Illegal substitution in girls class A championship game.

[basketballjunkie]

The Gleason coach removed four players at the 32 second mark. All four reserves legally entered the game and all 4 players being removed went to the bench. With out the ball ever being put into play and without the clock ever re-starting the coach realized that the game was not as far out of reach as he thought as he was only up by eight points and Oliver Springs had possession of the ball to be in-bounded under its own goal with 32 seconds remaining. The coach then substituted the same players he had just removed from the game ill-legally as stated below from the NFHS rule book (the official rules for basketball in the TSSAA).

 

ART.2...The substitute shall remain outside the boundary until an official beckons, whereupon he/she shall enter immediately. If the ball is about to become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld. The entering substitute shall not replace a designated jumper or a free thrower except as in 8-2 and 3. If the substitute enters to replace a player who must jump or attempt a free throw, he/she shall withdraw until the next opportunity to substitute.

ART.3...A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

ART.4...A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game for injury or for illegal equipment or apparel, etc., shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.

 

The penalty for an ill-legal substitution is a technical foul. OS should have been given two free throws and possession of the ball under their own goal. Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game? No one will ever know but a violation occurred and was not called.

[10teamdistrictisajoke]

QUOTE(basketballjunkie @ Mar 12 2007 - 07:55 AM) 826408730[/snapback]The Gleason coach removed four players at the 32 second mark. All four reserves legally entered the game and all 4 players being removed went to the bench. With out the ball ever being put into play and without the clock ever re-starting the coach realized that the game was not as far out of reach as he thought as he was only up by eight points and Oliver Springs had possession of the ball to be in-bounded under its own goal with 32 seconds remaining. The coach then substituted the same players he had just removed from the game ill-legally as stated below from the NFHS rule book (the official rules for basketball in the TSSAA).

 

ART.2...The substitute shall remain outside the boundary until an official beckons, whereupon he/she shall enter immediately. If the ball is about to become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld. The entering substitute shall not replace a designated jumper or a free thrower except as in 8-2 and 3. If the substitute enters to replace a player who must jump or attempt a free throw, he/she shall withdraw until the next opportunity to substitute.

ART.3...A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

ART.4...A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game for injury or for illegal equipment or apparel, etc., shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.

 

The penalty for an ill-legal substitution is a technical foul. OS should have been given two free throws and possession of the ball under their own goal. Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game? No one will ever know but a violation occurred and was not called.

 

He called and was charged with a 30 second timeout, go back and watch the film. OS could have chosen to go to their bench for 30 seconds but did not.

[basketballjunkie]

QUOTE(10teamdistrictisajoke @ Mar 12 2007 - 10:01 AM) 826408740[/snapback]He called and was charged with a 30 second timeout, go back and watch the film. OS could have chosen to go to their bench for 30 seconds but did not.

 

 

 

Whether he called a timeout is not relevant. A player who has been replaced must sit out until the next oppurtunity to sub AFTER THE CLOCK HAS BEEN RESTARTED.

[muffin]

I noticed that,if the ball is never placed inbounds by either team with no time running off the clock,it is an illegal substitution

[westtennsports]

/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

 

 

Don't cry. . .. .. the margin of the game may be in question, but the winner never was. Frazier wouldn't have let an 8 point lead slip away with 32 seconds left either way.

[basketballjunkie]

QUOTE(westtennsports @ Mar 12 2007 - 10:12 AM) 826408754[/snapback]/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

Don't cry. . .. .. the margin of the game may be in question, but the winner never was. Frazier wouldn't have let an 8 point lead slip away with 32 seconds left either way.

 

 

 

I did not say that he would let that lead slip away. I am saying he violated the rules and was not called for it.

[jamieroper]

I personally think both teams should have to be disqualified and Richland presented both Trophies. But that is just me. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

 

Does anyone disagree????????? /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

[10teamdistrictisajoke]

QUOTE(basketballjunkie @ Mar 12 2007 - 08:18 AM) 826408767[/snapback]I did not say that he would let that lead slip away. I am saying he violated the rules and was not called for it.

 

He didn't violate the rules if the players were waved in. He had subbed the players out, then OS hit a 3. The next play Gleason's 8th graders threw it away and a jump ball was called. Then a timeout, then the players checked back in. Watch the film.

[Rockets3214]

QUOTE(basketballjunkie @ Mar 12 2007 - 07:55 AM) 826408730[/snapback]The Gleason coach removed four players at the 32 second mark. All four reserves legally entered the game and all 4 players being removed went to the bench. With out the ball ever being put into play and without the clock ever re-starting the coach realized that the game was not as far out of reach as he thought as he was only up by eight points and Oliver Springs had possession of the ball to be in-bounded under its own goal with 32 seconds remaining. The coach then substituted the same players he had just removed from the game ill-legally as stated below from the NFHS rule book (the official rules for basketball in the TSSAA).

 

ART.2...The substitute shall remain outside the boundary until an official beckons, whereupon he/she shall enter immediately. If the ball is about to become live, the beckoning signal should be withheld. The entering substitute shall not replace a designated jumper or a free thrower except as in 8-2 and 3. If the substitute enters to replace a player who must jump or attempt a free throw, he/she shall withdraw until the next opportunity to substitute.

ART.3...A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

ART.4...A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game for injury or for illegal equipment or apparel, etc., shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement.

 

The penalty for an ill-legal substitution is a technical foul. OS should have been given two free throws and possession of the ball under their own goal. Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game? No one will ever know but a violation occurred and was not called.

 

 

 

I was there and wondered about that myself! I didn't think it was right but from the stands how can you find out! If I had been the OS coach I would have had to question the officials on that move by Gleason but I guess with emotions flying, she may have not even noticed that it had happened. Glad someone else noticed the officials were not calling the best anyway.

Just my thoughts!

[lazarus]

he was giving OS coach the opportunity to get all her girls on the floor in a state championship game,

which he obviously wanted to do himself as well. with about 25 seconds left, the game was already decided.

maybe he thought she was sending hers in, maybe he thought she would take the opportunity and send hers in. whatever the disconnect, she didnt send them in, so he didnt want to send a bunch of 8th graders in to get pressed by the OS starters.

he sent the first group back, the officials told him they couldnt come in (properly) so he called time out, after which the starters could legally return.

one more foul, 2 more FT, and then everyone got their chance to go in. OS coach ended up calling time out at 8 seconds to get her last girl in.

 

no big deal, no illegal substitutions.

[statstracker]

Stop trying to find something wrong with the way that Coach Frazier operates. If you will read that rule it applies to anyone who is hurt and has to be helped off of the floor, someone who has on the wrong jersey number or a piece of equipment that is not allowed. This rule has nothing to do with what Coach Frazier did. Why are you trying to teach a coach of over 20 years and the officials how to play the game? Who do you think that you are? Last time I checked James Nay Smith died a few years ago.

[hopalot]

QUOTE(statstracker @ Mar 12 2007 - 12:09 PM) 826409008[/snapback]Stop trying to find something wrong with the way that Coach Frazier operates. If you will read that rule it applies to anyone who is hurt and has to be helped off of the floor, someone who has on the wrong jersey number or a piece of equipment that is not allowed. This rule has nothing to do with what Coach Frazier did. Why are you trying to teach a coach of over 20 years and the officials how to play the game? Who do you think that you are? Last time I checked James Nay Smith died a few years ago.

 

 

statstracker---

 

Actually the rule above has a comma(,) between the simple substitution and a substitution for equipment.

 

The rule (as quoted) is correct.

 

There was a violation. It was not caught by the officials. Didn't make a difference in final outcome more than likely.

 

And it's Naismith.