Top Coaches from the Mid State

[Mr knowitall]

That is why I quit coaching travel ball becaue I feel it is more important to be in church than the softball field! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

I'm sure our High School team had many things to do on that Sunday also. Some parents hit them a few balls, I hope that was not some sort of TSSAA violation.

 

There are some great coaches out there.....not everyone has them.

[MrNoitAll]

I'm sure our High School team had many things to do on that Sunday also. Some parents hit them a few balls, I hope that was not some sort of TSSAA violation.

 

There are some great coaches out there.....not everyone has them.

 

 

 

You are right this was a violation of the TSSAA.....I guess my first question is why was he not there if he called it and what did the school say about it?? /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[FridayMainEvent]

You two do not need to be debating any issues! I didn't read the posters name close enough at first and thought one of you was having a conversation with yourself until I finally noticed the spelling.......LOL

[MrNoitAll]

You two do not need to be debating any issues! I didn't read the posters name close enough at first and thought one of you was having a conversation with yourself until I finally noticed the spelling.......LOL

 

 

 

You are hurting my feelings Cascade 11..........................! why would you say those things about a friend of a friend?? I would love to email you but then the mask would be off.....I am sure that I can trust you but then it would take the fun out of it! but please do not be so hard on my spelling I am a Home Ed teacher! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[dore83]

dore,

Yes, there is much better talent on most of the summer travel teams. Most high school coaches know that. There are many high school coaches and teams that benefit from the travel ball girls. Why are you bashing the high school coaches? Sure there are lots of travel ball coaches who know the game bettter. However, I would think you would be hard pressed to find a high school coach who wants his team to lose. Maybe you could coach better than whoever is coaching your daughters team, but there is not much you can do about it. Just enjoy the game and encourage your team. Remember, whether or not your daughter's high school coach knows much ball he or she is spending lots of time with your kids rather than their own right now. Try a pat on the back and a word of encouragement instead of complaining. Just a thought.

 

 

I wasn't actually bashing high school coaches. And, although it has been twisted a bit from what I wrote and twisted a lot from what I intended to communicate, I didn't indicate that any high school coach wants to lose. And how you turned all that into me somehow being upset about my daughter's high school coach and not being helpful or encouraging (and even worse spending my time complaining) when not of that is accurate. In the real world, I actually think my daughter's high school coach is pretty good. I haven't seen enough of this particular coach enough to know for sure, but so far, I haven't seen anything to make me form a negative opinion.

 

The clown prince listed a bunch of coaches as "great" and "best" with the criteria for his list being trips to the state tournament. I've known and seen many of those coaches for years. There are a couple in particular receiving high praise from the clown prince who are absolutely horrible. Neither has coached my daughter. They win because of the travel ball talent. But they demean kids, grind their confidence to shreds, and do very little teaching of the game. A lot of what they do "teach" is actually detrimental to their game. Their lineups and positioning are determined by whatever parent bends their ear the most or has the most perceived power. At least they are earning a lot of money for individual instructors who are paid to correct the damage, and earning a lot of cudos for travel coaches who spend the first month of the summer getting their head turned back around right after the disaster that was high school softball.

 

I'm appreciative that a teacher/coach would be willing to spend a lot of time with our kids. That is commendable. But there are plenty of ways for them to accomplish that. They can teach Sunday School or volunteer with their church youth group. They can serve as a club sponsor/advisor. They can volunteer at a local youth center. Wonder how your school chorus parents would react if a tone deaf teacher took the chorus coach position. Or band director. Or drama teacher. They would be furious. They'd appreciate the willingness to work with kids, but they certainly not appreciate the lack of training and development of their students coming from the teacher's lack of ability, knowledge, skill, or experience. Spending time with them, ordering uniforms, raising money, coordinating schedules, etc. are all great things and are a required part of the job, but none of those things qualify an individual as a coach. It qualifies them as a coordinator or a supervisor, or an Athletic Director perhaps, but not as a coach. Teaching the game and training athletes is the primary qualifier. Even worse is that some, not all, but some, of these kids actually do have a shot at college softball and maintain that goal. Stick a tone deaf "time spender, fund raiser" no knowledge band instructor in with a talented solo trumpet player with college band and professional musician potential for 4 years and write back to tell me how much that kid benefitted from teaching himself and paying tons for additional instruction - and how enjoyable or beneficial those 4 years were to him/her and the rest of a completely disgusted band. It is no different.

