Lewis Co. vs. Goodpasture - Excellence and success attracts

[soccerdad]

This thread was started in the Football Forum where Lewis Co. and Goodpasture fans were discussing Friday's outcome. Several LC fans felt GCS had an unfair advantage. One fan, LC-PANTHER-FAN thought with 4-5 studs, who came from out of zone, a team could go to M'boro on a regular basis. I countered with the following:

 

C-PANTHER-FAN - It takes a lot more than 4-5 studs to have a winning tradition!!! They have built a solid athletic reputation (in several sports) over many, many years of HARD work. In the beginning (1970's), Goodpasture played good football teams (in much larger schools) like Madison High, Goodlettsville High, Hendersonville High, among others, when it was a dinky little nothing school. Now many are attracted to them because of the successes they've had over the years. (Also, there are sports [such as soccer] at GCS that don't attract players - who find Hendersonville, Beech, Station Camp, Pope John Paul II, Davidson, Franklin, etc. as their answer. GCS is in a very competitive part of the state for players)

 

But don't think this attraction to quality programs holds true only for PRIVATE schools. I know for a FACT people move to school zones because of the sports programs of schools in that district! It happens everywhere. Having a closed school zone is NO DETERANT to parents who want their children in a quality sports program. They just move into the community and they're eligible. So, if they live in Columbia and want to play for the Panthers all they have to do is move to Hohenwald (possibly a step up from Columbia) and they're set!

 

What each school and athlete has to do is commit to excellence and "they will come" (the other athletes). However, being in a large metropolitan area, such as Nashville, makes it much easier for movement from one school zone to another. Which is one of the trade offs for the lower quality of life one experiences in those metro areas. That reminds me of a talk I had, a couple of years ago, with the principal of Cheatham Central - he felt our biggest problem in TN was not private vs. public, but rural vs. metropolitan. He thinks TSSAA should split things up based on size AND urban/suburban [DI], private [DII], county/rural districts [DIII].

 

Anyway, I hope all involved in the game have an excellent game and remain healthy!!! Be proud of who you are and what you can offer your team and community! PLAY BALL!!!!!!!

 

Any thoughts on this apparent disparity? Is excellence the true issue? Is the Cheatham Central principal right on?

Edited November 11, 2006 by soccerdad

[ksgovols]

I think Cheatham Central's principal hit the nail right on the head. How many 1A, 2A and 3A programs are there in urban areas that aren't private schools? I can't think of any in Metro Davidson County. Shelby County has an entire 2A district of public schools I think. Chattanooga has a few. Knoxville very few. Murfreesboro and Williamson County are light in the lower classifications. 1A and 2A are almost rural by definition in the public ranks but there are 5A powers in rural areas such as Lincoln County. I still think a merit system addresses all inequities that might be inherent.

Edited November 7, 2006 by ksgovols

[Kublah]

Manassas in 8-A is an inner-city Memphis public school.

[LC_PANTHER_FAN]

I agree with most of your post except the example of columbia families moving to hohenwald for sports. Lewis County has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state so I can't see many people being able to afford to do this. I realize they could drive out of county to work but thats another discussion. Still...I liked your post and found the urban/rural topic interesting...never have even thought about that!

[926]

I used to be hot and heavy on this subject. I spoke my mind a couple of years ago. Do a search of my posts and you can get my opinions in detail. The major beef that the small schools have with the privates is their ability to draw from a much larger population and across public school boundary lines. If someone in Lewis County wanted to send their child to Goodpasture (heckuva commute), they could. But, if someone in Madison wanted to send their child to Lewis County, they couldn't. Let me clarify that...They could if they just wanted them to go to school there, but not play sports. There's a $1,000 "tuition" for out of county students. I'm sure that it wouldn't meet TSSAA's requirements.

 

Private school proponents can't seem to comprehend or empathize with the small public school's position on this matter. There's probably 500,000 (conservatively) people within 20 miles of 90% of the private schools in the state. The majority of these schools have an enrollment that would normally have them at the 1A or 2A level. For most of the small publics, there's probably no more than 20,000 people in that same 20 mile radius. And that's being very generous in most cases.

 

All the rural public schools want is a fair and equitable chance to compete with similar sized school from similar population profiles. Notice that I said "rural". Those Memphis "small" schools are notorious for loading up. And we won't even get started on Alcoa.

 

When the multiplier first came to be, most of the D1 private school people were angry. They said it was because the public schools were trying to dodge them because they couldn't win state championships....not because they themselves were afraid that moving up in classification would mean they would be much less likely to win it all.

 

I don't dislike the privates at all. I've stated many times in the past that if I lived in a metropolitan area, my son would be in a private school. There's nothing pretentious about wanting your child to have a good Christian education and play sports for a loaded team with a top-notch coaching staff.

