BLACKMAN DEFEATS FATHER RYAN

[RMC]

I'm really confused now.

[takedown42]

You cannot be serious! Give me some of that Blaze Kool-Aid you have been drinking.

 

According to the latest poll, 3 of the top 5 teams in the state are DII. But who care about a poll; after all, it is just someone??™s opinion.

 

Let us look at the cold hard facts. On the two occasions where DI and DII teams actually compete against each other, the DII teams have absolutely dominated the field.

 

At the McCallie Invitational (undoubtedly the toughest tournament in the state and perhaps the southeast with a field that includes some of the best teams from TN, GA, AL, and SC), 5 DII schools finished in the top 10 and 4 DII schools finished 1, 2, 3, and 4! In fact, you cannot find a DI school until you get to 12th place -- Soddy Daisy, which is ranked 8th in the state according to the latest coaches poll.

1. Baylor

2. Father Ryan

3. Brentwood Academy

4. McCallie

5. GA

6. GA

7. GA

8. GA

9. Montgomery Bell Academy

10. GA

 

At the Father Ryan Invitational, 5 DII schools finished ahead of all DI schools in the entire field by claiming the top 5 spots:

1. Father Ryan

2. McCallie

3. Christian Brothers

4. Brentwood Academy

5. Montgomery Bell Academy

6. Mt. Juliet

7. Greenback

8. Brentwood High

9. AL

10. Glencliff

 

So please, do not use Blackman's win over Father Ryan to declare that DII is weaker than DI. Doing so belittles the accomplishments of both the Sharpshooters and Blackman wrestling programs. Celebrate a hard-won victory and be proud of your boys. But do not claim superiority until you demonstrate it on a regular basis. You can start by having the Blackman coach contact Gordan Connell at McCallie and Pat Simpson at Father Ryan and request to be included in their respective tournaments next season. Trust me, competing against high caliber programs on a regular basis will not only enhance your wrestling program, but it will lend credence to your future posts.

 

Gig,

I can't believe I am agreeing with a McCallie poster. You said it well. I was trying to be nice to these guys and all they did was lash out at me, which shows me this is there first rodeo. I am glad for their win over Ryan. It was a good night. I, like you, want to tell the Blackman followers, good win. Just don't put down DII. If you want real respect feel free to join us at McCallie or go to the Ryan tournament. Heck, if they are that good and young as they say, you might want to join us at Collins Hills in Georgia. Now there is real competition.

Anyway, good post Gig.

[texas23]

I'm really confused now.

 

 

LOL.....mission accomplished.

 

the McCallie invite had 4 div. 1 schools participate.

 

East Ridge

Red Bank

Soddy Daisy

Franklin

 

Not exactly the strongest line up of four Div. 1 schools from Tn. or even the Chattanooga area. So using that tournament as an argument seems less than convincing to me. But hey, what do I know, not much for sure.

[RMC]

Heck, if they are that good and young as they say, you might want to join us at Collins Hill in Georgia. Now there is real competition.

 

 

I invited them......now I've just got to find 14 kids that can wrestle.........

[tnko]

You cannot be serious! Give me some of that Blaze Kool-Aid you have been drinking.

 

According to the latest poll, 3 of the top 5 teams in the state are DII. But who care about a poll; after all, it is just someone??™s opinion.

 

Let us look at the cold hard facts. On the two occasions where DI and DII teams actually compete against each other, the DII teams have absolutely dominated the field.

 

At the McCallie Invitational (undoubtedly the toughest tournament in the state and perhaps the southeast with a field that includes some of the best teams from TN, GA, AL, and SC), 5 DII schools finished in the top 10 and 4 DII schools finished 1, 2, 3, and 4! In fact, you cannot find a DI school until you get to 12th place -- Soddy Daisy, which is ranked 8th in the state according to the latest coaches poll.

1. Baylor

2. Father Ryan

3. Brentwood Academy

4. McCallie

5. GA

6. GA

7. GA

8. GA

9. Montgomery Bell Academy

10. GA

 

At the Father Ryan Invitational, 5 DII schools finished ahead of all DI schools in the entire field by claiming the top 5 spots:

1. Father Ryan

2. McCallie

3. Christian Brothers

4. Brentwood Academy

5. Montgomery Bell Academy

6. Mt. Juliet

7. Greenback

8. Brentwood High

9. AL

10. Glencliff

 

So please, do not use Blackman's win over Father Ryan to declare that DII is weaker than DI. Doing so belittles the accomplishments of both the Sharpshooters and Blackman wrestling programs. Celebrate a hard-won victory and be proud of your boys. But do not claim superiority until you demonstrate it on a regular basis. You can start by having the Blackman coach contact Gordan Connell at McCallie and Pat Simpson at Father Ryan and request to be included in their respective tournaments next season. Trust me, competing against high caliber programs on a regular basis will not only enhance your wrestling program, but it will lend credence to your future posts.

 

good post... I agree /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

I agree with the premise that the example of FR being beaten by a Div.1 school can not be used as an overall comment of the strength of the Div. 2 school.

