwin Hull (Wyoming Seminary) over Dylan Jones (Cleveland) (Dec 8-3) Kyle Costello (Wyoming Seminary) over Robert Hicks (Cleveland) (Fall 4:00) Bena Senatus (Wyoming Seminary) over Isaah Perez (Cleveland) (Fall 2:00) Bena Senatus (Wyoming Seminary) over Logan Strickland (Cleveland) (Fall 2:00) Nick Martino (Wyoming Seminary) over Titus Swafford (Cleveland) (Fall 0:00) Jake Baker (Wyoming Seminary) over Trae McDaniel (Cleveland) (Dec 3-0) Team Score: 76-0

McCallie brought back all of their team from last year too. Now with McCallie beating Baylor in the football state championship last night, it might take until January before McCallie and Baylor get their lineup together.

Should be a good year filled with a lot of parity! As Coach Yost said in his State of the Program, TN better watch out! I suspect we see McCallie, Father Ryan, Baylor, and Lakeway battle it out for a state championship in DII. This may be Coach DeAngelo's best team he has ever had. I wouldn't be surprised if they won it this year. Or McCallie. I don't think there will be a dominate team in DII. Cleveland looks to be the class of public schools this year.

It's pretty simple SportsTNFan. All you have to do is go to a school website and fill out an inquiry form. https://montgomerybell.myschoolapp.com/page/admissions/inquire-online?siteId=655&ssl=1 https://share.hsforms.com/19XPnOUstQbKowgDrE-O5Nw1sc8s https://www.baylorschool.org/admission/inquire https://portals.veracross.com/webb/form/inquiry/General Inquiry https://www.fatherryan.org/admissions/apply

So Father Ryan High School is made up of kids who went to a variety of middle schools from all over a city of 2 million people... Why is cgb so angry?

Gotcha. So I have been conflating the Nashville Catholic Club with the Father Ryan Middle School. Where do the Nashville Catholic Club kids go to middle school?

So Father Ryan's middle school cost $300 and MBA, Baylor, and McCallie charge $30,000 to be on their middle school team. And you really have to ask the question on why Father Ryan has a better middle school team? Sadly the private middle schools have priced themselves out of having a good team... Back in the 90s it cost about $4000 to attend a private middle school. McCallie picked up the real crop of talent this year. Word is Yost is feeling the burn and went and got himself about 12 hammers.

I would be willing to bet that Baylor High School has more kids from their middle school than Father Ryan has from their middle school... Father Ryan has the best recruiting set up in the state. They don't have a middle school so they just recruit the largest city in the state for kids like Tran and then charge them $50 to join their middle school team. What a pipeline! I bet if MBA, Baylor, and McCallie only charged $50 for middle school tuition they have great middle school clubs too! The few kids Baylor picked up won't make a difference this year. They may have won 5 straight titles, but it looks like a rebuilding year for the Red Raiders. Calling it now. McCallie wins their first title since 1993. Father Ryan takes 2nd followed by Lakeway and then Baylor in 4th or 5th.