 

I'm sure some of the people on this board will dispute the claim, but I am 100% convinced that high school ball for a lot of kids at a lot of schools - some of which are directed by the Top NoKnowNothing list actually step BACKWARD, both from a skills and mental aspect during the high school season under these time spenders. There is a big difference between a coach "wanting" to lose, and being a detriment to their team. Why don't I stop the quote a bit earlier to take out the confusion. Several of the coaches on this list have teams that win in spite of them. Some coaches really don't need to be working with kids at all. Some simply don't need to be coaching softball. Might be a great teacher or a counselor, or fund raiser, or organizer, but they aren't coaches.

[hssportsfan]

Very well said dore, and sorry if I twisted your words. I guess I have seen too many bitter softball dads over the years who are never happy with high school ball. Its not an easy problem to solve. Many schools have only added softball within the last 20 years or so and there just aren't enough talented coaches to go around. Many are forced or strong armed into coaching because there is nobody else willing to do it. Then these folks sometimes have to endure the wrath of the "softball dads". Not a pleasant situation to be in. I wish they would move softball to the fall where the girls could come right out of summer ball and just play and have fun on the school team.

 

I think sometimes the dads are bitter about the HS coaches getting the recognition even though most of the skills are learned before they ever get them. Most HS coaches will readily admit this. However, the newspapers and other local media only want to report on school teams, district races, and state tourneys even though there is a much higher level of ball being played on the travel teams without the publicity. Just the nature of the beast.

[FridayMainEvent]

Wow......I can't argue with most of that. Like you said, there are some that are qualified and some that are not. It is the same with soccer from what I can tell. Probably more so, with soccer. It isn't a sport that many of us middle age people grew up around and although it is gaining in popularity each year, there aren't enough qualified faculty to teach and coach it. Once you get passed the sports of Football and Basketball, the coaching level tapers off for many schools.

[DCdawg]

For the most part I try and stay out of the corn flakes of these posts and use them strictly for reading enjoyment. More times than not I find the information is very resourceful. This post however, has hit pretty close to home and I just have to comment.

 

Having coached in both the High School (HS) and Travel Ball (TB) arenas I am having a difficult time with a mentality that seems to be placing HS and TB on opposing sides? In theory, they should support each other although TSSAA regulations are making that proposition increasingly more difficult. Unless things have changed since I was involved in TB we only would have a couple of quality practices a week in preparation for the weekend tourney. Occasionally as we got closer to State/Nationals we would add a day of practice. In HS we are either playing or practicing everyday (sometimes Sunday's) trying to limit practice time to under 2.5 hours in order to allow for homework and test preparation. In TB we would try-out or handpick 12 fundamentally sound players from all over the mid-state. In HS we expand a team from year to year to 18-20 players picking up a new crop of freshman from a defined geographic territory that have to ride the learning curve for sometimes as much as 3 years depending on their ability. It is much easier to conduct a quality practice with 12 sound ball players than it is with 20 players of varying skill levels.

 

I am now into my 6th year of coaching HS Softball which is a short amount of time compared to most of the great coaches (of which there are many) in the mid-state area. When I first started we were lucky to have 1 or 2 travel ball players where now the majority of our team dedicates their Summer to travel softball. I am glad to see ex college players like Natalie Brock (UT) and Erin Haggard (BSU) begin to stack Summer teams and compete at high levels. This is of great benefit to HS coaches but I do not believe that TB parents think we see it that way. You see, most TB players are not accustomed to having to compete for a position. They are usually selected by their TB team to play a position and receive very little if any competition at all in the field or at the plate. For better or for worse they play that position all Summer long. When they get to the HS team because they have played 'that" position all Summer there are expectations that nothing changes. I think that I speak for most HS coaches in saying that if its working, we'll continually tweak it to make it better but if on the other hand it ain't working we'll try and fix it. If we can't fix it we'll add competition. This is when the entire system turns upside down. The pressure of competition is why HS coaches get bashed. Some players are able to hang in and rebound while others selfishly turn in their uniforms. Naturally, the parents blame it on the HS Coaches because most cannot see the other side.

 

A very high profile College Coach told our group one year at a MTSCA meeting that the biggest problem with HS Coaches is that we do not prepare our players to play in College. That is why it is rare for a player to complete 4 years of playing Softball in College. They are just not mentally "tuff enough" and cannot endure competition.

 

Mr. Noitall you are a refreshing addition to this site. Although I don't agree with everything you say, for the most part you are right on. Lay off our buddy in LC though. He might send a posse after you.

