MBA vs. EHS (Mature Discussion)

[FD4Ldalegend]

when i look at mba and ensworth i see two disciplined hard core teams. last year mba beat ba twice not cause of talent but because of discipline. i remember the ensworth jv team had to do sprints after beating my team a couple years ago. ofcouse that could have been them showin off to us, or determination. i really want to see this game but cant. mba's D vs darkwa is what should give eihter team momentum. mba 17 ensworth 7. good close passion filled game.

[BigRedDad]

On the previous thread ehsfootballrules wrote:

In response to all of the people saying Ensworth scheduled a lot of weak opponents:

 

You are right. However, I think that there is a significant reason behind the decision that is not being mentioned. Games are scheduled as a home and home series, so this year's schedule is the same one that EHS played last year, with the only difference being the venue. Last year, EHS' team was filled with players from the school's first ever senior class. They took a significant risk in coming to the school, and they certainly weren't able to compete at a high level in their first few years. Also, the Class of 2008 played a large role in EHS' move up to the upper part of DII. As a result, I think that Coach Bowers felt a responsibility to those players to guarantee them some level of success. EHS wasn't expected to compete like they did last year against the likes of MBA, Father Ryan, BA, etc. so I think Bowers wanted to make sure that the Class of 2008 would have some victories to show for all of their sacrifices. The only problem with that was that now this year the current team is stuck playing the same schedule which was pretty weak early on in the year.

 

My response is: We will know for sure when we see next years schedule won't we?

 

 

I have one other point to make about your comment that last years seniors took a significant risk deciding to go to EHS. First of all I would point out that risk is a double edged sword, the greater the potential risk the greater the potential reward. Secondly when you look at the people behind forming the school they are clearly very successful people and the chances of the school being a bust were minimal, if that much. lastly last years seniors had the advantage of being coached by some of the finest coaches (I'm still sorry to lose Edd Caudill...it cost us a state championship in '04, you can have Ricky, I have said before I wouldn't trade 5 Ricky Bowers for 1 Jeff Rutledge and the same goes for Daniel McGugin...just my opinion, but that said Ricky is a good coach) in the state. They got more one on one attention then any freshman, Ingle Martin or R A Dickey ever got at MBA. Ricky seems to pretty much have carte' blanche' to get the players he needs. Plus those seniors got make the traditions, and be the first leaders. Not so much of a risk if you look at it that way.

[KWoodroof]

I have one other point to make about your comment that last years seniors took a significant risk deciding to go to EHS. First of all I would point out that risk is a double edged sword, the greater the potential risk the greater the potential reward. Secondly when you look at the people behind forming the school they are clearly very successful people and the chances of the school being a bust were minimal, if that much. lastly last years seniors had the advantage of being coached by some of the finest coaches (I'm still sorry to lose Edd Caudill...it cost us a state championship in '04, you can have Ricky, I have said before I wouldn't trade 5 Ricky Bowers for 1 Jeff Rutledge and the same goes for Daniel McGugin...just my opinion, but that said Ricky is a good coach) in the state. They got more one on one attention then any freshman, Ingle Martin or R A Dickey ever got at MBA. Ricky seems to pretty much have carte' blanche' to get the players he needs. Plus those seniors got make the traditions, and be the first leaders. Not so much of a risk if you look at it that way.

 

I have to agree on the risk point: Ensworth was an outstanding school before they added the high school. There was no reason to think that the high school wouldn't be the same quality as the junior school. The only risk was one of the caliber of football program for which they would play. One hopes the decision of what school to attend would turn on things a little more long term than the football program.

[my2to12]

I have one other point to make about your comment that last years seniors took a significant risk deciding to go to EHS. First of all I would point out that risk is a double edged sword, the greater the potential risk the greater the potential reward. Secondly when you look at the people behind forming the school they are clearly very successful people and the chances of the school being a bust were minimal, if that much. lastly last years seniors had the advantage of being coached by some of the finest coaches (I'm still sorry to lose Edd Caudill...it cost us a state championship in '04, you can have Ricky, I have said before I wouldn't trade 5 Ricky Bowers for 1 Jeff Rutledge and the same goes for Daniel McGugin...just my opinion, but that said Ricky is a good coach) in the state. They got more one on one attention then any freshman, Ingle Martin or R A Dickey ever got at MBA. Ricky seems to pretty much have carte' blanche' to get the players he needs. Plus those seniors got make the traditions, and be the first leaders. Not so much of a risk if you look at it that way.

