Coach Darden Out at CAK

[HappyHour22]

Yes, you are correct, Catholic has had CAK's number in basketball. It has been ugly at times. But considering that you had a far better team, I doubt you were really pleased with either game played at CAK the past 2 years. CAK challenged Catholic until the final quarter last year in that game. And did you see the game this year at CAK? If you were there, you know Catholic came within an eyelash of losing that game. I think Catholic was expecting to play the same team they faced earlier in the year, and they didn't.

 

Nice moral victory. CAK is a better team at home and plays Catholic tough at home almost every year.

[downtown247]

I think you're giving Mr. Naler a little too much credit. I've been around alot of these coaches for years and it's a pretty small close knit bunch. For example, I heard about Pemberton leaving a few hours before it was even announced at Catholic from another coach. 20+years of coaching AAU introduces you to a lot of coaches.I've had a couple of coaches actually ask me about the CAK job. Coach Cowan talked to me about some of this at the sub-state game at Bearden. I spoke with one of the coaches in the same district as the Union County coach that gave him very high marks earlier this week. I know Shane Wells personally as well as some others who are interested. Applicant pool may change some with the new opening at Webb which I knew of yesterday. It's not like I'm not on speaking basis with the boys and girls coaches at CAK, Catholic and Webb.

 

Everything has been confidential from the CAK standpoint and they probably wouldn't comment on anyone who has applied to maintain confidentiality.

 

Mr. Bolt- I finally figured out that TVM must be the virgin Mary but since I'm Baptist I was a little slow on that one. What are you wanting me to correct you on? I'd be happy to oblige. I don't know everything and I'm constantly trying to learn. Was blessed with a great college coach, beeen to a bunch of clinics, coached for 20+ years and have been fortunate enough to have coached some players that have gone onto the NBA and WNBA as well as numerous colleges.

"Knowledge comes but Wisdom lingers"....Tennyson...Thanks for noticing! /thumb[1].gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":thumb:" border="0" alt="thumb[1].gif" />

 

 

Sounds like you are as qualified as anyone else that has applied for this job. I think you should throw your name into the hat.

[4warriors]

Understand about not becoming all about winning at any cost--I agree as I believe all do who are in any position of authority there. That's not the issue here. There is a difference between doing everything you can to be the best you can be(pretty Biblical) and winning at all costs (not Biblical). It appears that the challenge being given to the coaches is not "you'd better win more games" but rather "are you/we doing all that we can to overcome the challenges of playing schools twice our size with a limited talent pool (limited because of who we are(Christian private school that doesn't give athletic scholarships). There is a big difference between approaching a sport from a program point of view vs simply being a good or even great coach during the season and game. You mention if other coaches will have to look over their shoulders. I don't think so--take G for instance. There is a small talent pool for soccer in the sophmore class and not a lot bigger in the current 8th grade class (not counting Holt and Thompson). Will he be able to maintain his past record? I don't know, but I know no one at that school will talk about G leaving if he doesnt win the Region or has a losing record.-No way, no how. Football-going to be an interesting year--toughest schedule yet and a young team. While Coach B doesnt have the time or record under his belt that G does, there is no way you will find a coach that is better prepared than RB.(or gets his team better prepared.) I believe from most people's point of view, if he keeps doing that (pursuing excellence) then the record will take care of itself-even if it isn't great. Parents do have to realize that we aren't Webb or Brentwood Academy, etc. My experience is that most do.

 

Finally, you mention growth. You're right-growth has it's challenges. The option is not to grow. If you didn't then you wouldn't have high school building, you wouldn't have the full range of sports and extracurricular offerred, you wouldn't be able to offer the experience and education to more people(kind of selfish-as a parent, there are days I'd like that but it doesn't seem right), you'd still be in modulars everywhere, etc. etc. The hard side of it is having to review the athletic program with an eye towards change in order to still pursue excellence, not knowing all of the parents or students (like we both used to), etc. After being here when it was smaller and now bigger--I'm still here and will stay. CAK isn't perfect but it is worth staying involved in and helping to swim in uncharted waters. That goes for alumnus like you too-I hope you feel that way and it sounds like you do.Thx