 

For most parents of athletes who send their kids to certain private schools, the sports situation is as important, if not more so, than the Christian education.

[Baldcoach]

I used to be hot and heavy on this subject. I spoke my mind a couple of years ago. Do a search of my posts and you can get my opinions in detail. The major beef that the small schools have with the privates is their ability to draw from a much larger population and across public school boundary lines. If someone in Lewis County wanted to send their child to Goodpasture (heckuva commute), they could. But, if someone in Madison wanted to send their child to Lewis County, they couldn't. Let me clarify that...They could if they just wanted them to go to school there, but not play sports. There's a $1,000 "tuition" for out of county students. I'm sure that it wouldn't meet TSSAA's requirements.

 

Private school proponents can't seem to comprehend or empathize with the small public school's position on this matter. There's probably 500,000 (conservatively) people within 20 miles of 90% of the private schools in the state. The majority of these schools have an enrollment that would normally have them at the 1A or 2A level. For most of the small publics, there's probably no more than 20,000 people in that same 20 mile radius. And that's being very generous in most cases.

 

All the rural public schools want is a fair and equitable chance to compete with similar sized school from similar population profiles. Notice that I said "rural". Those Memphis "small" schools are notorious for loading up. And we won't even get started on Alcoa.

 

When the multiplier first came to be, most of the D1 private school people were angry. They said it was because the public schools were trying to dodge them because they couldn't win state championships....not because they themselves were afraid that moving up in classification would mean they would be much less likely to win it all.

 

I don't dislike the privates at all. I've stated many times in the past that if I lived in a metropolitan area, my son would be in a private school. There's nothing pretentious about wanting your child to have a good Christian education and play sports for a loaded team with a top-notch coaching staff.

 

For most parents of athletes who send their kids to certain private schools, the sports situation is as important, if not more so, than the Christian education.

 

 

Sooo...you would be for a seperate division for the small rural publics? As that seems to be your position.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I think Cheatham Central's principal hit the nail right on the head. How many 1A, 2A and 3A programs are there in urban areas that aren't private schools? I can't think of any in Metro Davidson County. Shelby County has an entire 2A district of public schools I think. Chattanooga has a few. Knoxville very few. Murfreesboro and Williamson County are light in the lower classifications. 1A and 2A are almost rural by definition in the public ranks but there are 5A powers in rural areas such as Lincoln County. I still think a merit system addresses all inequities that might be inherent.

 

Southside in Jackson is 3A

Madison in Jackson is 1A

[926]

Sooo...you would be for a seperate division for the small rural publics? As that seems to be your position.

 

 

Seems fair to me. However, this would dilute the waters quite a bit and would necessitate one or two more sub-classes.

[Baldcoach]

Seems fair to me. However, this would dilute the waters quite a bit and would necessitate one or two more sub-classes.

 

Should we have a seperate division for every school that percieves a difference from other schools then? For instance, should there be a magnet/open zoned public division? Or an inner city division? Or a suburban/metro division? How about racial divisions in the sports that seem to fall along racial lines. Or a non-English-as-primary-language division for schools with a large percentage of Hispanic kids.

 

I warned everyone 3 or 4 years ago that the Division II split and the multiplier would condition people to think that unless schools were identical then they should be seperated because someone would have a percieved "advantage" over someone else. No schools are identical...not even small rural publics. And not every school should win a State Championship...that title should be special, not the result of subdividing until there are 42 divisions so that schools that really aren't very good can win.

 

THe idea of a "Small Rural non-English-as-a-Primary-Language non-openzoned" State Champion (D-XII) may seem silly now, but 4 years ago people laughed at me when I said the witch hunt would move to magnets and open zoned schools next...they aren't laughing now.

[ksgovols]

I don't see any difference in separating for rural/urban than public/private. I think the rural public schools are at a distinct disadvantage for the reasons 926 listed, but I have come to the conclusion that a merit system is a better way to approach the problem.

[soccerdad]

I don't see any difference in separating for rural/urban than public/private. I think the rural public schools are at a distinct disadvantage for the reasons 926 listed, but I have come to the conclusion that a merit system is a better way to approach the problem.

I'm new to this discussion, but have spent years working on both "sides" of this great debate. Could you explain to me what you mean by a "merit system" and who would administer it justly?

[ksgovols]

The merit system would look at all of the schools, public and private combined, and look at their record over a period of time and then seed them accordingly. Divide by 5 or 4 or whatever and play ball. You might have a 2A school playing 4A or 5A ball and vice versa. Adjust accordingly every 4 years like they do with enrollment. No multiplier.