To reduce a coach’s responsibility down to just winning/losing state titles seems to be a very shallow definition of coaching. I suspect those of us who view from the stands only see a tenth of what makes a good coach a good coach. Do they build a culture of academic excellence? Do they take in kids who need additional support? Do they build relationships with businesses in their communities and foster community service opportunities? Do they personify character and sportsmanship? Do they have lasting relationships with their athletes years after said athletes have left their community? I suspect we will never know enough to answer these questions objectively. From an outside observer’s perspective, there are only a handful of programs/coaches that seem to support their wrestlers year-round. To rank them would be too subjective. Cleveland is at every major tournament in the offseason. Now they admittedly never wrestle anyone with a pulse during the season; I suspect this is to protect their brand. In the offseason, they go to every major event (GFC, Fargo, US Open, Super 32, NHSCAs, Elite 8) and Knox and company are always there. They go to every local event and Knox and the staff are there. Who cares where/how they get their money… they make it happen. Anyone else is free to do the same hard work and build their own program. Who can blame kids like the Fowlers, Boyd, High, Davis, Roller, Szymborski, Enest, Lundy, etc. for moving into the school district? It is a free country. Families are allowed to move if they think it will benefit their kids. Anyone who can’t admit this program works their butt off is just jealous. Kids would not move from around the country if the program wasn’t working hard. One of the top 10 programs in the SE. Christian Brothers is everywhere. Coach Harrison is incredibly underrated, IMO. He should be near the top of this list. He and his staff travel during the season more than any program besides Baylor. He is at every out-of-season tournament including Fargo, Super 32, GFC, Cadet/Jr Duals, etc. Coach Harrison would be very hard to beat if his program were anywhere other than Memphis. Baylor seems to travel out-of-state just about every weekend of the high school season here recently. Their coaching staff looks to be present at GFC, Super 32, Fargo, Vegas, Cadet/Jr Duals, and every local club tournament. It seems they have placers/finalists at just about every event. It must be working in some capacity because no other program has sent wrestlers to such a wide array of colleges in the past decade. They must be blessed with a great travel budget, but it looks like they only have one or two coaches on staff. I have been told that Kendle teaches AP chemistry on top of coaching. Summit is the other program that seems to be everywhere. Pete and his staff are at GFC, Super 32, Cadet/Jr duals, and Fargo. This past in-season they picked up their travel considerably. What Pete and the staff have done has been incredible. I hope we get to see him take over the Cleveland program one day. As addressed in an earlier thread, I am still not buying the McCallie admin issue. McCallie often shows up to a tournament with 8 or 9 coaches and leaves with 1 medalist. I have been told that Yost doesn't teach and only coaches. What does the program expect the admin to do? Father Ryan, Bradley, Signal Mt, DB, Brentwood, Wilson Central and many other programs are doing a fine job but seem to only focus on TN stuff. Coach Winesburg seems fired up and ready to travel the country, but he doesn’t have the horses in the barn yet. The state is certainly on the rise, but we need more than 4 programs to be committed to travel and year-round wrestling. Having clubs like YoungGuns and Minions will help kids from less committed programs travel and receive out-of-season coaching. I think we will see TN produce college-ready talent in the next 10 years. 25 years from now they will be on the level of the Midwest.

Chittum may win a title next year. But just because one kid got locked in a barn for a decade and came out really good at wrestling doesn't mean the state as a whole has gotten better. I still stand by my point: TN is light-years away

I think it is pretty well known that there are a plethora of factors involved in being an AA. Not limited to: staying injury free, balancing college social life and staying on task once parents are not there to hold their hand, being able to pass college classes, having the athletic ability to keep up at the next level, not getting stuck behind an AA, not getting home sick, having a good support system, and being really good at wrestling. My point is that all those issues apply to kids from, let's say, Missouri, too. Yet their state puts 4-5 kids on the podium each year and doesn't have 15 year dry spells.

They are all certainly talented enough, but that is the same narrative the whole state has been saying for the last 25 years. Everyone always points to a few superstars who will carry the torch, but it never actually happens for whatever reason.

devil's advocate viewpoint: Tennessee has not produced a D1 college All-American since 2008. 15 years. Japan has produced more D1 All-Americans than Tennessee Tennessee is still light-years away

I find it hard to believe that McCallie just stopped supporting wrestling. My guess would be that is a combination of multiple factors. They were probably getting a high volume of football players who applied due to the success of their program, so that probably did eat up a lot of aid. (It will be interesting to see if Baylor’s recent success in football has an impact on their other programs.) However, based on their respective websites it looks like McCallie and MBA offer 15 varsity sports and Baylor offers 27. With Baylor having to provide aid to all the girl’s programs as well, it seems that McCallie would be able to provide aid for each of their 15 programs. Unless they just got tired of Yost? Why wouldn't they just fire him instead of sabotaging their program? Seems strange... If you look at the success of Baylor, MBA, and McCallie over the last 30 years across all sports you will see a cyclical pattern of success. Individual programs are often driven by one or two successful athletes whose families can help build around. Like anything, once a program starts to have success it sells itself. The fact that Baylor wrestling has had more success on the state and national level for the last 20 years has probably led to more people applying. Father Ryan has probably been the most consistent program in the state for the last 50 years. That is likely due to their coaching consistency, strong club presence in a huge city, and their relatively cheap tuition. Cleveland has done such a good job of developing their youth program that you now have kids from all over the state moving there at a young age. Bosken is probably single handedly responsible for the median home value increasing in their school district. The county commissioner should slip him a check every now and then. In every case it is an example of “build it and they will come”. I say, good for them. As for what percentage of each roster receives aid, I have zero clue. I have met families at all the private schools over the last 30 years and there are many of them who have been incredibly successful in their professional lives. Many of these wrestlers have parents who are dentists, doctors, attorneys, sell/develop commercial real estate, businessmen, tech entrepreneurs. Aid is awarded on a sliding scale, based on need, so the range that people pay can be from a couple thousand – the sticker price. My guess is that each school has a roster that is made up of kids from a multitude of socioeconomic backgrounds. None of these schools specialize in just one sport, so I imagine that aid is fairly evenly distributed among sports. These schools need tuition to pay their bills; they receive zero government tax money. They simply cannot afford to give every single kid who applies their full aid.