My problem with this is it sounds exactly like something Webb would do. As far as I know, CAK is not about being the biggest or the most dominant school at particular sports. Theres a reason that the official school seal has the words "Values Scholarship Character" under it. Its been noted that theres a reason kids go to CAK instead of Webb, the basis of that is the open Christian leadership. Im not saying that whoever they get wont be a good Christian role model. Im sure he will be. People have been citing G as their example, but I think thats truly unfair. Of course G is a great man and a great coach and I hope my children get to play for him one day. With that said, its very easy to say you want a "good christian example of a man" when hes been to the state title game every year hes ever coached there and is 5-1 in those games. Is that the expectation of the next basketball coach though? What are his expectations? "Getting over the hump"? That has been used as an excuse for dismissal of other coaches in the past, one that stands out is the old baseball coach but look where the baseball program has gone since the dismissal. When will Rusty have to look over his shoulder because his teams have yet to beat Alcoa? You said you want former students to try and remember the good times we had there instead of dwelling on individual times like these. The problem with that is OUR school is not the same school that is sitting on the hill now. That can be a good thing in some regards, for example, teachers that have been sharing classrooms and have been out in those miserable modular buildings for years now have their own classrooms, and other teachers have been able to move into the bigger classrooms that they need to teach more effectively. It can be a bad thing too though. I knew everyone in my class, and the classes above and below me while I was there. Can any student say that anymore? Theres a certain charm that the school once had that has been lost in the shuffle of the growth and development of the school. I hope it will return, like I alluded to, I have every intention of sending my children there. But I want my kids to attend the Christian Academy of Knoxville, not Mini-Webb.

[Govolsknox]

Nice moral victory. CAK is a better team at home and plays Catholic tough at home almost every year.

 

 

Yes sir, You are correct on all 3 points. My comments stemmed from your statement, "Now if we want to talk about making people look like garbage on the the court, we can talk about CAK all day long..." So, I thought it appropriate to point out that while there have been games that Catholic dominated, or as you put it, made CAK look like garbage on the court, there have been some meetings recently that that wasn't the case. The difference IMO is that Catholic had a far superior team, and yet got a pretty good run for their money in my 2 examples. I would bet that they were glad to get out of that gym this year with a "W."

[HappyHour22]

Yes sir, You are correct on all 3 points. My comments stemmed from your statement, "Now if we want to talk about making people look like garbage on the the court, we can talk about CAK all day long..." So, I thought it appropriate to point out that while there have been games that Catholic dominated, or as you put it, made CAK look like garbage on the court, there have been some meetings recently that that wasn't the case. The difference IMO is that Catholic had a far superior team, and yet got a pretty good run for their money in my 2 examples. I would bet that they were glad to get out of that gym this year with a "W."

 

A 20-game winning streak is making the opposing team look like garbage. But it is not all about wins and loses at CAK right? /roflol.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roflol:" border="0" alt="roflol.gif" />

[bergil24]

First of all it hasn??™t been 20 games, second of all Catholic recruited players and gave scholarships all of those years except the last few and even then had the players they had recruited as freshmen and sophomores. Let's talk in a couple years when the playing field has been evened out.

 

I feel like everyone is just arguing in circles (and starting to get off topic). If i remember correctly from what all has been said, the reasons people are giving for Coach Darden's dismissal are: 1: He drove away potential basketball players, 2: His W/L record. So I am going to take these one at a time.

 

The first reason, while it is possible that some people didnt play because of the coach I would think that this would be a pretty weak reason for firing someone, especially someone who has the support 98% of his players over the past 6 years. How is it that nearly everyone who played for the man is shocked that he could be let go, if he really was that bad? Also, as i said in an earlier post, if you dont play because you dont like Coach Darden then you really dont want to play in the first place. There is no place for people like that on a team of any sport, they have negativity and they bring the team down. Also along this topic people may ask, "Why are so few people going out for the team if it's not because of the coach?" Well to that I would have one word: Football. Since CAK started a Varsity Football program the number of people trying out for basketball has decreased almost every year (as far as i know). To have a successful football team, a school like CAK needs almost every male athlete in the school to play. So, after football season when it's time for basketball a lot of the kids just want to relax. They've been playing football every day since summer, they have not been practicing with the basketball team in the off season and they are exhausted from non-stop football. So they don??™t play basketball and get to take a break for a few months. While I completely understand wanting to take time off, you can??™t blame a coach because many of the athletes are doing this.

 

The second reason is his W/L record. After seeing the post earlier with the district record over the past 4 years i honestly was shocked. I didn??™t realize it was this bad and if this was a public school I could see how they could simply look at this and consider some coaching changes, but at CAK i would expect them to look a little bit deeper. You can't just look at the record and automatically blame the coach. You have to look at the situation, talent he has to work with and the competition he is up against. Starting with competition, they moved up to AA 4 years ago. So, yeah, instead of playing Greenback and Midway in the district, you've got Anderson County and Catholic. I would argue that most teams would suffer from a division change like this, especially when, for whatever reason, you have fewer and fewer people coming out for basketball. So, if you still think that the W/L record was because of coaching and not because of available talent or increased competition then i would say, look at the man??™s credentials. He took a CAK team farther than any CAK has ever gone after only 2 years at the school, not to mention his 599 wins and everything else that has been mentioned in this thread that would be redundant at this point. So I am wondering, how on earth does CAK think they are going to find anyone who can do any better? Yeah it will seem like coaching when next year??™s team does better than this year??™s, but the experience that this young team got is going to be the main reason, not coaching (im not saying the next coach will be bad, just making my point). But apparently for CAK a record is a record, if that in fact is why he was fired. I don??™t think Coach G will have to worry about losing his job either, even if he does have a losing record one year, but if he happens to have a parent with exceptional pull at the school go after his job that losing year, then I wouldn??™t be surprised if this whole thing started again.

