2008 Region III Results - Girls

[hamlet7478]

Mustcoach:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I think you hit on another issue that most knowledgeable soccer people would agree with you on. That is our HS system which is different from all others in the SE (maybe Nationally?). Not denying that HS is an important experience for the kids, but from the pure standpoint of developing the best elite players and teams, it's an impediment in TN.

 

Another thing you hit on which seems to be an emerging consensus is that for young kids, focus on skill development and not so much on winning and losing. This produces the best players later on.

 

As for the issue with parents living through their kids, I guess that's human nature and I don't know what the best cure for that is other than intensive therapy!

[wiredtowin]

If HS soccer is the "impediment" for TN, what is the excuse for FL, GA, LA, NC, OK, AL, AK failure against TX? Most of these states play HS on a non-fall basis? I've seen the issue from both sides and agree with most that have posted--good club soccer and good HS soccer complement each other. Bad club soccer or bad HS soccer hinder performance. TN's problem with TX is a population issue--the pool of talent in TX is deep...non-committed get weeded out, parental problems get weeded out, less skilled get weeded out. And the gap is not that wide--both TN U15 and U16 teams at regionals played their TX opponents in very close matches--I think all the games were decided by one goal, not more than two.

[MVM]

Here in TN instead we play for whomever gives our players the playing time instead of making them earn it and learn some life lesson for it. I just had a parent tell me that if his daughter didn't make our top team she would quit and go somewhere else. I coach both teams in that age group so it has nothing to do with who is coaching. It is all about "I think my kid is a superstar and I will dictate where she will play". Yea and guess where the kid got put and dear ole dad won't let his kid earn or work to play on the top team.

 

Mustcoach, I understand what you are saying, but let me take the other side. Why should I spend the money that club costs and the time, to watch my child ride the pine. When all I have to do is drive an extra 10 minutes to watch my kid play on another team. The problem is also between competing clubs and yes coaches taking 18 man rosters knowing that 13 players will get 99% of the playing time.

 

I have seen players that show up at every practice, be the first to pay their fees but come tournament time get 5 minutes of total playing time. I would have rather the coach to "man up" and cut the player.

 

Yes. I've coached and dealing with the kids was great.....dealing with some of the parents stunk. But I always tried to remember that I was not the only game in town.

[hamlet7478]

If HS soccer is the "impediment" for TN, what is the excuse for FL, GA, LA, NC, OK, AL, AK failure against TX? Most of these states play HS on a non-fall basis? I've seen the issue from both sides and agree with most that have posted--good club soccer and good HS soccer complement each other. Bad club soccer or bad HS soccer hinder performance. TN's problem with TX is a population issue--the pool of talent in TX is deep...non-committed get weeded out, parental problems get weeded out, less skilled get weeded out. And the gap is not that wide--both TN U15 and U16 teams at regionals played their TX opponents in very close matches--I think all the games were decided by one goal, not more than two.

 

 

MVM, Thank you for your reply.

 

II agree with you that population is a much greater factor in developing the very best elite teams (remember, that's what we're talking about here). And I think it's not population by State, per se, but whether a State has agglomerated a large portion of its population in major metropolitan areas. Thus TX, with about 23 million people is no doubt the strongest state in RIII, but the greater key to its succes is probably the fact that it has the 2 most populous metropolitan areas in RIII with Houston area and Dallas / FW area. Atlanta is probably the third strongest metropolitan area in the RIII from a soccer standpoint, and it has the fourth highest metropolitan population area. FL is a bit of a mystery. It is the second most populous state in RIII (by a factor of 2) with almost 18 million people, and they have two very large metropolitan population centers with the Miami area (5.4 million) and Tampa (2.7 million), yet they don't really generate the same number of champions as STX and NTX, or even GA and NC. I don't have a strong opinion why FL doesn't seem to match soccer success with its population. OK is another interesting state, one that overachieves. They have very strong teams (1 finalist and several semi-finalists) even though their state population is only 3.5 million. I would speculate that they are so strong because you could almost consider them an extension of North TX (really Dallas / FW) because their strongest clubs (and major population centers) are from OK City and Tulsa. These cities are about as far from Dallas / FW as Memphis and Knoxville are from Nashville, and the OK teams play in the Western sub-regional premier league.

 

Clearly there are some other factors at work, even if population is, in general, the most significant determinant of how good the very best teams are. Perhaps the way the HS and club teams complement each other is another factor, but maybe we make too much of it as you suggest. After all, TN is the 5th most populous state in RIII, and you'd probably rank them about there in soccer terms--behind TX, NC, GA, FL, and maybe OK. I would have to agree with you that good HS teams are much better for club teams than bad HS programs. A good general statement in TN might be that the HS are programs continuing to get better, so maybe we will continue to see improved club programs as the HS programs continue to improve.

