Stalling explained by the xperts!

[2blLeg]

2blLeg,

 

If you saw the match he was referring to it was well deserved. The running was very blatant. While I agree that most heavyweight matches are pushing and locking up a good idea can tell the difference. In this case, you didn't need a good eye. Even if you are trying to stall to avoid getting pinned you have to at a minimum make it look like you are attempting something, there was no attempt in this match.

 

 

Ok, and i'm not disagreeing. No, I left prior to that match, and I trust your judgement on this one, but have seen it in so many cases where I don't feel either of the guy's is trying to do much. Not trying to defend any action in particular, just saying that the rule needs to have more set of criteria and not so much a judgement on the ref's part.

[gonavy2]

An elbow lock or a turned arm to the chest is not shooting for a take down.In my example neither wrestler was shooting for a take down.I think pushing a weaker wrestler off the mat is bad for the sport .I also think allowing your self to be pushed off the mat is also sorry wrestling.

 

 

This is great stuff! Thanks for the info! I guess it comes down to the ref, and the "eyes of the beholder", whether the takedown on the edge happens or not, or if the "well-coached" wrestler is avoiding a takedown by squirming off of the mat (as opposed to the call of fleeing). When it does come down to the ref, we all know they are trying, and many factors would come to play (long day, distracted, reacting to coaches, level of experience, confidence, being decisive, etc.) . What I hate to see is matches decided by penalty points for these moving/lack of moving violations, and it looks even worse when it is inconsistent mat-to-mat. One match I saw at the D2 duals was basically decided by two stalling points (didn't have a dog in that fight, don't remeber the details). Having said all of this, my hat is off to all of the refs, and as I say, we overlook "bad" calls when they are in our favor.

[walkenvol]

WrestlingLover and ghouse - How can you say the red hvy was running away when he had both hands on the back of the FR's head for much of the match? If he was running he would have been pushing away from FR's chest or shoulders or not touching FR at all. Surely you've seen taller wrestlers utilize the strategy or pulling down the shorter wrester's head before? The shorter and stronger wrestler simply came forward pushing the taller guy backwards instead of bending over - a huge difference then the picture you guys are painting.

 

I've been heavily involved in wrestling for over 35+ years from youth leagues to college. All these matches operate from the same basic set of criteria for stalling. In all that time I can recall only 2 other matches stopped for stalling and one of those was because the wrestler had a meltdown and refused to return to the center of the mat. The other occured late late in the 3rd period. This match was stopped in the 2nd period - never happens...never. He called the 1st stalling 20 something seconds into the match - for heavyweight???

 

While we all can debate what is or is not stalling, I think we can all agree the most important thing is for it to be called somewhat consistently. No one at the D2 duals can say with a straight face that the one ref was even remotely consistent with all the others - not just in the 275 match. Either all the other refs need to be retrained or this one guy needs to get in line with everyone else so the wrestlers will know what to expect.

[taketop]

Gotta disagree Red1. If you're not moving forward or circling, you are moving backwards. We've all seen matches where one wrestler never makes a move toward his opponent. The wrestler that is afraid to take a shot, and continues to backpeddle should be penalized.

 

 

I disagree. I believe the rule book states that pushing someone out or not letting them back in is considered stalling.

[taketop]

AS coaching stalling might help a team win a dual meet, it is horrible to watch and frankly kind of cowardly. If all wrestlers were coached to not stall and be agressive (and then penalized by the refs if they did) the sport would be much more fun to watch and bring in bigger crowds. To coach kids to stall is unethical. OASIS!!!! MAKE IT WINNABLE!!!

[BoroRef]

Walkenvol:

 

I ,for one, vehemently disagree with you. There were some very good ref's at the DII duals. As far as I saw stalling was called pretty fairly. Agreed as stated before it is somewhat subjective (although it should not be) the calls were good and in line. You might not like what you saw in the HWT match but to say the other officials need to be "retrained" is a joke.