[4warriors]

CAK continues to be more than about w/l-as long as the program is doing everything possible to be the best it can be with the resources they have. That is the question, and a fair one I think, that admin is asking of the whole athletic department. What constitutes running an effective overall program will probably look different than that does in a public school that has a deeper talent pool, playing schools their same size, etc. Those things are not true for CAK--the multiplier has them playing teams twice its size. It would not be good leadership to watch the environment around you change dramatically and say, "well, we'll just keep on doing things the same way." This move didn't happen overnight. This move was not forced by KNaler or some other individual. What leverage do they have? No big donor was involved. I don't think ENaler was going any where. The school has never operated that way and I see no evidence that it has now. It is understandable that people might opt for that reason if certain people say it enough and if the coach is a well liked personality. Unfortunately for the school, it is at a disadvantage since it can't really tell its side. No parent is going to get rid of G or anyone else.The school isn't going to either if they put forth the kind of effort that he, Gum(track),Bradley, Pifer, and others do.

First of all it hasn??™t been 20 games, second of all Catholic recruited players and gave scholarships all of those years except the last few and even then had the players they had recruited as freshmen and sophomores. Let's talk in a couple years when the playing field has been evened out.

 

I feel like everyone is just arguing in circles (and starting to get off topic). If i remember correctly from what all has been said, the reasons people are giving for Coach Darden's dismissal are: 1: He drove away potential basketball players, 2: His W/L record. So I am going to take these one at a time.

 

The first reason, while it is possible that some people didnt play because of the coach I would think that this would be a pretty weak reason for firing someone, especially someone who has the support 98% of his players over the past 6 years. How is it that nearly everyone who played for the man is shocked that he could be let go, if he really was that bad? Also, as i said in an earlier post, if you dont play because you dont like Coach Darden then you really dont want to play in the first place. There is no place for people like that on a team of any sport, they have negativity and they bring the team down. Also along this topic people may ask, "Why are so few people going out for the team if it's not because of the coach?" Well to that I would have one word: Football. Since CAK started a Varsity Football program the number of people trying out for basketball has decreased almost every year (as far as i know). To have a successful football team, a school like CAK needs almost every male athlete in the school to play. So, after football season when it's time for basketball a lot of the kids just want to relax. They've been playing football every day since summer, they have not been practicing with the basketball team in the off season and they are exhausted from non-stop football. So they don??™t play basketball and get to take a break for a few months. While I completely understand wanting to take time off, you can??™t blame a coach because many of the athletes are doing this.

 

The second reason is his W/L record. After seeing the post earlier with the district record over the past 4 years i honestly was shocked. I didn??™t realize it was this bad and if this was a public school I could see how they could simply look at this and consider some coaching changes, but at CAK i would expect them to look a little bit deeper. You can't just look at the record and automatically blame the coach. You have to look at the situation, talent he has to work with and the competition he is up against. Starting with competition, they moved up to AA 4 years ago. So, yeah, instead of playing Greenback and Midway in the district, you've got Anderson County and Catholic. I would argue that most teams would suffer from a division change like this, especially when, for whatever reason, you have fewer and fewer people coming out for basketball. So, if you still think that the W/L record was because of coaching and not because of available talent or increased competition then i would say, look at the man??™s credentials. He took a CAK team farther than any CAK has ever gone after only 2 years at the school, not to mention his 599 wins and everything else that has been mentioned in this thread that would be redundant at this point. So I am wondering, how on earth does CAK think they are going to find anyone who can do any better? Yeah it will seem like coaching when next year??™s team does better than this year??™s, but the experience that this young team got is going to be the main reason, not coaching (im not saying the next coach will be bad, just making my point). But apparently for CAK a record is a record, if that in fact is why he was fired. I don??™t think Coach G will have to worry about losing his job either, even if he does have a losing record one year, but if he happens to have a parent with exceptional pull at the school go after his job that losing year, then I wouldn??™t be surprised if this whole thing started again.