[mustcoach]

Mustcoach, I understand what you are saying, but let me take the other side. Why should I spend the money that club costs and the time, to watch my child ride the pine. When all I have to do is drive an extra 10 minutes to watch my kid play on another team. The problem is also between competing clubs and yes coaches taking 18 man rosters knowing that 13 players will get 99% of the playing time.

 

I have seen players that show up at every practice, be the first to pay their fees but come tournament time get 5 minutes of total playing time. I would have rather the coach to "man up" and cut the player.

 

Yes. I've coached and dealing with the kids was great.....dealing with some of the parents stunk. But I always tried to remember that I was not the only game in town.

 

MVM

There is alot of right and wrong in the perception of what you say.

You are spending money for your child to get TRAINING. Hopefully it is good training. Bad training won't matter if your child still can't do it when they get to play. I tell my parents..."you are not paying for play time. You are paying for TRAINING. Your child will earn their playing time". Coaches should man up and let the parent/player know exactly where their child is in their skill level. I think that seperates the "Posers" as coaches and "REAL" coaches. Again can parents deal with the truth if the child is lacking. In my experience some can, most can't. Coaches need to tell parents "worst case scenario" in playing time, etc... From there anything more is "bonus". As far as taking 18 when 13 can do the job...you have to carry 15-18 just to plan for injuries, players missing, etc...If a coach is really interested in developing talent then he will get everyone some good quality time. If he is more interested in wins, he won't. That is where the "5 minutes" comes in.

The other side of that is at certain ages, over U14, and levels, D2 and above, players must realize where they are at. If it is a big game like State, Region or National Championship they may not get in.

Yes, there is more than one game in town. But is that other game better because your child gets to play more minutes? or because better coaching is available?

[MVM]

MVM

There is alot of right and wrong in the perception of what you say.

You are spending money for your child to get TRAINING. Hopefully it is good training. Bad training won't matter if your child still can't do it when they get to play. I tell my parents..."you are not paying for play time. You are paying for TRAINING. Your child will earn their playing time". Coaches should man up and let the parent/player know exactly where their child is in their skill level. I think that seperates the "Posers" as coaches and "REAL" coaches. Again can parents deal with the truth if the child is lacking. In my experience some can, most can't. Coaches need to tell parents "worst case scenario" in playing time, etc... From there anything more is "bonus". As far as taking 18 when 13 can do the job...you have to carry 15-18 just to plan for injuries, players missing, etc...If a coach is really interested in developing talent then he will get everyone some good quality time. If he is more interested in wins, he won't. That is where the "5 minutes" comes in.

The other side of that is at certain ages, over U14, and levels, D2 and above, players must realize where they are at. If it is a big game like State, Region or National Championship they may not get in.

Yes, there is more than one game in town. But is that other game better because your child gets to play more minutes? or because better coaching is available?

 

Mustcoach...I mostly agree with you. Parents don't realize that teams practice 2 to 3 times a week and might play a scrimmage every other week and do 2 touraments a month. The better your practice teammates are the better your child will become.

 

Now back to subject....Texas vs the rest of us.

 

I see alot of good points have been made. Hamlet seems to think the cause is population and I can't totally disagree. BUT I always have found the better clubs and club teams seem to come from high money areas. Don't have facts or figures but I would not be surprised if these teams are well bankrolled somehow.

[mustcoach]

If HS soccer is the "impediment" for TN, what is the excuse for FL, GA, LA, NC, OK, AL, AK failure against TX? Most of these states play HS on a non-fall basis? I've seen the issue from both sides and agree with most that have posted--good club soccer and good HS soccer complement each other. Bad club soccer or bad HS soccer hinder performance. TN's problem with TX is a population issue--the pool of talent in TX is deep...non-committed get weeded out, parental problems get weeded out, less skilled get weeded out. And the gap is not that wide--both TN U15 and U16 teams at regionals played their TX opponents in very close matches--I think all the games were decided by one goal, not more than two.

 

The HS "impediment" for almost all of those states is..."They still think HS soccer is the highest level of the sport in that state or at the very least its equal". TX does NOT! Bad HS soccer only affects club if that is the only club in town. Most likely I suspect that the bad club coaches in that area hurt the HS. Good clubs in your area make HS soccer better. HS soccer affects club only that I have to fix all the bad habits HS coaches allow. Not all of them BigG. Oh, my players come back fit and that is tremendous. The fact that they forgot that there is a MIDFIELD in our formation is a HUGE problem. LOL

GA, Ala, NC play HS soccer in the spring. TN does so in the fall. Fla plays in between the two so they get to do both seasons. I also think in Fla. HS players can still do club during the season. But there may be a limit on games, I am not sure.

The gap is "BIG" between the states. TN went 0-8-2 against TX. Outscored 16-4. Yes, in the U15 and 16 groups your stats are correct. If history repeats itself as these teams get older, the gap will grow.

But POPUALTION is the biggest reason.

[mustcoach]

Mustcoach...I mostly agree with you. Parents don't realize that teams practice 2 to 3 times a week and might play a scrimmage every other week and do 2 touraments a month. The better your practice teammates are the better your child will become.

