Hats off to the Refs, but...

[halfnelson]

/thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" /> First of all, let me start off by stating the obvious, refs have a hard job. They have to deal with so many attitudes, issues, etc. from coaches, wrestlers , parents, etc. Sometimes, the pay does not make up for the crap that refs have to put up with. They are expected to be perfect in calling matches. Refs are human and make mistakes. They may or may not see things during a match. They have bad days on the job like everyone else.

But what happens when consistency becomes an issue during a match. For example, anyone that was @ Beech last night knows what I am talking about. "Fleeing the mat," stalling, wrong scores, etc. were some of the issues. In a few matches each team had the same scenario but one team was hit with penalty points and the others were not. The ref lacked consistency. If you are hitting wrestlers for "fleeing the mat", stalling, etc. be consistent across the board. Maybe this ref had a bad day. I am not trying to bash the refs, merely expressing my views. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":rolleyes:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

[reftn]

Wait!

 

The inference is that we are not perfect??

 

Once I don the new grey, pinstriped shirt displaying the emblem of TSSAA, pull my wrists through the green and red wrist bands, you dont see the annointing of perfection coming down from on high (directly from Lebanon Road)?

 

The other night I hit a kid for fleeing, both of them, same moment. One stood up walked off the mat with the other kid followed him right off the mat. One made no attempt to stay on the other made no attempt to keep him on. So that made everybody mad.

 

 

But consider this. We are constantly recruiting new refs. The other associations stay relatively the same. MTWOA is approaching 50-60 members. This association covers 6 of 10 regions in our state. There are likely more TSSAA officals in this association than the other associations combined. So what are the possiblities of errors? Further, how else are they going to learn?

 

I drive alot in my job, maybe 45,000 miles per year. My wife drives maybe 12,000. Who has a better opportunity for having an accident or ticket? Yeah, she doesnt want to believe that either, but its the truth.

 

I would match the top ten officials in middle tn against the top ten in any other association, provided they have at least ten officials.

 

I would further challenge the other regions of the state to promote wrestling and enjoy the growth in your regions that we have in middle tn. I think we are booking over 150 schools or more now. I would trade the poor stalling calls for the growth we have here any day. That said, poor stalling calls arent a bad problem to have, we will overcome that in time. You have to have wrestling to have stalling, so the question becomes, when will the other regions have zero stalling because they have zero wrestling?

 

I tip my hat to my fellow officials in middle tn. You make the committment to promote the sport as a whole while learning, ongoing, to better yourself.

[wristbar]

reftn,

I usually respect your posts a great deal. However, to hear that you hit two kids for fleeing at the same moment in time makes me question your judgment. Is that even possible? Unless they went off the mat at entirely different areas, I dont believe so. Granted, I wasnt there, but this sounds fishy.

[clintabbott]

I wish that all people that are criical of officials would pay the fee and put on the stripes. I officiated for a long time, ask reftn, and I was never perfect, but I worked hard and I knew the rules and I was in position to make the call. Get off your duff and go to work. All refereeing groups need new blood. Clint Abbott- reffed for 42 years.

[halfnelson]

I wish that all people that are criical of officials would pay the fee and put on the stripes. I officiated for a long time, ask reftn, and I was never perfect, but I worked hard and I knew the rules and I was in position to make the call. Get off your duff and go to work. All refereeing groups need new blood. Clint Abbott- reffed for 42 years.

 

Read my post again. It appears to me that you have totally ignored a portion of my post. Stop being so defensive about me expressing my views. No one expects the refs to be perfect(speaking for myself). In any job, there is always room for improvement. My duff collects no dust because it is always working. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[halfnelson]

No one is perfect. People make mistakes. There is always room for error. There is always room for growth and learning. Your post adds to my point about refs having to put up with so much. Maybe, I should have left out my view about consistency, then everyone would be satisfied. But I did not and will not. I respect that you are standing by your calls, but at the same time recognizing that there is room for error.Learning cannot be fully experienced without trial and error.

Wait!

 

The inference is that we are not perfect??

 

Once I don the new grey, pinstriped shirt displaying the emblem of TSSAA, pull my wrists through the green and red wrist bands, you dont see the annointing of perfection coming down from on high (directly from Lebanon Road)?

