BAD REFFS!

[No1ScoresOnMe]

"Players win games, coaches lose games, and refs ruin them." -Eric Wynalda

 

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a good ref, there are bad refs and worse refs. All the same, it is not the accumulation of missed calls here and there that is the problem. It's when the refs decide the game, either through a no-call or a bad-call, that seems to be the most unfair to the players.

And the one thing that refs do not crack down on is penalizing people that dive. This is the lowest, most shameful element of the beautiful game.

[sccrmun3]

I really feel that this topic is so unnecessary. I have been reading all that you guys have said and I also read what is on the other forums and soccer is the only group to bash officials. Basketball, baseball and football although they do have some complaints do not go on such vicious attacks.

 

When we choose to play a sport, it is made up of teams and officials all of which are human. Sometimes both the teams and the officials make mistakes. It can be frustrating but it happens. What should happen here is that both teams and officials should be respectful of each other.

 

I have been to a baseball game in which a player slid home and everyone on his team thought he was safe but the ump called him out and people were upset, but the game went on and no suffered for it. In soccer I see a ref call a foul and everyone rides them and then gets on this web site and chastises them. I agree with Coach G, maybe more of you who do should take the training and get out there and try to call a game yourself. I will bet it won't be that easy. I bet all officials work hard at their game and still do make errors, they probably do not intend to but it happens. I think more energy should be put into watching and enjoying the games and rooting our schools to the championships and less into criticizing others efforts.

 

Good Luck to all this season!

[pseudophobia]

QUOTE(No1ScoresOnMe @ Mar 16 2007 - 03:23 PM) 826414318[/snapback]"Players win games, coaches lose games, and refs ruin them." -Eric Wynalda

 

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a good ref, there are bad refs and worse refs. All the same, it is not the accumulation of missed calls here and there that is the problem. It's when the refs decide the game, either through a no-call or a bad-call, that seems to be the most unfair to the players.

And the one thing that refs do not crack down on is penalizing people that dive. This is the lowest, most shameful element of the beautiful game.

 

No 1 scores- I agree with you on most of this- but there are some good refs...some.

If you hate it when someone takes a dive, I would bet you are a keeper?? (also the name). Keepers have the best vision for seeing a dive and it is usually the strikers that do it. It stinks no matter who does it and if refs would penalize it more, than others would quit doing it.

Hoya, your thoughts on refs are brilliant! I have never complained about the judgement calls- it is pointless. Handballs and obstruction, or as they call it impedment, ?? are some of the worst in every game I watch. A handball that gains no advantage in the middle of the field should NEVER be called. A ball that bounces up and hits a players arm is not always a handball- yet it getss calles a lot. It screws up the whole game and then it makes me yell at the ref. The thing that makes me go crazy is when a ref does not know the rules. We recently had a ref (club teams- it was a tournament) blow the whistle to stop play due to an injury. When he re-started play he made the player, 1 from each team, do paper-rock,scissors!!!! No lie- this was not a joke.

It stinks when refs have lost their minds....or didn't have one to begin with. This was reported to the state. Like they do anything.

I fully expect to see that ref again!!

[BigG]

QUOTE(sccrmun3 @ Mar 16 2007 - 04:45 PM) 826414472[/snapback]I think more energy should be put into watching and enjoying the games and rooting our schools to the championships and less into criticizing others efforts.

 

Man, I like you already, and you only have 2 posts! Totally agree with you. I really wish our fans would only cheer for our team and not against the other team. Too many games get out of control with mean and unnecessary jeers (that includes parents screaming "TAKE HIM OUT!" of which I have heard from both sides of the bleachers, sadly).

 

I have reffed before, in college tournaments. Talk about brutal. While overusing the expression, my hat goes off to the refs in TN. I might not agree with their calls, but we couldn't have games without them. We also are running out of refs (notice the 2 man system running more and more) Ever wonder why? Because mostly, all we do is complain.

 

If you are interested in helping, please contact Susan Williamson. She is in charge of the Knoxville area refs. Feel free to PM me for her e mail address.

[takedown3]

I believe I have watched in excess of 1000 recreation, select and high school games. The bad calls even out. If you're so obsessed about the quality of refereeing instead of playing your game, your game is the one that will suffer. Even World Cup refs blow calls.