[walkenvol]

BoroRef - I wouldn't expect you to agree since your history on this board always sides with whatever the official did. If I'm wrong and you can produce one of your posts where you called out an official then I will gladly appologize. Where did I say all the refs were bad at the d2 state duals.....didn't happen. What I did say was a single official called stalling at a minimum of twice and probably 3 times the frequency of the average of the rest of the officiating crew. Again it is fruitless to debate what is or is not stalling, but surely we all can agree it is quite reasonable for a wrestler to have stalling called somewhat consistently between officials?

[jakesdad]

AS coaching stalling might help a team win a dual meet, it is horrible to watch and frankly kind of cowardly. If all wrestlers were coached to not stall and be agressive (and then penalized by the refs if they did) the sport would be much more fun to watch and bring in bigger crowds. To coach kids to stall is unethical. OASIS!!!! MAKE IT WINNABLE!!!

 

 

I??™m not sure it??™s unethical for a coach to encourage stalling in a dual meet, otherwise I agree with your theme. I heard a story once of a prominent Chattanooga Coach who was so displeased with his own wrestler??™s lack of aggression in a match ??“ he demanded that the official call stalling (on his own wrestler). I??™d like to see more of that.

[taketop]

I??™m not sure it??™s unethical for a coach to encourage stalling in a dual meet, otherwise I agree with your theme. I heard a story once of a prominent Chattanooga Coach who was so displeased with his own wrestler??™s lack of aggression in a match ??????" he demanded that the official call stalling (on his own wrestler). I??™d like to see more of that.

 

 

 

I say unethical only because it is plainly stated as illegal in the rule book. Teaching a wrestler to do something that one knows is against the rules and the spirit of the sport is unethical in my opinion. I heard that story about Brands too. Funny stuff

[WrestlingLover]

WrestlingLover and ghouse - How can you say the red hvy was running away when he had both hands on the back of the FR's head for much of the match? If he was running he would have been pushing away from FR's chest or shoulders or not touching FR at all. Surely you've seen taller wrestlers utilize the strategy or pulling down the shorter wrester's head before? The shorter and stronger wrestler simply came forward pushing the taller guy backwards instead of bending over - a huge difference then the picture you guys are painting.

 

I've been heavily involved in wrestling for over 35+ years from youth leagues to college. All these matches operate from the same basic set of criteria for stalling. In all that time I can recall only 2 other matches stopped for stalling and one of those was because the wrestler had a meltdown and refused to return to the center of the mat. The other occured late late in the 3rd period. This match was stopped in the 2nd period - never happens...never. He called the 1st stalling 20 something seconds into the match - for heavyweight???

 

While we all can debate what is or is not stalling, I think we can all agree the most important thing is for it to be called somewhat consistently. No one at the D2 duals can say with a straight face that the one ref was even remotely consistent with all the others - not just in the 275 match. Either all the other refs need to be retrained or this one guy needs to get in line with everyone else so the wrestlers will know what to expect.

 

 

Walkenvol,

 

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. It was obvious to me from the start this young man wasn't interested in wrestling the FR Hvy. The referee didn't need to wait until the 3rd period. This rule is there for a reason, and it fit here.

[2blLeg]

Walkenvol,

 

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. It was obvious to me from the start this young man wasn't interested in wrestling the FR Hvy. The referee didn't need to wait until the 3rd period. This rule is there for a reason, and it fit here.

 

 

Let me ask this question. (I did not see that match, so I'm simply asking the questions)

 

How was it so obvious to you that he wasn't interested in wrestling the FR Hwy? What was it that gave you this opinion 20 seconds into the match?

[WrestlingLover]

Let me ask this question. (I did not see that match, so I'm simply asking the questions)

 

How was it so obvious to you that he wasn't interested in wrestling the FR Hwy? What was it that gave you this opinion 20 seconds into the match?

 

 

I'd challenge someone who has this tape to post it on YouTube and give us the link. I think the overwhelming majority of posters on Coach T would agree this guy never made any move other than backwards from the beginning. Bottom line is good call by the ref.