VolunteerGeneral Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I agree in principle even though I think the current public/private system has some kinks. It can't be enrollment based, hence the multiplier. I do agree that a merit system has the most, ummmm, merit! The issues concerning open boundaries for the publics and recruiting for some privates will still be around. Hopefully there is a common ground. The other option is seems would be for the public schools to join a governing body that only allowed public schools to join and so the privates would be out by definition. I hope there is an equitable compromise. ksgovols...the problem is just a natural resentment for private schools. Most split proponents would never admit that but it`s true. I went to a private high school years ago and had many friends in public schools, yet I was amazed at that things folks said about private school students. Stuff like "you think you are better than us". Now how can someone say that without even knowing the person? It`s the same thing with sports. It was all fine when privates schools don`t do well and were an automatic "W" for the public school, but when they start winning the then that`s when the real feelings come out. It`s really the public schools that just need to get over it. It`s own lack of self esteem that has them embittered. They are the ones that have really caused the stink. Give me your opinion...if private schools were really out recruiting kids then you have to assume that at least some of the kids they "recruit" don`t want to go there or either don`t want to spend the money. If it is as bad as some people want to claim it is, don`t you think that sooner or later someone somewhere is gonna turn them in? It just isn`t happening. And if it is then the publics have only themselves to blame for letting it happen. It`s time that we put everyone back together and go to a merit based system and let the good times roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Golden Eagles Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 The way I heard this explain to me, was that these kids were already enrolled for the next year @ BA, and were contacted with information that the parents had provided... Am I wrong? It sounds to me like the local public school coaches felt they should have up to the 11th hour to recruit these kids away from BA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cat Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Your simple "solution" may be grounds for action. According to Lee Barfield, the attorney for BA, "If a group of competitors gets together and agrees to boycott another group, that's grounds for action.". The creation of DII was an arbitrary and punitive action and now it appears the TSSAA may have to answer for that action. Who could argue that the multiplier rule is any different? It appears that the TSSAA recruiting rules will need to change according to the court. I have always believed that the TSSAA made this situation worse by hitting BA with a $100 punishment for a 2 cent crime and then was too stubborn to cut their losses and settle. The TSSAA tried to bully BA and BA did not back down. So, the TSSAA made its bed and now has to lie in it. I think this is a sad day for high school athletics. Maybe, cooler heads will now prevail and the two sides can work this out. The TSSAA may change dramatically but perhaps not in the manner that "82cat" seems to think it will. [/quote Hate to let you in on a secret but there are many many public schools that will not even schedule a scrimmage with a private school so that cat is already out of the bag and my bet is the bag just got bigger. There are many states that already calssify there divisions as public or private and it makes perfect sense to me. LETS DO IT CLASSIFICATION I = PRIVATES OR ANY PUBLIcS THAT WANT IN - NO RULES WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN CLASSIFICATION II = PUBLIC all the rest that want to follow the rules the majority of schools want to impose and enforce. there it is really simple but the really simple thing to do would be for all the privates that don't like the tssaa rules ---- go start your own organization and run it how you see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnsddeveloper Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 there it is really simple but the really simple thing to do would be for all the privates that don't like the tssaa rules ---- go start your own organization and run it how you see fit. The issue is that all the privates want is to play by the same rules. No multipliers. No being forced into seperate leagues. Time to start talking about a merit system folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cat Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 The issue is that all the privates want is to play by the same rules. No multipliers. No being forced into seperate leagues. Time to start talking about a merit system folks. I am still having a hard time understanding same rules??? Would those be the ones that allow privates to recruit athletes and then pay for them to come to their schools regardless of where they live?? Would those be the same rules that alloed BA a few years ago have 6 or 7 D1 players on their team in a school of a few hundred. I don't blame the privates for wanting to have all the rules slanted their way so they can get that great feeling of superiority of beating schools that for the most part have to play with