 

Now back to subject....Texas vs the rest of us.

 

I see alot of good points have been made. Hamlet seems to think the cause is population and I can't totally disagree. BUT I always have found the better clubs and club teams seem to come from high money areas. Don't have facts or figures but I would not be surprised if these teams are well bankrolled somehow.

 

That last point of yours is a good one. I would lean to saying "yes" they are well bank rolled. Soccer in MY opinion has become somewhat of an "Eliteist" sport. The sport is not exposed to inner city or rural youth like it could be and even when done so most families don't have the disposable income to pay for it.

Most clubs have schlorships to help players. I still would like to see clubs set aside money to FULLY fund some players dues. Parents on teams tend to be willing to help out on tournaments with rides and rooms without the player in need having to chip in except for food. I saw some teams in NC that had sponsorships. Don't know what TN's guidlines on this are. Be nice to find out.

[cleansheet1]

MVM- you have posted one of the more ignorant comments I have read since observing this site!

 

The more successful ones are the ones with money? Are you kidding!

 

Just because someone belongs to a certain team does not put them in a certain tax bracket or enhances their wins and losses.

 

As I have stated before- it comes down to perfomance- during trianing, during the game and what are you doing after the training sessions. This all equates to ability. One can only hide for so long on reputation- you have to perform when called upon. Not show your parents W-2's!

[hamlet7478]

MVM- you have posted one of the more ignorant comments I have read since observing this site!

 

The more successful ones are the ones with money? Are you kidding!

 

Just because someone belongs to a certain team does not put them in a certain tax bracket or enhances their wins and losses.

 

As I have stated before- it comes down to perfomance- during trianing, during the game and what are you doing after the training sessions. This all equates to ability. One can only hide for so long on reputation- you have to perform when called upon. Not show your parents W-2's!

 

 

Hey cleansheet, I don't think MVM is saying that rich kids are better or anything like that. I thinks he's saying that the wealthier areas (middle class and above) are able to pay for travel, facilities, coaching, and equipment.

 

I happen to think that, like mustcoach said, we're missing lots of soccer gems in this country due to money. I know most of the well established clubs offer "scholarships", i.e. waiver of fees for promising kids whose families don't have the means. But even with these "scholarships", travel and equipment costs are too heavy a burden for many lower income families.

 

Just imagine the day in the future when the clubs have settled out for several years and have grown large enough to obtain significant sponsorships and they have the money to make sure no budding Pele has to be turned away because they can't afford to travel, buy uniforms, and pay club fees.

 

If this stability can be obtained, it will also be good for more coaches who will be able to make a solid living for themselves coaching and administrating clubs.

[MVM]

Hey cleansheet, I don't think MVM is saying that rich kids are better or anything like that. I thinks he's saying that the wealthier areas (middle class and above) are able to pay for travel, facilities, coaching, and equipment.

 

I happen to think that, like mustcoach said, we're missing lots of soccer gems in this country due to money. I know most of the well established clubs offer "scholarships", i.e. waiver of fees for promising kids whose families don't have the means. But even with these "scholarships", travel and equipment costs are too heavy a burden for many lower income families.

 

Just imagine the day in the future when the clubs have settled out for several years and have grown large enough to obtain significant sponsorships and they have the money to make sure no budding Pele has to be turned away because they can't afford to travel, buy uniforms, and pay club fees.

 

If this stability can be obtained, it will also be good for more coaches who will be able to make a solid living for themselves coaching and administrating clubs.

 

Thank you Hamlet you got my point.

 

A case in point several years ago while coaching in the Vulcan Cup we played a team from Massachusetts that had two weeks earlier played in a big tourny in Washington DC. When I inquired about how they could afford this, 4 parents were Doctors 2 were Lawyers and 1 owned a very successful business with a company plane...hence how they travelled. I would call that team Bank rolled.

 

By the way, we tied 2-2. We went out with high pressure and kept it up all game. Down 2-0 at the half, the heat got to them in the second half and we came back to make in even.

[MVM]

MVM- you have posted one of the more ignorant comments I have read since observing this site!

 

The more successful ones are the ones with money? Are you kidding!

 

Just because someone belongs to a certain team does not put them in a certain tax bracket or enhances their wins and losses.

 

As I have stated before- it comes down to perfomance- during trianing, during the game and what are you doing after the training sessions. This all equates to ability. One can only hide for so long on reputation- you have to perform when called upon. Not show your parents W-2's!

 

Cleansheet I think you missed my point.

 

It takes money to travel to the big touraments. It's takes money to get a QUALITY coach. It takes money to be in ODP. Money does not mean success.....but it doesn't hurt either.

 

Ask any club ask any coach, if someone or some company bank rolled a team, where they could travel to all the big tournaments across this country, and play the best teams week end and week out. How much better would your team be? MONEY...Yes it matters.