[SlaughterRedSmith]

CAK continues to be more than about w/l-as long as the program is doing everything possible to be the best it can be with the resources they have. That is the question, and a fair one I think, that admin is asking of the whole athletic department. What constitutes running an effective overall program will probably look different than that does in a public school that has a deeper talent pool, playing schools their same size, etc. Those things are not true for CAK--the multiplier has them playing teams twice its size. It would not be good leadership to watch the environment around you change dramatically and say, "well, we'll just keep on doing things the same way." This move didn't happen overnight. This move was not forced by KNaler or some other individual. What leverage do they have? No big donor was involved. I don't think ENaler was going any where. The school has never operated that way and I see no evidence that it has now. It is understandable that people might opt for that reason if certain people say it enough and if the coach is a well liked personality. Unfortunately for the school, it is at a disadvantage since it can't really tell its side. No parent is going to get rid of G or anyone else.The school isn't going to either if they put forth the kind of effort that he, Gum(track),Bradley, Pifer, and others do.

 

 

Hold on a second, you HONESTLY believe that CAK has NEVER gotten rid of a coach because a few disgruntled parents spoke against him?

[HappyHour22]

bergil24,

If its not 20 games, then it is 19 in a row against the warriors. And please go into detail on the recruited players... Feel free to call the recruited players out... Brett Connor, Tremane Brown, Matt Parton, Tony Fox, Daniel Sheridan- all grew up going to Catholic feeder schools. Ryan Waldens' mom is a teacher at KC. Cak has not won in 10 years, playing each other twice a year...... We are not counting JV, sorry.

[IrishBBall]

The second reason is his W/L record. After seeing the post earlier with the district record over the past 4 years i honestly was shocked. I didn??™t realize it was this bad and if this was a public school I could see how they could simply look at this and consider some coaching changes, but at CAK i would expect them to look a little bit deeper.

-Bergil24

 

How can you have been associated that long with the program and not recognize the record? We know the district record but what has the overall record been over the past 4 years. And on a serious note, would you have gone to the state without Novikov transferring in? You bring up several good points but I think your fan base would expect you to be competitive with Catholic and Grace since they share a similar mission.

 

HH22- Did you keep my scholarship money? Now I know how you got that nice truck. He must not know all our recruiting $$$ goes towards football.

[HappyHour22]

irishbball,

Yea seems like everyone knows about my truck they gave me and yes I still do have some of the scholarship money. I use that money to help the economy out by heading down to the mouses' ear every other weekend...

I got a little bored in my last couple minutes of work and went back and looked at some scores. Coacht goes back to the 04-05 season. Since then KC has won 10 straight and the average margin of victory is 14.3 points per game.

[Knox2]

CAK continues to be more than about w/l-as long as the program is doing everything possible to be the best it can be with the resources they have. That is the question, and a fair one I think, that admin is asking of the whole athletic department. What constitutes running an effective overall program will probably look different than that does in a public school that has a deeper talent pool, playing schools their same size, etc. Those things are not true for CAK--the multiplier has them playing teams twice its size. It would not be good leadership to watch the environment around you change dramatically and say, "well, we'll just keep on doing things the same way." This move didn't happen overnight. This move was not forced by KNaler or some other individual. What leverage do they have? No big donor was involved. I don't think ENaler was going any where. The school has never operated that way and I see no evidence that it has now. It is understandable that people might opt for that reason if certain people say it enough and if the coach is a well liked personality. Unfortunately for the school, it is at a disadvantage since it can't really tell its side. No parent is going to get rid of G or anyone else.The school isn't going to either if they put forth the kind of effort that he, Gum(track),Bradley, Pifer, and others do.

 

 

 

4warriors, your posts on this subject have been logical and well stated. As great as Coach D's background is, and with as much support as he had, and even with the valid extenuating circumstances to win at CAK, there are still people charged with the responsibility to make sure CAK athletics are moving in the right direction to be the best they can be. The athletic director is not the only one, but it is certainly one of his top responsibilities. He is afterall, the athletic director. How anyone can come up with some far fetched conspiracy and demonize one parent is beyond me when you look at not only the won / loss record over the last few years, but also the trend. (Not one season, but over several years.) If he hadn't at least considered the question, "Do we need to consider doing something differently?" he would have been negligent. I truly "get" supporting your former coach or fellow teacher. I also "get" if someone doesn't feel like it was handled the best way possible (I don't know whether it was or wasn't.) What I don't understand is how anyone can look at the results and with a straight face act like the decision makers are either ignorant or in someone's back pocket. (The parent that some have blamed has a kid who not only started but likely got the most playing time of anyone on the squad.)

 

I have not seen one post that was mean-spirited about Coach D. What I have seen is multiple posts of people attacking the athletic director, the administration, and CAK as an institution. Not to mention calling a particular parent out by name and making fun of them.

 

A year or two from now, hind site may prove that it was indeed a mistake. But what kind of an athletic director would conclude that there is no way that things can get better? At some point, you have to take some risk that things may get worse instead of better. Perhaps the people charged with the responsibility of CAK athletics decided that 9 - 37 in our district is the right time to take that risk.