Terrible Tennessee Refs

[The Contractor]

A ref is not expected to make every perfect split-second decision, but many refs do not make the right calls in obvious situations. Last week, after a player on the other team was granted numerous free kicks when he was barely being touched and obviously diving, I approached the referee ( AS A CAPTAIN) and informed him about this. He said to me, "YEAH I KNOW." How are players ever going to learn to play honorable soccer when the refs are letting them get away with it.

 

That is a disgrace to the soccer community. I am simply appalled at this thought.

[goo]

A ref is not expected to make every perfect split-second decision, but many refs do not make the right calls in obvious situations. Last week, after a player on the other team was granted numerous free kicks when he was barely being touched and obviously diving, I approached the referee ( AS A CAPTAIN) and informed him about this. He said to me, "YEAH I KNOW." How are players ever going to learn to play honorable soccer when the refs are letting them get away with it.

 

honorable soccer is more or less synonomous with rookie soccer. the higher level soccer you play the more important the ability to gain advantages by bending the rules. one of the worst things that refs can do to young players is to keep the game too honest; it becomes a genuine hobble later in their careers.

this is certainly not to say that when a referee can tell that a player is diving, he ought not to make the call - that is teaching the kid to cheat poorly, which is also far from advantageous at the next nevel.

there is, however, nothing intrinsically wrong with diving. much as i, as a defender, am much more often the victim of dives, it was important for me to learn how not to allow opposing players the opportunity to dive convincingly, a skill without which i'd have struggled at higher levels and which i would not have developed if soccer culture in TN deviated so much from the norm that i was never exposed to "dishonorable" soccer.

my personal response to kids who dive on me is to foul them hard and to discreetly let them know why. insofar as all good defenders can execute said plan artfully enough to avoid having it called, i suppose that this is somehow also dishonorable. it is, however, no less necessary.

the general ability to push, no, to break the rules without being called is one that ought to be cultivated rather than discouraged if one is serious about reaching the next level.

(the only caveat to this general proclamation of course being that intentionally fouling someone in a way that could cause a serious injury is never acceptable and i suppose might be a part of honor)

[defender25]

honorable soccer is more or less synonomous with rookie soccer. the higher level soccer you play the more important the ability to gain advantages by bending the rules. one of the worst things that refs can do to young players is to keep the game too honest; it becomes a genuine hobble later in their careers.

this is certainly not to say that when a referee can tell that a player is diving, he ought not to make the call - that is teaching the kid to cheat poorly, which is also far from advantageous at the next nevel.

there is, however, nothing intrinsically wrong with diving. much as i, as a defender, am much more often the victim of dives, it was important for me to learn how not to allow opposing players the opportunity to dive convincingly, a skill without which i'd have struggled at higher levels and which i would not have developed if soccer culture in TN deviated so much from the norm that i was never exposed to "dishonorable" soccer.

my personal response to kids who dive on me is to foul them hard and to discreetly let them know why. insofar as all good defenders can execute said plan artfully enough to avoid having it called, i suppose that this is somehow also dishonorable. it is, however, no less necessary.

the general ability to push, no, to break the rules without being called is one that ought to be cultivated rather than discouraged if one is serious about reaching the next level.

(the only caveat to this general proclamation of course being that intentionally fouling someone in a way that could cause a serious injury is never acceptable and i suppose might be a part of honor)

 

As a defender (as you might've guessed by my name), and before you get the waterfall of negative remarks on this post that you're probably going to get, I want to be the first (and maybe the only) one to say good post. You are absolutely correct. And as a ref I can say that yes, if you clearly recognize that a player's diving, then you should obviously not give them the call, and if its obvious enough then you should call it against them. As a defender, I agree completely with what you said about fouling the "diver". I know that's probably going to be a very unpopular thing to say, but you are right about the next level. And I will say that learning to deal with a diving attacker is one of the fine points in being a good defender, and its sometimes not easy to learn.

[goo]

As a defender (as you might've guessed by my name), and before you get the waterfall of negative remarks on this post that you're probably going to get, I want to be the first (and maybe the only) one to say good post. You are absolutely correct. And as a ref I can say that yes, if you clearly recognize that a player's diving, then you should obviously not give them the call, and if its obvious enough then you should call it against them. As a defender, I agree completely with what you said about fouling the "diver". I know that's probably going to be a very unpopular thing to say, but you are right about the next level. And I will say that learning to deal with a diving attacker is one of the fine points in being a good defender, and its sometimes not easy to learn.

 

anyone interested in this topic, which is slightly different from the issue of terrible refs that were the initial and are still the main focus of this topic, please post on the "honorable soccer" topic that i just opened.

 

to defender25: i just copied your response above into that topic and put your name on it. let me know if that's not ok and feel free to add anything that you like!

[Law-Five]

By the way - TSSAA soccer refs do not add time for anything. They stop the clock when goals are scored, cautions, red cards, penalty kicks, excessive substitutions, injuries, etc. That way when the official clock alarm goes off the game is over (regardless of where the ball is).

 

FIFA, however, allows the head official to add time (which is pretty subjective) unless they have a fourth official who keeps track of lost time and then communicates the amount of time to be added to the game to the head official.

