Is the new multiplier rule working

[BUC4LIFE]

tns,

 

Your case is very A-typical. Most small private k-12 schools have a huge percentage of students who stay from elementary on. The one that I am most familiar with rarely takes any new students in high school, and with the exception of 6th grade (the grade at which several students always transfer to the large prep schools in town) takes very few students in middle school either. The same is true of our athletic teams...the vast majority of kids on all of our teams are lifers. While I can't speak for all privates, I am pretty sure that we are the norm and your school/class the exception.

 

Coach, I think he said he was in his 30's, so he attended Friendship a long time ago. I'm sure things are different there today and they would be very similar to other private schools here in Chattanooga. I like the term "lifer's" though, we sure have a lot of them.

[tnsddeveloper]

tns,

 

Your case is very A-typical. Most small private k-12 schools have a huge percentage of students who stay from elementary on. The one that I am most familiar with rarely takes any new students in high school, and with the exception of 6th grade (the grade at which several students always transfer to the large prep schools in town) takes very few students in middle school either. The same is true of our athletic teams...the vast majority of kids on all of our teams are lifers. While I can't speak for all privates, I am pretty sure that we are the norm and your school/class the exception.

 

Actually, I have very close family connections at three (besides FCS) of the more successful privates in the Nashville area.

 

One is a coach at a very successful private - as of last weekend, he says that the vast majority of his kids are kids that transfer in from other school zones in junior high - he estimated about 65% of his players do this.

 

A very close relative attends a different private in town. That relative just began middle school. She estimates that about half of the kids in her class now did NOT attend that private last year. Most are transfers from other Davidson Co. zones. In speaking with a high school friend of mine that coaches the basketball team there - more than 50% of his players are transfers too.

 

A third relative attends another private in Davidson Co and is a lifer at that school (as is the previous one in middle school). He estimates that about half of the kids in his class are middle school/junior high transfers too.

 

Just so happens that last weekend was a Christmas get together and this was a topic of conversation. However, it seems like it might be that Chattanooga privates have atypical experiences from the Nashville privates.

 

The schools I'm talking about are FCS, DCA, Ezell, and Goodpasture.

[lazarus]

"Are you saying public schools can't kick kids out?"

 

for all practical purposes, no.

while there is a level of behavior that will draw an expulsion,

if they havent done something worthy of jail

they just go to another public, which has to take them.

i believe most of us about break even on chronic behavior problems.

[BUC4LIFE]

"Are you saying public schools can't kick kids out?"

 

for all practical purposes, no.

while there is a level of behavior that will draw an expulsion,

if they havent done something worthy of jail

they just go to another public, which has to take them.

i believe most of us about break even on chronic behavior problems.

 

I agree with breaking even. Sometimes those kids that get an expulsion from a public school end up in a private school. Not often, very rare, but it happens.

 

I think most school administration's or the coaches (if it's an on field problem) do a good job in handling those problems. Many times athletics is what a problem child needs to help straighten out their life. Again, I think there are many great coaches in both public and private schools that do a good job with that.

 

Maybe I'm missing the point. I don't think the beef about the private schools is the dicsipline thing. I will admit that I think private schools has much less disciplinary problems that most public High Schools. The thing that I've read on these boards is about recruiting, which we do not do, nor is anyone else supposed to do in D1. My point is if someone knows something that's going on like that they should take it to the TSSAA. If it is true in any situation, it hurts us all.

 

One thing that happens in most all the private D1 schools is they have kids who can not afford to go to school there and because they get financial aid, they can not play sports. That is sad for that kid, but I know is the only thing the TSSAA could have done to seperate the "recruiting schools" DII and the "non recruiting schools" DI.

 

I also understand that the population base is larger for the privates. I also know that kids go to the Christian schools for much more important things than football. I just was very naive about the hatred for the private schools by some in the public schools. I think a total split is the only answere. Then the publics can turn on each other and try to figure out what to do with Alcoa and Tyner etc etc. At least it won't be us.

[TalentWinsGames]

TWG...please see post #177 for my question. You throw out stuff as if it is fact. I was interested in hearing your side of it. You state rather confidently that they go out and get them. Please explain how you come to that conclusion.

We have two students (twins) who moved to the school in which I coach. They came from inner-city Nashville. Both students were outstanding middle school players for their team. One lead the city in rushing his eighth grade year. He told me that Goodpasture had contacted him about attending their school. This kid is very intelligent so he could pass at Goodpasture. I look forward to seeing how this kid fills out over the next three years and feel lucky that both of them moved here. They are incredible kids and very athletic.

I played against Boyd throughout high school. One of the best lineman John David Smith lived in Whitwell, TN. About 45 minutes to an hour away from Boyd. How did he just decide to go there? He did not attend Boyd in elementary school. Those are just two examples. I'm sure that they are not the only two examples that I could give you.

Here's one more, today, I was Christmas shopping. I saw an advertisement for Clarksville Academy. It was a billboard and on it were three pictures: Two pictures of students in the classroom, the other a big picture of a Basketball player shooting the ball. The B-ball picture was massive in comparison to the students in the classroom. How is that not recruiting? Can public schools get away with that?