 

 

 

Why would you ever not want Ricky over Rutledge of McGugin? Bowers has more state championships and much more success than those two. McGugin has had one state championship, but Bowers has had more. McGugin has played in one season of big games, with prior experience of head coaching at Franklin Road Academy (less than noteworthy). Also, I find it of note that you would not trade five of Ricky (who chose to leave MBA) for one Rutledge (who was forced out). Something's gotta give there. Obviously, you still hold some bitterness for the best coach in the state leaving your program.

[KWoodroof]

Why would you ever not want Ricky over Rutledge of McGugin? Bowers has more state championships and much more success than those two. McGugin has had one state championship, but Bowers has had more. McGugin has played in one season of big games, with prior experience of head coaching at Franklin Road Academy (less than noteworthy). Also, I find it of note that you would not trade five of Ricky (who chose to leave MBA) for one Rutledge (who was forced out). Something's gotta give there. Obviously, you still hold some bitterness for the best coach in the state leaving your program.

 

I can accept your initial premise that one can debate over who is the better coach. Still, I think some of your reasoning is a little specious. Ricky has more state championships than McGugin, but he's been there longer. Following that logic (and again, I think it's specious), we're much better off with McGugin, since he's never lost in a state championship game.

 

I can't speak for anybody else, and I'm not as close to the program as others, but I've never gotten a sense that anybody was bitter over Ricky's leaving. Disappointed, especially at first, but not bitter: there was never anything underhanded or ungentlemanly about any of it. I assume Ricky still goes to alumni functions, etc, and since MBA takes pride in the accomplishments of its alumni, there's some pride in the fact that if Ensworth ever becomes a football power, it's due to the talents of an MBA alumnus. Put another way, the only way you'll ever beat an MBA team is with an MBA trained coach.

[my2to12]

I can accept your initial premise that one can debate over who is the better coach. Still, I think some of your reasoning is a little specious. Ricky has more state championships than McGugin, but he's been there longer. Following that logic (and again, I think it's specious), we're much better off with McGugin, since he's never lost in a state championship game.

 

I can't speak for anybody else, and I'm not as close to the program as others, but I've never gotten a sense that anybody was bitter over Ricky's leaving. Disappointed, especially at first, but not bitter: there was never anything underhanded or ungentlemanly about any of it. I assume Ricky still goes to alumni functions, etc, and since MBA takes pride in the accomplishments of its alumni, there's some pride in the fact that if Ensworth ever becomes a football power, it's due to the talents of an MBA alumnus. Put another way, the only way you'll ever beat an MBA team is with an MBA trained coach.

 

 

 

I would agree with the majority of what you are saying. However, I do have to disagree with you on two points. Yes, McGugin is undefeated in state championship games. However, I guarantee you that 99% of coaches that are close to each of these programs would admit that if they had to win one game they would have to choose Bowers over McGugin. You have to remember that McGugin learned most of his craft from Bowers, and so he can only be as good as he tries to imitate, which means that Bowers has to be the greater coach. Also, having played for both McGugin and Bowers in football as they have become head coaches, I firmly believe that Coach McGugin would never fathom that anyone would consider him a superior coach than his mentor Bowers. In fact he himself would not even go so far as to say he is a better coach than Bowers. Also, the fact that you believe an MBA trained coach is the only way to defeat MBA in ignorant, haughty, and unrealistic. Countless teams have defeated MBA without any linkage to the school in their coaching staff. I cannot express to you how absurd your statement is. MBA teams that would travel to the likes of football power houses in Texas would get murdered. There is no true logic behind your statement, but I will hand it to you, you are one of supreme confidence and a great sense of superiority with a lot of granted school pride, which I do not at all mean in a 100% negative fashion.

