Thoughts on the state

[DaisyMay]

tnko, close your eyes and think about this. It isn't about YOU or your convenience. What I was referring to is the wrestlers perspective. I used the casual fans as an example that many others also recognized this. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this obvious point because of the thin skin regarding any critique of anything regarding the Cow Palace.

If I wanted to be truly critical, I would have mentioned the lack of courtesy regarding the starting time for the finals on Saturday. To be fair, you'd have to admit that by having the Finals at 4:00 EST (in Chatt. for the last couple decades), it got the travellers home at a safer hour. The 6:00 start this year was equivelant to 7:00 Eastern, which got the Saturday night travellers home at an extremely late hour, (well , actually early Sunday morning). The Finals ended at 11:00! I know you guys detest Chattanooga and it's wrestlers, but those guys prob. got in bed around 2:30 or 3:00 AM. The consolation rounds ended very early in the afternoon, around 1:00. Why in the world not start the Finals at 3:00 or 4:00? Certainly never stopped the Roundhouse from rockin' on Saturday afternoon.

[RidinTime]

tnko, close your eyes and think about this. It isn't about YOU or your convenience. What I was referring to is the wrestlers perspective. I used the casual fans as an example that many others also recognized this. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this obvious point because of the thin skin regarding any critique of anything regarding the Cow Palace.

If I wanted to be truly critical, I would have mentioned the lack of courtesy regarding the starting time for the finals on Saturday. To be fair, you'd have to admit that by having the Finals at 4:00 EST (in Chatt. for the last couple decades), it got the travellers home at a safer hour. The 6:00 start this year was equivelant to 7:00 Eastern, which got the Saturday night travellers home at an extremely late hour, (well , actually early Sunday morning). The Finals ended at 11:00! I know you guys detest Chattanooga and it's wrestlers, but those guys prob. got in bed around 2:30 or 3:00 AM. The consolation rounds ended very early in the afternoon, around 1:00. Why in the world not start the Finals at 3:00 or 4:00? Certainly never stopped the Roundhouse from rockin' on Saturday afternoon.

 

Sounds like someone is just bitter that they had to make the drive for once. People from West TN would've also gotten back at an extremely late hour if it were still in Chatt. Makes more sense to have it in most central location as possible, or rotate the venue.

[LovinIt]

Starting the finals at 3 or 4 would help both east and west tn wrestlers get home at a reasonable hours. Maybe that can be added to list of things to be worked on for next year!

[knightscoach2009]

I liked that during the parade of champions they could stretch the DI and DII divisions out instead of stacking them on top of each other. The lack of food places can be corrected by choosing the right hotel. Ours had refrigerators and microwaves allowing us to bring our own groceries. Last year, our hotel cost the same in Chatt but did not have any way of keeping food cold. My staff and I did control what our wrestlers ate and kept them on weight. Last year, we had one fail to make weight by .2 pounds. I think attendance seemed down because of the overall size of the building. If we go to double elim maybe more will stay for the finals. I know the Clarksville area did not publicize the event much. At our regionals there were some wrestlers that still thought states was being held in Chattanooga. If this gets us to double elim it will be worth it.

[bbgocats]

I would also suggest an entrance on the back side of the arena. There was a perfectly good parking lot behind the building that the parking attendants suggested, only to find out that you could not enter at that door. It didn't matter if you already had a ticket or pass to get in.. they would not let you in for nothing. It would have been easier to get into Fort Knox. It was a little over kill with some of the attitudes from the gate/door and floor "police". If you've got a pass or ticket you should be able to enter the building from any entrance. If you can go out the door, you should be able to come back in the same door if you have a ticket or pass. I'm just saying.

[tnko]

tnko, close your eyes and think about this. It isn't about YOU or your convenience. What I was referring to is the wrestlers perspective. I used the casual fans as an example that many others also recognized this. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this obvious point because of the thin skin regarding any critique of anything regarding the Cow Palace.

If I wanted to be truly critical, I would have mentioned the lack of courtesy regarding the starting time for the finals on Saturday. To be fair, you'd have to admit that by having the Finals at 4:00 EST (in Chatt. for the last couple decades), it got the travellers home at a safer hour. The 6:00 start this year was equivelant to 7:00 Eastern, which got the Saturday night travellers home at an extremely late hour, (well , actually early Sunday morning). The Finals ended at 11:00! I know you guys detest Chattanooga and it's wrestlers, but those guys prob. got in bed around 2:30 or 3:00 AM. The consolation rounds ended very early in the afternoon, around 1:00. Why in the world not start the Finals at 3:00 or 4:00? Certainly never stopped the Roundhouse from rockin' on Saturday afternoon.

 

I agree with the one thing your speaking about and thats having the finals earlier than 6.

 

They probably had to have a set time to start the finals for the TSSAA site, the papers, and the pamplets for sale, and maybe werent sure when that would be this year at the new venue with new staff and a tournament cooridinator so they played it safe and went for 6. I bet next year it will be 4.

 

Of course I am smiling at bit just knowing that the Chatt-area kiddies finally didnt to sleep in their own beds during breaks, and at night . And know one whats to get home too late but Memphis wrestlers still had 4 hours drive to get home..... Chatt-folks only had 2 hours.