 

The other night I hit a kid for fleeing, both of them, same moment. One stood up walked off the mat with the other kid followed him right off the mat. One made no attempt to stay on the other made no attempt to keep him on. So that made everybody mad.

But consider this. We are constantly recruiting new refs. The other associations stay relatively the same. MTWOA is approaching 50-60 members. This association covers 6 of 10 regions in our state. There are likely more TSSAA officals in this association than the other associations combined. So what are the possiblities of errors? Further, how else are they going to learn?

 

I drive alot in my job, maybe 45,000 miles per year. My wife drives maybe 12,000. Who has a better opportunity for having an accident or ticket? Yeah, she doesnt want to believe that either, but its the truth.

 

I would match the top ten officials in middle tn against the top ten in any other association, provided they have at least ten officials.

 

I would further challenge the other regions of the state to promote wrestling and enjoy the growth in your regions that we have in middle tn. I think we are booking over 150 schools or more now. I would trade the poor stalling calls for the growth we have here any day. That said, poor stalling calls arent a bad problem to have, we will overcome that in time. You have to have wrestling to have stalling, so the question becomes, when will the other regions have zero stalling because they have zero wrestling?

 

I tip my hat to my fellow officials in middle tn. You make the committment to promote the sport as a whole while learning, ongoing, to better yourself.

[mcwrestler]

I officiated for a year after I left High School and it is not easy stuff and we are not perfect, like you have previously said. Consitency is needed but they will slip up. Sometimes a ref will not call stalling if the kid is just being dominated or overpowered. I don't know the situation at Beech so I don't know what exactly happened.

 

It is still early in the year, especially if the ref is new and they will get better as they go. It takes trial and error.

[halfnelson]

I officiated for a year after I left High School and it is not easy stuff and we are not perfect, like you have previously said. Consitency is needed but they will slip up. Sometimes a ref will not call stalling if the kid is just being dominated or overpowered. I don't know the situation at Beech so I don't know what exactly happened.

 

It is still early in the year, especially if the ref is new and they will get better as they go. It takes trial and error.

 

I totally agree. /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

[2seamfastball]

REFS are human as we all make mistakes- now from waht i ve seen on here its alwys the refs fault when somebody loses thats not supposed to lose. when the big stud,undefeated,state champion or whatever he or she is loses it somebody elses fault, i ve seen some bad calls and got jumped on for mentioning them.

[tnsmokediver]

Wait!

 

The inference is that we are not perfect??

 

Once I don the new grey, pinstriped shirt displaying the emblem of TSSAA, pull my wrists through the green and red wrist bands, you dont see the annointing of perfection coming down from on high (directly from Lebanon Road)?

 

The other night I hit a kid for fleeing, both of them, same moment. One stood up walked off the mat with the other kid followed him right off the mat. One made no attempt to stay on the other made no attempt to keep him on. So that made everybody mad.

But consider this. We are constantly recruiting new refs. The other associations stay relatively the same. MTWOA is approaching 50-60 members. This association covers 6 of 10 regions in our state. There are likely more TSSAA officals in this association than the other associations combined. So what are the possiblities of errors? Further, how else are they going to learn?

 

I drive alot in my job, maybe 45,000 miles per year. My wife drives maybe 12,000. Who has a better opportunity for having an accident or ticket? Yeah, she doesnt want to believe that either, but its the truth.

 

I would match the top ten officials in middle tn against the top ten in any other association, provided they have at least ten officials.

 

I would further challenge the other regions of the state to promote wrestling and enjoy the growth in your regions that we have in middle tn. I think we are booking over 150 schools or more now. I would trade the poor stalling calls for the growth we have here any day. That said, poor stalling calls arent a bad problem to have, we will overcome that in time. You have to have wrestling to have stalling, so the question becomes, when will the other regions have zero stalling because they have zero wrestling?

 

I tip my hat to my fellow officials in middle tn. You make the committment to promote the sport as a whole while learning, ongoing, to better yourself.