[lastone2know]

i hate 2 say this but the bad refs must go from sport 2 sport.. why is it so very hard to find people to make calls in sports nowadays? i know someone will come on here & say go get your certificate & get out there & do it yourself..well guess what...been there done that some time ago & then there was not this kind of talk about bad calls after every game from every sport from both sides. why is this? what has changed so much? if you are not interested in doing the job correctly and fairly to both teams then you should not be doing it at all and you sure should not get paid!! now i know its not much but take your money and do the job and do it the right way!! /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

[stevescarb]

I have reffed before, in college tournaments. Talk about brutal. While overusing the expression, my hat goes off to the refs in TN. I might not agree with their calls, but we couldn't have games without them. We also are running out of refs (notice the 2 man system running more and more) Ever wonder why? Because mostly, all we do is complain.

 

If it was brutal, it was because you as a ref let it be brutal.

 

As for fewer refs...I think you're taking the easy way out. We have fewer refs because after seeing the ones we have, very few young players want to be like them.

 

Having said that, I have my ref cert card. Both my kids play and carry a ref cert.

 

How many games have you watched and seen players taken out from behind and no foul even called much less cautioned? Now tell us how many cards have you seen for dissent or profanity after such an event?

 

Where's the justice in that?

 

Hoya advocates players ignoring the ref and playing the game and so do I. But I don't excuse lousy officiating. Every ref should strive to be a roll model, teach something, and learn something in every game. Listen to the players and accept the fact that they are aware of things you aren't aware of. if you are making good decisions and explaining your calls you'll get respect.

 

If you can't explain why you made a call...you shouldn't have made it.

 

And all you players, when it's your time to move on, consider giving back to the game in the form of becoming a ref. It will be your chance to show us old guys how it should have been done.

[ChipLay]

I have seen more players carded for talking to the ref, than for fouls. While the team captain should bring up any concerns to the ref, its not like the ref will suddenly see things your way and say "by gosh your right, that is a penalty". I have yet to see a TN high school ref change his call (although i hope its happened) so complaining doesn't do much good. i do believe that every ref goes into every match to try to call the game as correctly as possible, Call are missed for 4 reasons, #1 having two refs instead of 3, #2 some refs not being as agile as players, #4 lack of referee education, and #4 being human

[pseudophobia]

QUOTE(stevescarb @ Mar 16 2007 - 02:26 PM) 826414278[/snapback]Was it nice? No. Was it effective. Very.

 

I think you might be careful with statements like that one. It could be misinterpreted that you are advocating that kind of behavior. It goes on entirely too much.

 

Ok, now...Each year I state for the record that in East TN the refs are the weak link in our sport. I stand by that again this year. Having traveled to regionals and seen what good refs can mean to the quality of our beloved sport, I saddens me to see what the kids have to deal with in our area. We have to ask ourselves why there isn't a strong group of young refs taking over for geriatric cases like me, whose knees are unfortunately the same age as the rest of us. I think the reason is that the players don't look up to very many refs. They are viewed as authoritarians who get their way, right or wrong, and who won't listen to what a player has to say. Every good ref I've seen has an open line of communication with the players. Players forgive missed calls. They don't forgive ignorance, perceived bias, or incompetence.

 

The most missed serious calls? Violent contact from behind. Aggressive play through the legs of the man in possession. Late challenge with no possibility of legally playing the ball.

 

Missed offsides and obstruction are pains in the butt, sure, but they never cause injury.

 

I agree...plays from behind can be dangerous!!! They are not necessary and should never be tolerated. When a ref does card someone for it, no one who knows the game should complain or wonder why. Another thing that really bothers me, but is rarely enforced is this: When a foul is called and the team that commited the foul stands right in front of the ball...nothing even close to 10 yards! I have seen players stand directly in front of the ball and then say "He didn't ask for 10 yards". While it seems like a great tactic, it can kill advantage. A player should not be warned- that is a immediate yellow if I am the ref. Remember, I'm not talking about when someone is 6 or 7 yards back. I mean when someone stands within 1 or 2 yards. And how many times have you seen a ref mark off 10 yards, point to the spot and then as he moves out of the way the defending team takes a couple steps forward?? Again, if it was me--yellows for everybody!!! I need to be a ref!! /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

[Soccer Gypsy]

Dangerous plays are the only thing I get upset about anymore. I guess somedays I am just happy to have a center out there. Bad calls and missed calls are part of the game and as someone said they are human, just like the fans and the players. I will say for every bad call I have seen in my years, I have also seen people complain just as much about a proper call.