[softballjunk]

Wow DCDawg you really gave yourself up. I figured it out from your past posts and then your reference to alumni Haggard and the fact that about half of your starters play for Brock. Your secret is safe with me. To your comments - competition is a great thing as long as the athletes are treated equally and fairly and within the same guidelines. As Dor said most of the high school coaches have a few parents bending there ears and make judgements that aren't best for the team. Just best for their "personal" gain. Most travel coaches do have alot of competition within their teams, now a days travel teams have 13 to 15 players if they are serious contendors, this allows for alot of competition in all positions. And beleive it or not, competition can be done where athletes are treated equally and not yelled and screamed at.

 

As far as not being prepared and being "mentally tough" enough, I beleive I attended that same clinic and you took it differently than I did. I took it to mean "mentally tough" to handle the game, handle the pressure, handle the work load, handle the adjustment into college, handle the workouts, not handle having some bozo coach yelling at them for "nothing". (Or for the the same thing that others do daily, and nothing is ever said to the "chosen" few players).

 

You need to understand we are under a horrible high school coach this year. With this hs coach this year, we talk about it to everyone and it seems this is more common than not. Beleive it or not alot of the teams that feel they have "horrible" hs coaches, their kids are playing. So I find that real interesting, so these feelings aren't from some kid sitting on the bench its from people and players that are in the game. That has been the most interesting fact about these people being so dissatisfied with their hs coaches.

 

Let me finish with I am sure that there are alot of very credited coaches in hs ball. I also realize the sacrifice that is made by these coaches and their families. All I am saying is that there are alot that have no business stepping on the diamond. For every great coach, there appears to be one mediocre one and one horrible one. I just wish we were fortunate to have atleast a mediocre one and dream of having a great one!!!!!! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[Mr knowitall]

Wow DCDawg you really gave yourself up. I figured it out from your past posts and then your reference to alumni Haggard and the fact that about half of your starters play for Brock. Your secret is safe with me. To your comments - competition is a great thing as long as the athletes are treated equally and fairly and within the same guidelines. As Dor said most of the high school coaches have a few parents bending there ears and make judgements that aren't best for the team. Just best for their "personal" gain. Most travel coaches do have alot of competition within their teams, now a days travel teams have 13 to 15 players if they are serious contendors, this allows for alot of competition in all positions. And beleive it or not, competition can be done where athletes are treated equally and not yelled and screamed at.

 

As far as not being prepared and being "mentally tough" enough, I beleive I attended that same clinic and you took it differently than I did. I took it to mean "mentally tough" to handle the game, handle the pressure, handle the work load, handle the adjustment into college, handle the workouts, not handle having some bozo coach yelling at them for "nothing". (Or for the the same thing that others do daily, and nothing is ever said to the "chosen" few players).

 

You need to understand we are under a horrible high school coach this year. With this hs coach this year, we talk about it to everyone and it seems this is more common than not. Beleive it or not alot of the teams that feel they have "horrible" hs coaches, their kids are playing. So I find that real interesting, so these feelings aren't from some kid sitting on the bench its from people and players that are in the game. That has been the most interesting fact about these people being so dissatisfied with their hs coaches.

 

Let me finish with I am sure that there are alot of very credited coaches in hs ball. I also realize the sacrifice that is made by these coaches and their families. All I am saying is that there are alot that have no business stepping on the diamond. For every great coach, there appears to be one mediocre one and one horrible one. I just wish we were fortunate to have atleast a mediocre one and dream of having a great one!!!!!! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[/quot

I think the really good High School coaches have no idea how bad the really bad coaches are!!!!!!! It really makes me jealous of a lot of the HS programs!!!! Travel ball is the same. We have had some good and bad. But the thing is in travel you can go find another team if it is not the right fit. (for whatever reason) I really can't move to get my daughter to a better HS program.

 

 

Good luck to all.

[PIGLETox23]

For the most part I try and stay out of the corn flakes of these posts and use them strictly for reading enjoyment. More times than not I find the information is very resourceful. This post however, has hit pretty close to home and I just have to comment.