whoever shows up and lives in the zone set by the schools ( go ahead and tell a few anecdotal stories of how all these players flock to schools out of zone and play. It sounds good but as some one who has been around public school athletics for over 40 years it is very much the exception not the rule. To summarize Public school play with who shows up and lives in the school zone Private schools can recruit athletes from anywhere and then pay their way to school. Yea that sounds fair to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Golden Eagles Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I am still having a hard time understanding same rules??? Would those be the ones that allow privates to recruit athletes and then pay for them to come to their schools regardless of where they live?? Would those be the same rules that alloed BA a few years ago have 6 or 7 D1 players on their team in a school of a few hundred. I don't blame the privates for wanting to have all the rules slanted their way so they can get that great feeling of superiority of beating schools that for the most part have to play with whoever shows up and lives in the zone set by the schools ( go ahead and tell a few anecdotal stories of how all these players flock to schools out of zone and play. It sounds good but as some one who has been around public school athletics for over 40 years it is very much the exception not the rule. To summarize Public school play with who shows up and lives in the school zone Private schools can recruit athletes from anywhere and then pay their way to school. Yea that sounds fair to me 1. Maybe you don't blame privates for supposedly feeling this way because you are trying to do the same thing. Schools "for the most part have to play with whoever shows up and lives in the zone"?? What does "for the most part" mean? 2. Why is it public schools NEVER recruit and privates ALWAYS recruit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82cat Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 1. Maybe you don't blame privates for supposedly feeling this way because you are trying to do the same thing. Schools "for the most part have to play with whoever shows up and lives in the zone"?? What does "for the most part" mean? 2. Why is it public schools NEVER recruit and privates ALWAYS recruit? Fof the most part means = the majority of public schools have 100% in zone players the rest probably 98% so "for the most part" public schools play with who shows up for the school zone. I could give you the names of a few BA players that were recruited,played and after attending this private school that is supposed to get you ready for college couldn't get in school anywhere. I am sure their athletic skills were an unexpected gift. Private school teams playing in the public school division would be no different than bringing a hand picked all star travel team and wanting to play in the local little league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnsddeveloper Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I am still having a hard time understanding same rules??? Would those be the ones that allow privates to recruit athletes and then pay for them to come to their schools regardless of where they live?? Would those be the same rules that alloed BA a few years ago have 6 or 7 D1 players on their team in a school of a few hundred. Uh, you aren't playing that team right now. They have been forced to play in another league. By definition, D1 privates can not offer aid for any reason to a student that participates in a sport ... even for scholarship or financial hardship. So what you are telling me is that a private is going one county over, meet the local stud Junior Smith, and saying to Daddy Smith - "send Junior to our school." Then, "oh yeah, and tuition is $7000 a year ... fork over the dough!" Privates can not force anyone to attend their school. The $$$ to attend alone prevents a large portion of kids from being able to attend. So you are saying the privates are slick enough to convince people to fork over $7000 a year or better yet $28,000 over 4 years to attend said private? One thing is apparent though. The Supreme Court and Federal Courts agree with the private schools. Their arguments have been justified as having a good basis by the rulings. My advice would be to become proactive in coming up with a good system that everyone can live with - especially now that magnets and open zoned schools are starting to dominate a bit (Liberty Tech, Maryville, Hillsboro, Alcoa). Start thinking about a merit system that lets every team find their own level of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowdog Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 (edited) This case is still far from over. There are probably appeals still to come. What ultimately Brentwood Academy wants is to recruit athletes (Barfield said this in the Tennessean article by making the tuba player analogy) and they want to compete against public schools (their antitrust agument) for a state championship. No merit system or multiplier can equalize this inequity. If they get their way, then high schools will be competing for athletes from middle schools, just like colleges do when they recruit high school kids and state championships by public schools will become rare. The Sixth Circuit in Cincinnati ruled against Brentwood Academy years ago and they appealed to the Supreme Court. I would suspect the same thing will be done by TSSAA. If