 

One thing I always do at the beginning of the season is set up a game and ask the official not to give us any calls, unless it is a dangerous play. I even ask for them to make up a call or two. My players always look at me strange when I tell them after the game, but I want them to learn missed calls and bad calls are part of the game and they can't let that take them away from their game. Usually by the middle of the season they learn not to expect a single call going their way.

 

Now I have done my fair share of barking at officials, but since I never plan on doing it, I have learned not to complain to much about them.

[BigG]

QUOTE(stevescarb @ Mar 16 2007 - 07:56 PM) 826414662[/snapback]If it was brutal, it was because you as a ref let it be brutal.

 

 

Wow. So you have control over every game you ref? That is a great talent. We need more refs like that.

 

I agree with takedown3... the problems occur when the players let the refs "get to them" it just goes downhill fast. I'm not excusing bad reffing, but continually bashing them year after year gets a bit old.

 

Every ref should strive to be a roll model, teach something, and learn something in every game. Listen to the players and accept the fact that they are aware of things you aren't aware of. if you are making good decisions and explaining your calls you'll get respect.

 

 

This is a great thing to have, but realistically, how many refs (even in the pro leagues) do this? Now, should we strive for this, of course. Should we expect it? I think you will be in for a frustrating game if you do.

 

The thing I would like most of all from refs is consistancy.

[repete]

QUOTE(stevescarb @ Mar 16 2007 - 09:56 PM) 826414662[/snapback]I have reffed before, in college tournaments. Talk about brutal. While overusing the expression, my hat goes off to the refs in TN. I might not agree with their calls, but we couldn't have games without them. We also are running out of refs (notice the 2 man system running more and more) Ever wonder why? Because mostly, all we do is complain.

 

If it was brutal, it was because you as a ref let it be brutal.

 

As for fewer refs...I think you're taking the easy way out. We have fewer refs because after seeing the ones we have, very few young players want to be like them.

 

Having said that, I have my ref cert card. Both my kids play and carry a ref cert.

 

 

I applaud you and challenge you to improve on and off the field, having a ref cert isn't the end. I also think that more youth should certify. This will make them better players, and more respectful as I have observed. Spectators and coaches that discourage youth referees by criticizing them do a disservice to the game as well. Referees can be teachers and role models too. Referees are held to a high standard as noted, including ethics regarding criticizing other referees when not working games. We have to support each other even off the field to improve the game overall.

 

Its a cop out to say we have fewer refs because our youth dont want to be like the bad ones. We have fewer youth wanting to be referees because its a position where they see people will get on them. Those that take up the challenge see developing leadership and courage as opportunities. Maybe we have more youth wanting to be doctors and lawyers (some are refs too) because young people only see what society shows - money, and want that. They dont see the hard work, the sacrifice, drive and dedication it takes to obtain and maintain excellence. There are no short cuts. People that referee are doing it for a variety of reasons. The more successful do it because they care about the players and the game and work hard to improve. There are politics also. Has anyone really given thought to why the Bearden, Houston, CAK, games get the more experienced officials?

 

I know some of you personally and respect you and you respect me. In a customer oriented service, the players are our customers. You have a hard job. I have a hard job. We are both try to be very good at our jobs. When I show up for a game, I would rather they say "thanks we have you today", versus "(expletive) not you again!" as I have had both. It gets more difficult to do the higher level as we age and our bodies break down. We are out there with people maybe a third our age. We work alot of games, some over 200 a year, because there is a tremendous shortage of officials. I have well over a thousand games in my career. I make mistakes too. I try not to let them affect the outcome of the game. The JV game where the refs made the mistake did not affect the outcome of the game.

 

In the final analysis, the game is for the players, not the coaches, not the referees. Refs work to an unwritten rule, that they are not to interject too much to spoil the enjoyment of the game. This is a double edge sword, since at most only 50% will agree with them. We in America really have only scratched the surface of this game, the way the rest of the world views it. It is truely a beautiful game, one that needs nourishing, in play, coaching, and officiating. At the highest international level, it can also be a war, figuratively with nations and people pitted against each other. Our games in TN are nothing near like that.

 

Referees are guardians of the spirit of the game, striving for safe, fun and fair, which must be in delicate balance between flow of the game and control.

 

My hats off to coaches who support the people calling games, and to those that are working for the good of the game.