 

Thank you.

 

roast completed

[KWoodroof]

I would agree with the majority of what you are saying. However, I do have to disagree with you on two points. Yes, McGugin is undefeated in state championship games. However, I guarantee you that 99% of coaches that are close to each of these programs would admit that if they had to win one game they would have to choose Bowers over McGugin. You have to remember that McGugin learned most of his craft from Bowers, and so he can only be as good as he tries to imitate, which means that Bowers has to be the greater coach. Also, having played for both McGugin and Bowers in football as they have become head coaches, I firmly believe that Coach McGugin would never fathom that anyone would consider him a superior coach than his mentor Bowers. In fact he himself would not even go so far as to say he is a better coach than Bowers. Also, the fact that you believe an MBA trained coach is the only way to defeat MBA in ignorant, haughty, and unrealistic. Countless teams have defeated MBA without any linkage to the school in their coaching staff. I cannot express to you how absurd your statement is. MBA teams that would travel to the likes of football power houses in Texas would get murdered. There is no true logic behind your statement, but I will hand it to you, you are one of supreme confidence and a great sense of superiority with a lot of granted school pride, which I do not at all mean in a 100% negative fashion.

 

Thank you.

 

roast completed

 

I think you may have missed your nap and it's made you a bit cranky, and caused you to miss some gentle sarcasm. Go to bed now, and let the grown ups talk.

[my2to12]

I think you may have missed your nap and it's made you a bit cranky, and caused you to miss some gentle sarcasm. Go to bed now, and let the grown ups talk.

 

 

 

Simple words for the defeated. Very characteristic for one who has been challenged, defeated, and has no rebuttal to result to childish antics as a presentable counter argument. Now, I would suggest you get your rest because sleep brings wisdom and enhances brain function, both of which would be helpful to you in this time of defeat. It is amazing to me that your wit was stupefied so quickly and effectively. The maturity of your last comment was non-existent, as a result you appear to be foolish, and just I suggested previously man of superiority and overpowering confidence, neither of which you truly posses or at least appear to hold fast.

 

 

thank you.

 

your roast has continued, your burns will not increase as I believe your pride will continue to decrease (that is if you have any left after this point)

[BigRedDad]

Simple words for the defeated. Very characteristic for one who has been challenged, defeated, and has no rebuttal to result to childish antics as a presentable counter argument. Now, I would suggest you get your rest because sleep brings wisdom and enhances brain function, both of which would be helpful to you in this time of defeat. It is amazing to me that your wit was stupefied so quickly and effectively. The maturity of your last comment was non-existent, as a result you appear to be foolish, and just I suggested previously man of superiority and overpowering confidence, neither of which you truly posses or at least appear to hold fast.

 

 

thank you.

 

your roast has continued, your burns will not increase as I believe your pride will continue to decrease (that is if you have any left after this point)

 

 

I made the initial comment so let me respond.

 

I think I said, at least I intended to say from the tone of the post that I respect Ricky as a coach. I think he is a good coach and that is why I included him in that comment. Having said that I have the utmost respect for Jeff Rutledge as a person, and as a coach. I will stick my neck out and say that I think Jeff Rutledge has forgotten more football then Ricky Bowers knows. He won a National Championship with Bear Bryant, he played in the NFL for Bill Parcells, Joe Gibbs, and Bill Belecheck (sp?). Now he is coaching a Heisman Trophy winner at Arizona. I was sorry to see Jeff's tenure at MBA end the way it did, I truly liked him, and I think he is probably better off where he is.

 

As to Daniel, you are correct, he is humble and he would not put himself on the same plane as Ricky. But to say he learned all he knows about football from Ricky and therefore the student can't outshine the teacher is simply wrong. After Ricky left MBA, Daniel spent 2 years at Miami of Fl as a graduate assistant with Larry Coker. I suspect he learned more there then he ever learned from Ricky.

 

I have been very impressed over the last 2 years with Daniel and his staff. I think they probably watch more film and outwork any of the coaches they play against. Watch the team play, they are always well prepared and they always have a few new wrinkles.