Edited December 19, 2005 by TalentWinsGames

[TalentWinsGames]

I agree with most of your post. There definately needs to be a change. I think a Total Split is the othly way to fix the system. I was totaly naive about how at least some felt about playing private schools until I started reading Coach T. It has opened my eyes. A total split is the ONLY solution.

I would say that there has already been a move by the TSSAA years ago to put the schools that recruit DII in their own division. I can understand that a school of 300 (Brentwood) beating a school of 2000 (Riverdale) that something is fishy.

What I still don't understand is how a school in D1 that does not recruit and that does not give financial aid to athletes has an advantage over any other public school of similar size. I don't understand the largest multiplier in the country being imposed on those schools.

Someone posted about the Puplic schools domination (Trousdale 6 state titles, Alcoa, Riverdale and others) over the years. When the private schools had a few successful years (Boyd, DCA, CPA) each winning 1 title each over the prior 3 years to me seems an overreaction by the TSSAA to impose the 1.8 multiplier.

I will say though if more people feel like some who post on here about "having" to play the private schools then I personally would rather just split. I think it is the ONLY solution.

I agree with you that a split seems the only way to please everyone. I have a problem with a few public schools you mentioned as well. I feel Riverdale brings players in just as much as private schools (i.e. the Locke kid they brought in as a senior transfer this year). My solution is to not regulate recruiting. That way no one can complain of recruiting period. But, a split is definitely where the TSSAA is headed.

Also, I agree that the multiplier is a bit harsh to most private schools. I think it is unfair to put Boyd in 2-A, especially with the road to the state the way it is. But, it is also unfair to the majority of private schools. However, I do not speak of recruiting in a sense of going to a kid's home and making him offer to attend a certain school. There are other ways in which private schools can afford to get their name out, when public schools are not allowed to advertise certain aspects of their institution. Therefore, two options would alleviate the problem: total split or no regulations on recruiting.

[BUC4LIFE]

We have two students (twins) who moved to the school in which I coach. They came from inner-city Nashville. Both students were outstanding middle school players for their team. One lead the city in rushing his eighth grade year. He told me that Goodpasture had contacted him about attending their school. This kid is very intelligent so he could pass at Goodpasture. I look forward to seeing how this kid fills out over the next three years and feel lucky that both of them moved here. They are incredible kids and very athletic.

I played against Boyd throughout high school. One of the best lineman John David Smith lived in Whitwell, TN. About 45 minutes to an hour away from Boyd. How did he just decide to go there? He did not attend Boyd in elementary school. Those are just two examples. I'm sure that they are not the only two examples that I could give you.

Here's one more, today, I was Christmas shopping. I saw an advertisement for Clarksville Academy. It was a billboard and on it were three pictures: Two pictures of students in the classroom, the other a big picture of a Basketball player shooting the ball. The B-ball picture was massive in comparison to the students in the classroom. How is that not recruiting? Can public schools get away with that?

 

I can not speak about the kid who "said" Goodpasture contacted him. I can tell you that Boyd has kids from 57 zip codes. Not recruited but who come to school to receive a Christian education. If you know something "coach" then take it to the TSSAA.

[Baldcoach]

We have two students (twins) who moved to the school in which I coach. They came from inner-city Nashville. Both students were outstanding middle school players for their team. One lead the city in rushing his eighth grade year. He told me that Goodpasture had contacted him about attending their school. This kid is very intelligent so he could pass at Goodpasture. I look forward to seeing how this kid fills out over the next three years and feel lucky that both of them moved here. They are incredible kids and very athletic.

I played against Boyd throughout high school. One of the best lineman John David Smith lived in Whitwell, TN. About 45 minutes to an hour away from Boyd. How did he just decide to go there? He did not attend Boyd in elementary school. Those are just two examples. I'm sure that they are not the only two examples that I could give you.

Here's one more, today, I was Christmas shopping. I saw an advertisement for Clarksville Academy. It was a billboard and on it were three pictures: Two pictures of students in the classroom, the other a big picture of a Basketball player shooting the ball. The B-ball picture was massive in comparison to the students in the classroom. How is that not recruiting? Can public schools get away with that?

 

Talent you have your names and players confused. John David Blair was our qb and he and his brothers (all 3) attended Boyd in elementary, their family moved to middle Tennessee (their dad was a preacher) and then they moved back to Chattanooga when John David was in late elementary and his brothers were in middle and early highschool. JD was a great qb and his senior year we lost to SPitt in the quarterfinals after he sprained his ankle in basketball tryouts.

 

We also had a lineman who played named Davey Smith. Davey's dad is Randy Smith the sportscaster on channel 3. He had come to the school several times in 96 to award various people and the team with stuff, and liked the school so much that the next year he switched Davey over. Davey was a middle schooler at the time. The Smiths did live in Whitwell...which is 30 minutes at most from school...but Randy had to come in to Chattanooga to work, so it wasn't a big deal for them. I hope this answers your suspicions.