 

 

I have calledwith reftn on several occaisions, and enjoyed each and every one. I have learned alot form him each time I have stepped on the mat with him. As for hitting two kids for fleeing at the same time......given the description of the situation....he read the book better than me, and is correct in the situation. Sometimes it takes guts to make the calls that aren't always popular and this guy can do it as well as anyone in the state.

 

Now, my question is, what's up with the gray shirt. If you notice my location I am not able to call this year and did not attend the meeting pre season. I was in for the opening week of pre season stuff and went to the Science Hill takedown tourney, but saw all black and white.

 

And Clint....you said you officiated for 42 years....that doesn't add up. REFTN said you called a match between Abe Lincoln and someone back in the day....? You called alot of my matches in High School and were one of the ones I loved to see come to the mat during a tournament. Thanks for sticking around as long as you have! It still is good to see you around the mat when you do come, if for nothing else but to observe.

[cbg]

I have calledwith reftn on several occaisions, and enjoyed each and every one. I have learned alot form him each time I have stepped on the mat with him. As for hitting two kids for fleeing at the same time......given the description of the situation....he read the book better than me, and is correct in the situation. Sometimes it takes guts to make the calls that aren't always popular and this guy can do it as well as anyone in the state.

 

Now, my question is, what's up with the gray shirt. If you notice my location I am not able to call this year and did not attend the meeting pre season. I was in for the opening week of pre season stuff and went to the Science Hill takedown tourney, but saw all black and white.

 

And Clint....you said you officiated for 42 years....that doesn't add up. REFTN said you called a match between Abe Lincoln and someone back in the day....? You called alot of my matches in High School and were one of the ones I loved to see come to the mat during a tournament. Thanks for sticking around as long as you have! It still is good to see you around the mat when you do come, if for nothing else but to observe.

 

 

 

I want to be gentle with this subject so please bear with me. Most Tennessee officials are not very good but it's not because they don't give it a good effort. Ask yourself a few questions: How many officials wrestled in college and gained that type of experience and understanding of the sport. Have the officials ever attended one of the NCAA rules weekends where they learn the mechanics of how to be a good official. Most TSSAA officials attend their local chapter rules meetings but mechanics and where to be on the mat is probably not covered and if it is who is doing the teaching? The person teaching most often has not ever been given the proper instruction. When Tennessee had MTSU, UTC, UT Martin, Tennessee Tech and The University of Tennessee with D1 programs they had better officials due to the fact that most former wrestlers became a coach or an official after college. Those men had been around a higher level of wrestling than high school & middle school and developed a deeper understanding of the sport. One of the things that I have seen in the past is that many times a good official is considered a poor official in Tennessee because they don't officiate like the local guy's that everyone feels is good. These men don't allow anything to slide during the match and they are very professional at all times. Another issue that needs to be looked at is the officials being several pounds overweight. I am starting to see officials being 40 to 50 pounds overweight and they are not quick enough to be in position to make the proper call during a big match. If you are going to put on the stripes loose a little weight and get into some type of condition where you don't have 25% body fat and you are able to move.

 

The last thing that I wish to say is that with the coaches/athletes working hard and attending camps and clinics should we expect any less for the officials. Yes, it does cost money to attend officials clinics and camps but I didn't know that anyone got into this sport for the money.

[BoroRef]

CBG:

 

You did not handle the subject gently. And honestly I, for one, am offended. You reek of someone that is not originally from the area and therefore sounds like you have a predisposition towards the local officials. If I am wrong I stand corrected and apologize. But I believe no apology will be needed. I think that Middle TN and the Chattanooga area (along with some very solid officials in East TN) have some very experienced and more than capable officiating. That is not say we are perfect by no means and furthermore not beyond additional training (more is always better). But you make obsevration regarding training without any basis whatsoever. You never indicate what qualifies you to criticize officials in this area/state. The weight issue I completely agree with. A several officials do not have the neccessary physicals abilities to get around as much as they should be able to (which is something I will never allow myself to be accused of). Wrestling in college or being trained by the NCAA does not automatically mean we are not good officials or not capable of becoming one with training (which we have), mentorship and experience. And as for your last comment I wonder where you was when I was attending a state (TSSAA) clinic in the fall to become a better official and attending the preseason meetings as well.