 

I probably shouldn't have made the comment about Coach Bowers, I will use more discretion in the future

[Rankinated2010]

Ensworth is a very new varsity program. For many years it had been an outstanding, fairly small coed school with grades 1-8. It had a full athletic program, and played football in the Harpeth Valley Athletic conference with 7th-8th grade teams from MBA, BA, BGA, Franklin Road, and a few other schools that came and went over the years. In my day, their football teams were pretty non-distinguished, but their other programs were good.

 

They laid the plans to expand to a high school a few years back and expanded a grade at a time, and convinced Ricky Bowers to come over to start the program. There are a lot of rumors regarding problems between him and the Headmaster at MBA. I have no idea how much truth there is to them: some, I would suspect, but not as much as some would have you believe. I wrote to Ricky to wish him the best, and he wrote back, indicating that coaching kept him away from his family a lot. At least at Ensworth, all his kids could go to school there, not just the boys. I also suspect that there is an element of ego (healthy ego, not arrogant pride) in the move: MBA played football quite well for 75 years before Ricky got to the school as a 7th grader, and he was coaching in its 100th year. As well as he did (and it was an impressive record), the best he could do there is maintain the tradition. At Ensworth he can start it. If Ensworth becomes a great program, a lot of the credit comes back to him. I suspect that would be a powerful draw.

 

They are a well-coached, well disciplined team, exactly what you would expect from Ricky Bowers with a team full of players of above average intelligence. I don't know a lot about their schemes, but they have a good QB in Tavares Jefferson, and a good back in the other lad (I won't disrespect him by mangling his name). they are primarily a running team. Their schedule has not been very challenging so far. That's not a knock, just an observation. I don't know their injury situation. The school is smaller than MBA in terms of male enrollment, so depth will always be an issue.

 

I wouldn't risk any money on this game at all. I have no idea what to expect. If MBA comes out and plays to its capabilities for 4 quarters, they win convincingly, though not necessarily by a big score. If they take a quarter off, they will be in trouble. If they have turnovers and a lot of penalties, it has the makings of a very unpleasant two hours.

 

 

thank you very much , that satisfied my needs

Im going to have to go with MBA by 10 on this one

[ehsfootballrules]

I have one other point to make about your comment that last years seniors took a significant risk deciding to go to EHS. First of all I would point out that risk is a double edged sword, the greater the potential risk the greater the potential reward. Secondly when you look at the people behind forming the school they are clearly very successful people and the chances of the school being a bust were minimal, if that much. lastly last years seniors had the advantage of being coached by some of the finest coaches (I'm still sorry to lose Edd Caudill...it cost us a state championship in '04, you can have Ricky, I have said before I wouldn't trade 5 Ricky Bowers for 1 Jeff Rutledge and the same goes for Daniel McGugin...just my opinion, but that said Ricky is a good coach) in the state. They got more one on one attention then any freshman, Ingle Martin or R A Dickey ever got at MBA. Ricky seems to pretty much have carte' blanche' to get the players he needs. Plus those seniors got make the traditions, and be the first leaders. Not so much of a risk if you look at it that way.

 

 

I definitely agree with you that the risk of the students was rewarded. There were some incredible opportunities given to the Class of '08, but immediate success in football simply wasn't one of them (or at least no one thought it would be).

[Perfection11]

This matchup could very well be the state championship preview with Brentwood Academy struggling... MBA is certainly the favorite being 19-0, BUT injuries to Joseph Sloan and Ruben Thomas hurt their depth on the defensive line meaning Johnson and Bubis will test their endurance... Also, the game is at Ensworth, meaning the fans will be rowdy and loud for the tigers. If MBA struggles and turns the ball over this game could sway to the tigers advantage. However, coach Mcgugin and the leaders of the MBA team will be prepared and ready to take on Tavarres Jefferson and company. I am very excited to see this one. I am predicting the Tigers to end the Big Red's undefeated streak and win 21-17... unless MBA is able to clean up their sloppy play. Goodluck to both teams this should be a great battle.