 

But the evidence presented here does not disprove the point either. If you are hanging the entire div. 1 strength on the production of the 8th ranked Soddy team from last month, then there is not enough data to support your contention, and the out of state teams would dilute the argument even further by their inclusion into the equation of Div.1 vs. Div. 2.

 

The FR tournament is a great middle tn. tournament, but still not enough representation of the strength of what is out there in Div. 1.

 

And finally, relying on an traditional tournament results to refute the point of a dual match is not really apples to apples.

 

otherwise, I completely agree. /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" /> (not that that means anything either)

 

good post... I completely agree /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

[tnko]

Gig,

I can't believe I am agreeing with a McCallie poster. You said it well. I was trying to be nice to these guys and all they did was lash out at me, which shows me this is there first rodeo. I am glad for their win over Ryan. It was a good night. I, like you, want to tell the Blackman followers, good win. Just don't put down DII. If you want real respect feel free to join us at McCallie or go to the Ryan tournament. Heck, if they are that good and young as they say, you might want to join us at Collins Hills in Georgia. Now there is real competition.

Anyway, good post Gig.

 

good post.... I wholeheartedly agree /flower.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flower:" border="0" alt="flower.gif" />

 

my opinions and the opinions of rock11 are not on the same baseball diamond /blush.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blush:" border="0" alt="blush.gif" />

[CoachGrimwood]

LOL.....mission accomplished.

 

the McCallie invite had 4 div. 1 schools participate.

 

East Ridge

Red Bank

Soddy Daisy

Franklin

 

Not exactly the strongest line up of four Div. 1 schools from Tn. or even the Chattanooga area. So using that tournament as an argument seems less than convincing to me. But hey, what do I know, not much for sure.

 

 

OMG! I have sat back and read CoachT all season and commented very little but this post is demeaning and an embarressment. It minimizes the gains Blackman has made to compete with an outstanding squad like Father Ryan, but it is not just the squad it is the program. Can the program last and produce the same level of results year in and year out? Father Ryan does and they are a class act. Also, the D1 teams listed above have outstanding programs and history. They have a legacy that they build on. Do not come on a post and talk trash about a program that has been around for 50 years. If you want to debate D1 and D2 do it on a different post. Have some sportsmanship!

[rocky11]

You cannot be serious! Give me some of that Blaze Kool-Aid you have been drinking.

 

According to the latest poll, 3 of the top 5 teams in the state are DII. But who care about a poll; after all, it is just someone??™s opinion.

 

Let us look at the cold hard facts. On the two occasions where DI and DII teams actually compete against each other, the DII teams have absolutely dominated the field.

 

At the McCallie Invitational (undoubtedly the toughest tournament in the state and perhaps the southeast with a field that includes some of the best teams from TN, GA, AL, and SC), 5 DII schools finished in the top 10 and 4 DII schools finished 1, 2, 3, and 4! In fact, you cannot find a DI school until you get to 12th place -- Soddy Daisy, which is ranked 8th in the state according to the latest coaches poll.

1. Baylor

2. Father Ryan

3. Brentwood Academy

4. McCallie

5. GA

6. GA

7. GA

8. GA

9. Montgomery Bell Academy

10. GA

 

At the Father Ryan Invitational, 5 DII schools finished ahead of all DI schools in the entire field by claiming the top 5 spots:

1. Father Ryan

2. McCallie

3. Christian Brothers

4. Brentwood Academy

5. Montgomery Bell Academy

6. Mt. Juliet

7. Greenback

8. Brentwood High

9. AL

10. Glencliff

 

So please, do not use Blackman's win over Father Ryan to declare that DII is weaker than DI. Doing so belittles the accomplishments of both the Sharpshooters and Blackman wrestling programs. Celebrate a hard-won victory and be proud of your boys. But do not claim superiority until you demonstrate it on a regular basis. You can start by having the Blackman coach contact Gordan Connell at McCallie and Pat Simpson at Father Ryan and request to be included in their respective tournaments next season. Trust me, competing against high caliber programs on a regular basis will not only enhance your wrestling program, but it will lend credence to your future posts.

 

 

Hello Whirly Gig! If you had really read my post, you would not have had to spend all the time that you did to do your research and then the time to type your thesis of D1 and D2. However, I have nothing to argue with you on the results of your research. The facts are clear. D2 has some EXCELLENT teams, especially the top 4 or 5. The programs are strong and have been for a long time and I have enjoyed watching them wrestle over the years and have always come away impressed. This is also a tournament situation that you used and it is apples vs. oranges in light of my point. (see below) In addition, go back and read the post from Texas23. The tournament's you picked did not have the best D1 teams in them to even compare them fairly, so maybe i was wrong, your research was a little off. However, i can see where I gave you room to mis-understand my post with my last sentence in the post, "just a clear picture of the competitive distance between the two divisions". Again, this was meant in the context of placing at the state tournament as evidenced by my opening comment. I will own this mis-communication.