You think that McCallie, MBA, and Baylor are any different? Tuition has more than doubled since 1993 and has changed the landscape of private schools/colleges in the US. Working class families are being eliminated from the equation. Cost Analysis Let’s say that a family doesn’t receive or qualify for aid at any school. Pretend that each program identifies a 5th grade kid as having talent and someone who they want to invest their time and energy into developing. Which is a bit of a ridiculous statement in itself. If each program wanted to bring them in under their umbrella and start developing from middle school though high school, how much would it cost said family? Father Ryan NWC fees for 6th-8th= unknown, but let’s assume 1k per year. $3000 Father Ryan tuition 9-12th: $22,100 x 4 = $88, 400 Total = $91,400 McCallie 6-12th grade= 7 years x $32,880 Total = $230,160 Baylor 6-12th grade= 7 years x $28,310 Total = $198,170 MBA 6-12th grade= 7 years x $ 33,500 Total = $234,500

Again, from the TSSAA handbook. (copied below) The TSSAA restricts the amount of aid. Each family must turn in their tax information and send it to the TSSAA. They determine how much aid each school gets. It may surprise you, but most kids at McCallie and Baylor pay close to the full price. It may be better to think of each school as a business that offers a product of education and sports. If they gave every kid a major discount, then how would they pay their bills? Who would pay their teachers? TN private school are unique in this aspect as most private schools do not belong to their state organization. McCallie has around 1000 boys in their high school but roughly 300 in the middle school. Baylor has about 150 boys in their middle school. Both schools relay on about 600-800 kids to "move in" in order to meet their enrollment needs in high school. They must offer a really good product or families are not going to pay. Or even send their 15 year old off to live on a high school campus. Have any of you had 14/15 year olds? How many had kids ready to go live by themselves in a dorm at age 14? Every school has advantages and disadvantages. Father Ryan has a club that cost very little that draws kids from a metro area of 2 million people. They have had a stranglehold on the youth talent of that city for 40 years. That seems like a pretty good pipeline of talent. Then that talent can go to Father Ryan for a fraction of the cost of McCallie. McCallie has to charge $33,000 to their middle school wrestlers before they start to develop them. That is a pretty step price tag for middle school. Would Father Ryan be as successful if their school was located in Lewisburg, TN and not downtown Nashville? TSSAA Handbook: Section 16 Financial aid may be awarded on the basis of need, but proof of such need must be filed in the TSSAA office on forms approved by the Executive Director. In order to determine the basis for need, all schools awarding financial aid shall use one of the following services: FACTS Grant and Aid Assessment (FACTS), Financial Aid for School Tuition (FAST), School and Student Scholastic Service for Financial Aid (SSS), Family Financial Needs Assessment (FFNA), Private School Aid Services, Blackbaud Tuition Management, or Tuition Aid Data Services (TADS). Schools must choose one of the companies for all student-athletes. A committee consisting of School Heads from Division II schools and one ex-officio, non-voting member from the Board of Control and Legislative Council will meet and make recommendations to the Board of Control on each student submitted. In addition, this committee will collect information from schools regarding financial aid statistics, grant procedures, and the overall financial aid program within the school. The Board of Control will then rule on all cases at the August meeting. The Board of Control shall have authority to reject the basis of need for students when in its opinion, or in the opinion of the school committee, the amount of need stated by the financial service cannot be justified.