 

Having coached in both the High School (HS) and Travel Ball (TB) arenas I am having a difficult time with a mentality that seems to be placing HS and TB on opposing sides? In theory, they should support each other although TSSAA regulations are making that proposition increasingly more difficult. Unless things have changed since I was involved in TB we only would have a couple of quality practices a week in preparation for the weekend tourney. Occasionally as we got closer to State/Nationals we would add a day of practice. In HS we are either playing or practicing everyday (sometimes Sunday's) trying to limit practice time to under 2.5 hours in order to allow for homework and test preparation. In TB we would try-out or handpick 12 fundamentally sound players from all over the mid-state. In HS we expand a team from year to year to 18-20 players picking up a new crop of freshman from a defined geographic territory that have to ride the learning curve for sometimes as much as 3 years depending on their ability. It is much easier to conduct a quality practice with 12 sound ball players than it is with 20 players of varying skill levels.

 

I am now into my 6th year of coaching HS Softball which is a short amount of time compared to most of the great coaches (of which there are many) in the mid-state area. When I first started we were lucky to have 1 or 2 travel ball players where now the majority of our team dedicates their Summer to travel softball. I am glad to see ex college players like Natalie Brock (UT) and Erin Haggard (BSU) begin to stack Summer teams and compete at high levels. This is of great benefit to HS coaches but I do not believe that TB parents think we see it that way. You see, most TB players are not accustomed to having to compete for a position. They are usually selected by their TB team to play a position and receive very little if any competition at all in the field or at the plate. For better or for worse they play that position all Summer long. When they get to the HS team because they have played 'that" position all Summer there are expectations that nothing changes. I think that I speak for most HS coaches in saying that if its working, we'll continually tweak it to make it better but if on the other hand it ain't working we'll try and fix it. If we can't fix it we'll add competition. This is when the entire system turns upside down. The pressure of competition is why HS coaches get bashed. Some players are able to hang in and rebound while others selfishly turn in their uniforms. Naturally, the parents blame it on the HS Coaches because most cannot see the other side.

 

A very high profile College Coach told our group one year at a MTSCA meeting that the biggest problem with HS Coaches is that we do not prepare our players to play in College. That is why it is rare for a player to complete 4 years of playing Softball in College. They are just not mentally "tuff enough" and cannot endure competition.

 

Mr. Noitall you are a refreshing addition to this site. Although I don't agree with everything you say, for the most part you are right on. Lay off our buddy in LC though. He might send a posse after you.

 

 

I agree with you...

[tide84]

Great question Cascade 11 I was going to do a topic on this one so here goes from MrNoitAll. These coaches are from the Mid State only!

1. Don Freundenthal--Ezell Harding more state titles than any coach in state!

 

2. Gary Davis-- Lipscomb--Has been to the state 7 times and won 2 or 3 times

 

3. Jeff Breeden--Riverdale--Has taken two different teams to the state. Never won but has been to the big dance.

 

4. Lee Phillips--Goodpasture--Enough said! Will win another one this year as well!

 

5. Phil Burkhart--Rossview--Has taken two different teams to state. Never won but also has been to the big dance.

 

6. Nancy Jackson--Creek Wood---Started a new program and has been to the big dance twice! One of the best female coaches in state!

 

7. Phil Davidson--Father Ryan---Has won the state and will have a great chance to do it again this year!

 

8. David Wood--Beech---Has been to the state.

 

9.Kacy Pedigo--MJ has finished second two years in a row.

 

10. Stephen Webb from Waverly--Has won a state championship!

 

11.Becky Cheatham from Forrest one of the best female coaches in the state!

 

12. Brentwood--Jamie Chiariello has been to the state two years in a row. Excellent coach!

 

13. Mike Caldwell-- Hume Fogg--Has taken two different teams to state!

 

14. Amy Stevens--Montery--Has taken her team to state once!

 

15. Shane Buchanan--Dickson County has won a state championship!

 

16. Erica Powell--Friendship Christian has been to state two straight years.

 

17. Julie Head---Greenbrier has won state and been to state several times before!

 

18. Bobby Wyrick of Summertown. 540 Victories, 22 District Championships, two final four appearences.

 

19. Stacy Swinea Davidson Academy 7 trips state 2runner-ups 1state championship

 

20. Andy Griffin--Hendersonville---Been to the state twice.

 

All of these coaches have one thing in common and that is that they all have been to state! I hope I have not left anyone off from the Mid State. /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

Cascade 11 I HAVE NOT IDEA WHO MrsKnownothing is!!! /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

 

Question: Is this list in ranking order from 1-20? If so I think the rankings should be looked at again based on actual performance at state. Also, you left off the coaches from JPII (who took a team from start up to 2nd in state in 2007 in the first 5 years of the programs existence as well as three state appearances) and the coach from Brentwood Academy who has also taken a couple of teams to state.