 

What I said in my post was, "THIS IS A CRYSTAL CLEAR EXAMPLE OF WHY PLACING AT A DII SCHOOL IS SO MUCH EASIER THAN PLACING AT D1". I stand by this and simply used the example of the FR vs. Blaze match to make my point. And, I only mentioned the 4 unranked guys from D1 that beat the 4 ranked guys from D2. I was not at the match, but simply used the information that the "tnko" guy put in his post. Although I am sure the 4 Blackman wrestlers have a bright future, odds are they will not place in the D1 tournament this year as sophomores and freshmen and yet the FR wresters that were beat will most certainly place and some may even win it.

 

Honestly, it really should not have surprised anyone that Blackman beat FR. The middle school team of the sharpshooters have been beating FR middle school for 3 or 4 years by pretty wide margins. For the most part, these are the same wrestlers wrestling each other just a few years older. If this did not happen this year or in the years to come, it would mean something was wrong at the high school level where Blackman's wrestlers were not getting what they needed to continue to get better (which they obviously are) and we all can agree that Mr. Simpson has a long and excellent track record of taking his wrestlers to the highest level.

[texas23]

OMG! I have sat back and read CoachT all season and commented very little but this post is demeaning and an embarressment. It minimizes the gains Blackman has made to compete with an outstanding squad like Father Ryan, but it is not just the squad it is the program. Can the program last and produce the same level of results year in and year out? Father Ryan does and they are a class act. Also, the D1 teams listed above have outstanding programs and history. They have a legacy that they build on. Do not come on a post and talk trash about a program that has been around for 50 years. If you want to debate D1 and D2 do it on a different post. Have some sportsmanship!

 

 

How does this post minimize what the outcome of the Blackman/FR dual?

 

If someone is going to make a claim based on the McCallie tournament, then that comment begs to be investigated. Grimwood, you tell me, are the teams in this past tournament some of the most talented teams that Div. 1 has to offer this year. I think the answer is yes, probably for Soddy as they get their lineup where they want it, but likely no for the other three teams. If an honest opinion makes you mad, too bad I guess.

 

I never called out a "program" as being anything negative. You are making it that way. A quick sports example. UT had a less than highly successful season this year. A win over UT did not mean too much as the season progressed. Typically a year in an year out tough team. Not this year. Now, have I said anything about the program? No.

 

There was zero "trash talking" by me in that post.

 

I do not need a lecture from you on sportsmanship. And I did not bring the subject up in the first place, so go head hunting for a different screen name, not mine. Geeze. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

[rocky11]

OMG! I have sat back and read CoachT all season and commented very little but this post is demeaning and an embarressment. It minimizes the gains Blackman has made to compete with an outstanding squad like Father Ryan, but it is not just the squad it is the program. Can the program last and produce the same level of results year in and year out? Father Ryan does and they are a class act. Also, the D1 teams listed above have outstanding programs and history. They have a legacy that they build on. Do not come on a post and talk trash about a program that has been around for 50 years. If you want to debate D1 and D2 do it on a different post. Have some sportsmanship!

 

 

OMG! It seems that you have over reacted to what Texas23 said. He could have meant "this year". And his post minimized no one. He never mentioned the program over it's life. He just gave some thoughts. No lack of sportsmanship in his post. No trash talk. Relax a little, maybe you had a bad day in the wrestling room with your guys.

[CoachGrimwood]

How does this post minimize what the outcome of the Blackman/FR dual?

 

If someone is going to make a claim based on the McCallie tournament, then that comment begs to be investigated. Grimwood, you tell me, are the teams in this past tournament some of the most talented teams that Div. 1 has to offer this year. I think the answer is yes, probably for Soddy as they get their lineup where they want it, but likely no for the other three teams. If an honest opinion makes you mad, too bad I guess.

 

I never called out a "program" as being anything negative. You are making it that way. A quick sports example. UT had a less than highly successful season this year. A win over UT did not mean too much as the season progressed. Typically a year in an year out tough team. Not this year. Now, have I said anything about the program? No.

 

There was zero "trash talking" by me in that post.

 

I do not need a lecture from you on sportsmanship. And I did not bring the subject up in the first place, so go head hunting for a different screen name, not mine. Geeze. /dry.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="

 

 

Sorry, didn't mean to single out your screen name. I'm just commenting on where this thread is going and you had the last comment. What I am saying is give Blackman the credit. FR is a strong program and has a strong team. We don't need to debate if it is stronger than a year before or if D2 is over rated. This thread takes away from Blackman's victory. Didn't mean to sound mad.

[rigger101]

Prior to the split schools in the current D-1 and D-2

were powerhouse teams. It would have been great to see what Bradley or SD could have done under the old system.

 

1997 John Overton 173

1996 John Overton 188.5

1995 Red Bank 156

1994 Cleveland 136.5

1993 McCallie 184.5

1992 McCallie 183

1991 McCallie 236

1990 McCallie 220

1989 Franklin 134.5

1988 Father Ryan 128.5

1987 Father Ryan 97

1986 McCallie 102.5

1985 McCallie 98

1984 East Ridge 105.5

1983 East Ridge 97.5

1982 McCallie 83

1981 Baylor 67

1980 Cleveland 94.5