 

Perhaps you could try assuming that those at Christian schools have more important things to do than cheat at sports...or that they may be moral enough not to consider it even if they didn't. Btw, we have quite a few kids from 30 or more miles away who don't play sports at all...amazingly they choose to go to Boyd for other reasons. But, of course, we recruited them for their art abilities, or their fine dissection form in Biology, lol.

[TalentWinsGames]

Talent you have your names and players confused. John David Blair was our qb and he and his brothers (all 3) attended Boyd in elementary, their family moved to middle Tennessee (their dad was a preacher) and then they moved back to Chattanooga when John David was in late elementary and his brothers were in middle and early highschool. JD was a great qb and his senior year we lost to SPitt in the quarterfinals after he sprained his ankle in basketball tryouts.

 

We also had a lineman who played named Davey Smith. Davey's dad is Randy Smith the sportscaster on channel 3. He had come to the school several times in 96 to award various people and the team with stuff, and liked the school so much that the next year he switched Davey over. Davey was a middle schooler at the time. The Smiths did live in Whitwell...which is 30 minutes at most from school...but Randy had to come in to Chattanooga to work, so it wasn't a big deal for them. I hope this answers your suspicions.

 

Perhaps you could try assuming that those at Christian schools have more important things to do than cheat at sports...or that they may be moral enough not to consider it even if they didn't. Btw, we have quite a few kids from 30 or more miles away who don't play sports at all...amazingly they choose to go to Boyd for other reasons. But, of course, we recruited them for their art abilities, or their fine dissection form in Biology, lol.

Don't jump on me because names are wrong. If that is what you're coming back with, then you're argument is pretty weak. I never said that private schools are trying to cheat. I never once said that. I have never said that the main objective of a private/ public school is to recruit kids for sports. However, a coach has a job to do and that job is to win. So if he can bring in one kid here, one kid there, then that is still recruiting. I know who the kids dad is btw, just don't care. It was only a detail. I was responding to the Smith County post. Can any of you deny that Clarksville Academy had a billboard up in the middle of Clarksville? No, you guys don't live here. I tell you what I see, but you don't want to hear it. Private schools are not out to be the bad guy, but you all take offense when we point out advantages. Can any public school legally have kids from 51 or whatever zip codes?

Edited December 20, 2005 by TalentWinsGames

[TalentWinsGames]

Talent you have your names and players confused. John David Blair was our qb and he and his brothers (all 3) attended Boyd in elementary, their family moved to middle Tennessee (their dad was a preacher) and then they moved back to Chattanooga when John David was in late elementary and his brothers were in middle and early highschool. JD was a great qb and his senior year we lost to SPitt in the quarterfinals after he sprained his ankle in basketball tryouts.

 

We also had a lineman who played named Davey Smith. Davey's dad is Randy Smith the sportscaster on channel 3. He had come to the school several times in 96 to award various people and the team with stuff, and liked the school so much that the next year he switched Davey over. Davey was a middle schooler at the time. The Smiths did live in Whitwell...which is 30 minutes at most from school...but Randy had to come in to Chattanooga to work, so it wasn't a big deal for them. I hope this answers your suspicions.

 

Perhaps you could try assuming that those at Christian schools have more important things to do than cheat at sports...or that they may be moral enough not to consider it even if they didn't. Btw, we have quite a few kids from 30 or more miles away who don't play sports at all...amazingly they choose to go to Boyd for other reasons. But, of course, we recruited them for their art abilities, or their fine dissection form in Biology, lol.

Have you ever been to Whitwell? It is not thirty minutes from the school. I am from that area. Easy chief, before you question my knowledge of geography. So your facts are wrong.

[TalentWinsGames]

I can not speak about the kid who "said" Goodpasture contacted him. I can tell you that Boyd has kids from 57 zip codes. Not recruited but who come to school to receive a Christian education. If you know something "coach" then take it to the TSSAA.

Two things. We have the twins at our school. I'm happy for us. Second, there will be a total split in three years. It doesn't matter.

Which is something your pro-private, pity us people should learn. It doesn't matter. I have yet to blame all of the public school's problems on private schools. However, you guys want to take it like that. I dig the condescending tone though from both buc4life and baldy. Please, speak like adults and let's take a socratic approach to this topic.

[bigmon]

Here's one more, today, I was Christmas shopping. I saw an advertisement for Clarksville Academy. It was a billboard and on it were three pictures: Two pictures of students in the classroom, the other a big picture of a Basketball player shooting the ball. The B-ball picture was massive in comparison to the students in the classroom. How is that not recruiting? Can public schools get away with that?

 

Therefore, pub is pub. If you can show your product, then more will become interested.

 

Clarksville Academy is just letting parents know what options are available for their children's education. Some may be tired of being rezoned every year. The rezoning in Clarksville, due to opening a new elementary school, will have over 1,200 kids going to a different school for the next school year. There is also a plan for a new high school, West Creek High, that will prompt another massive shuffle in a few years.

 

Why would over crowded public schools need to advertise for students?