[soccerpro1]

Whining about refs is probably one of the more brain dead topics on this board. After you've played several hundred games in this sport or any other, you notice the breaks fall both ways. If you're obsessed with the quality or lack of quality of reffing, you're not playing to your potential. When you're sitting in the stands, listen to the parents, "The refs are for the other team because it's a private school!". " The refs are for the other team because it's a public school!" "The refs are against us because we're a Christian School!" (Chattanooga Christian parents almost chant this one and they'll do it while they're playing Grace!) It goes on and on. The vast majority of refs want to call a fair game. They might be incompetent but they're incompetent both ways.

 

Someone put a fork in this idiotic topic. It's done!

Edited April 18, 2006 by soccerpro1

[goo]

Whining about refs is probably one of the more brain dead topics on this board. After you've played several hundred games in this sport or any other, you notice the breaks fall both ways. If you're obsessed with the quality or lack of quality of reffing, you're not playing to your potential. When you're sitting in the stands, listen to the parents, "The refs are for the other team because it's a private school!". " The refs are for the other team because it's a public school!" "The refs are against us because we're a Christian School!" (Chattanooga Christian parents almost chant this one and they'll do it while they're playing Grace!) It goes on and on. The vast majority of refs want to call a fair game. They might be incompetent but they're incompetent both ways.

 

Someone put a fork in this idiotic topic. It's done!

 

while no one can argue with your assertion that fans are ridiculous and make ridiculous accusations of bias in officiating, or even that ineptitude tends to cut both ways, i do not necessarily feel that that is a reason to kill this "idiotic" topic.

 

one aspect of the refereeing situation that is consistent is that the refs employed by / certified to work TSSAA games tend to be much less competent than those who ref at club tournaments and even in club friendlies.

 

why is this the case, particularly when the pay that i understand is offered for high school matches ($50/game - someone please correct me if i am wrong, because i'm not sure) far exceeds what those more competent refs could make elsewhere? what exactly is the certification process for the state organization and should it be changed?

 

these questions are legit as is the concern embedded in the topic title and articulated in previous posts.

[Law-Five]

USSF requirements are far more stringent than TSSAA. Until a few years ago the TSSAA test was open book - pay your $30 if you're 18, make a score of 70 and you could ref a game. USSF requires two full weekends of classroom instruction and a physical test.

[lcsoccer]

the general ability to push, no, to break the rules without being called is one that ought to be cultivated rather than discouraged if one is serious about reaching the next level.

 

You have to remember it's high school, and the majority of players will not go to the next level. Also, as a college player myself, you don't see it as much as you used to, which means if the refs aren't calling it, they're not going to do it anymore. The kids that dive in high school are, no offense, usually foreign. In high school, it doesn't benefit you to dive or to foul hard, b/c unless you go pro, you don't see it much at the college level.

[itsaboutthegame10]

You have to remember it's high school, and the majority of players will not go to the next level. Also, as a college player myself, you don't see it as much as you used to, which means if the refs aren't calling it, they're not going to do it anymore. The kids that dive in high school are, no offense, usually foreign. In high school, it doesn't benefit you to dive or to foul hard, b/c unless you go pro, you don't see it much at the college level.

 

 

i know what ur saying about alot of people no going to college, but if you can use it in highschool go ahead, i know i did, and you do see it in college, alot more that you do in highschool

[goo]

USSF requirements are far more stringent than TSSAA. Until a few years ago the TSSAA test was open book - pay your $30 if you're 18, make a score of 70 and you could ref a game. USSF requires two full weekends of classroom instruction and a physical test.

 

if that was a few years ago, what is the process like now?

 

if it's similar, does this not strike anyone else as a HUGE problem?

 

how would one go about lobbying for a change?

 

it would seem that TSSAA could save time and money and improve the quality of refereeing by simply eliminating their own program and accepting the legitimacy of USSF standards. of course the guys who do games now could go through that process and continue refereeing, but i think that they'd be better for it, and if some of them were unable to pass it (and i suspect that there are a fair number who would struggle with the physical test) probably ought not to be ref'ing anyway...that's what those standards are designed to identify.

[goo]

You have to remember it's high school, and the majority of players will not go to the next level. Also, as a college player myself, you don't see it as much as you used to, which means if the refs aren't calling it, they're not going to do it anymore. The kids that dive in high school are, no offense, usually foreign. In high school, it doesn't benefit you to dive or to foul hard, b/c unless you go pro, you don't see it much at the college level.

 

yo, check out the honorable soccer topic. but in response to this post, i'd say that while diving is certainly not as big an issue in college soccer, it is not negligible and part of the reason that it is less frequent is because people are smarter about how to play against it and refs tend to be more competent and better able to identify it. the combination leads to a decline in its efficacy. on the larger topic of "honorable" play, while diving may decline (and i focused on that point initially because that was the context of the comment about honorable soccer) at the college level, the types of contact that are technically illegal, but are effectively legal because they are never whistled, become much more important. referees who call the game too tight in any number of ways put kids at a disadvantage going forwards. and as to not too many kids going on to college ball, that is no reason not to let them play the game recognized as soccer elsewhere in the world and in the country and even at higher levels (like club) within the state while they are in high school rather than creating some powder puff watered down approximation thereof.