high schools can recruit, this would have far-reaching implications on every state, thus, it would probably be something the Supreme Court would ultimately decide on. We all need to remember, this is not about BA vs. TSSAA, it is about anti-trust, due-process, education, high school recruiting, and public/private organizations coexsiting. It is an argument about the laws of this land. The actual participants in the Scopes Monkey Trail and Roe vs. Wade, for instance are minor, if not forgotten players, but the laws that came out of courts affected everyone in this nation -- same thing holds true here. So, we are probably looking at a few more years before a final settlement will be made. By the time this case gets settled, there will be a new generation of posters on coacht.com to discuss it -- us current posters will riding into the sunset. In the history of this case, both sides have won, and both have lost. It just so happens that Brentwood Academy wins this latest volley. And, if Brentwood Academy ultimately wins here, they will have won the battle, but lost the war, because the establishment of a new athletic organization that is made up of only public schools is a certainity, and BA would be left with nobody to play but other private schools. Do you think that if BA recruits the best players from Beech, Franklin, Brentwood, etc, that those schools will schedule BA? Also, if BA ultimately wins and can recruit, then other private schools will step up their recruiting - and who do you think would win the recruiting battle if Ensworth, MBA and BA all want the same student? Edited March 19, 2006 by yellowdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jek Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 The way I heard this explain to me, was that these kids were already enrolled for the next year @ BA, and were contacted with information that the parents had provided... Am I wrong? It sounds to me like the local public school coaches felt they should have up to the 11th hour to recruit these kids away from BA. All the the 8th graders had signed enrollment contracts for their freshman year. The letters were sent to make them aware of spring football practice (as long as they were not involved in current school activities). The follow up calls by Coach Flatt to the parents was to clarify that attendance was not mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I am still having a hard time understanding same rules??? Would those be the ones that allow privates to recruit athletes and then pay for them to come to their schools regardless of where they live?? Would those be the same rules that alloed BA a few years ago have 6 or 7 D1 players on their team in a school of a few hundred. I don't blame the privates for wanting to have all the rules slanted their way so they can get that great feeling of superiority of beating schools that for the most part have to play with whoever shows up and lives in the zone set by the schools ( go ahead and tell a few anecdotal stories of how all these players flock to schools out of zone and play. It sounds good but as some one who has been around public school athletics for over 40 years it is very much the exception not the rule. To summarize Public school play with who shows up and lives in the school zone Private schools can recruit athletes from anywhere and then pay their way to school. Yea that sounds fair to me I am so tired of your misformation. 1. Name one athlete at any school ever who was paid to come to a school and play sports. 2. Name the 6 or 7 BA players in a single year who signed D1 scholarships. 3. The Shelbyville girls play with whoever shows up. Maryville, Riverdale and Alcoa footbal teams play with whoever shows up. I am not accusing these programs of illegal recruiting but they have all had athletes transfer to their schools. Get me a break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jek Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Fof the most part means = the majority of public schools have 100% in zone players the rest probably 98% so "for the most part" public schools play with who shows up for the school zone. I could give you the names of a few BA players that were recruited,played and after attending this private school that is supposed to get you ready for college couldn't get in school anywhere. I am sure their athletic skills were an unexpected gift. Private school teams playing in the public school division would be no different than bringing a hand picked all star travel team and wanting to play in the local little league. Virtually every student that graduates from BA goes on to college. Sure, you can point to a handful of athletes over the last 30 years that failed to live up to their potential. However, I challenge you to show me a public school system that comes anywhere close to the graduation rates of the DII schools. For every failed situation that you can identify at BA, you will find 100 success stories. I have no doubt that the same is true for the other DII schools. You're looking for equality of outcome when the need is equality of opportunity. Competition in a free market is the reality of life. BA and the other DII schools provide an opportunity for kids without the financial means to receive a quality education. You may think that financial aid is significantly skewed towards athletes but you would be very much mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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