 

I think Memphis should host it next year and the Chatters can drive 6 hours and see how that feels

[BuckLateral]

Thoughts on the state tournaments from this morning's Times Free Press ( Ward Gossett reporting):

 

 

Franklin gets solid reviews

Thursday, February 25, 2010

 

By:Ward Gossett (Contact)

 

There are no guarantees that the state wrestling tournaments will remain in Franklin at the Williamson County Agricultural Expo, but the TSSAA was more than satisfied this year.

 

"I thought both tournaments were fantastic," said Mark Reeves, the TSSAA assistant director who oversees wrestling. "Specifically on the dual tournament, I can't imagine a better venue. Everybody was comfortable and everybody had good sight lines."

 

The state association moved out of Clarksville for the state duals and left Chattanooga's McKenzie Arena, which had hosted the traditional state tournament for 24 consecutive years.

 

There are kinks to work out with the traditional tournament.

 

"The positives would be the central location and the facility having plenty of room," Reeves said. "We were able to put down 10 mats, which helps out and gives us a little margin for error for staying on schedule."

 

The crowd was small for the duals finals, which had staggered start times for Division I Class A/AA, Division II and Class AAA, but attendance figures were up by about 200 for each tournament according to early numbers generated by the TSSAA.

 

Moving to the Agricultural Expo allowed the TSSAA to charge a $5 parking fee and keep 80 percent of that. The other 20 percent went to Centennial High band boosters for overseeing the parking. Even conservative estimates would figure the TSSAA covered its biggest expense. According to Reeves, the association paid about $11,000 for 26 referees and other tournament workers.

 

The coaches seemed to be pleased with the Ag Expo.

 

"The restrooms were always clean, and I also like the wide-open space on the floor," Science Hill coach Jeff Price said. "The security people were much more friendly (than those at McKenzie Arena). They checked our wristbands and let us go. One of them even apologized for asking me to move behind the ropes (on the main floor)."

 

Price felt there was a "packed-in like cordwood" atmosphere at McKenzie, which he didn't miss until the finals of this year's traditional tournament.

 

"The finals weren't as intense," he said.

 

"I thought everything was great with the exception of the finals, which were very bland," Red Bank Ben Reichel said. "There was no special lighting, no music, no excitement, and there is no possible way to arrange the mats appropriately for all to see and create a tight atmosphere."

 

Ooltewah coach Wendell Weathers said there were "far more positives than negatives. The facility is fairly new and it was impressively clean, and that included the restrooms. The seating was comfortable."

 

Fans, coaches and wrestlers could see the match board in plenty of time to move if they wanted to, but one of the major pluses was parents being able to bring in food for wrestlers.

 

"Everybody liked the fact that you could bring in your own food instead of being forced to buy from arena vendors," Weathers said.

 

The arena was virtually empty except for one corner for the Class AAA state duals finals, and fans at both tournaments were farther away from the mats than at Clarksville or McKenzie Arena.

 

"I like the Ag for the duals and UTC for the individual (tournament)," McCallie coach Gordon Connell said. "Chattanooga is the mecca of Tennessee wrestling with the best teams in the state every year in each division, so it felt like the numbers were down."

 

Connell thought the mats for the championship finals in each division were too far apart, which added to the feeling of a general lack of excitement.

 

Moving the traditional back to Chattanooga was among Connell's preferences, but he wasn't alone.

 

Al Miller, former head coach at Cleveland and now an assistant for the Blue Raiders, has been to every state tournament but one since 1968 as a wrestler or coach. He has been to Brainerd, Notre Dame, UTC's Maclellan Gym and McKenzie Arena, Nashville-area sites Lipscomb, Two Rivers, Overton, Glencliff and Hillwood and now Franklin.

 

"I won't lie. I missed McKenzie," he said. "I missed the atmosphere and many of the (Chattanooga-area) wrestling fans that always came to the state tournament. I just don't see Nashville having those fans, and Nashville not having a team competing for the championship hurt the crowd size and atmosphere of the tournament."

 

Added Greenback coach Justin Ridge: "I liked (the venue) until the finals. It wasn't as exciting. The crowd seemed small. It was quiet."

 

There is a feeling among some of the coaches, a concern expressed by Christian Brothers' Chris Lewis, that Chattanooga no longer wanted the tournament.

 

"I enjoyed Chattanooga and McKenzie, but it was obvious they did not want us," he said.

 

He doesn't miss the hassle with security personnel about wrestlers bringing in food or the tournament or having to shift from the regular Thursday-Saturday time to Wednesday-Friday to accommodate UTC basketball and a possible Mocs game telecast.

 

"The arena floor was bigger and it was easier to move around (at the Ag Expo)," Lewis said. "Only problems were that I couldn't see Division I finals -- they were too far away -- and there were no shower facilities for the kids. Also, the lighting was poor."

 

There are issues to address if the TSSAA decides to return to Franklin.

 

"I can tell you that the Williamson County folks and coaches and volunteers would like to see us back and that we had a great experience there," Reeves said.

 

"We have a learning curve on our end in making sure all of our ducks are in a row prior to getting started. Another negative, and it's fixable, is the mats for the finals being too far apart. It is a decision to make if we're back in that facility."

[tnlonghorn]

tnko, close your eyes and think about this. It isn't about YOU or your convenience. What I was referring to is the wrestlers perspective. I used the casual fans as an example that many others also recognized this. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this obvious point because of the thin skin regarding any critique of anything regarding the Cow Palace.

If I wanted to be truly critical, I would have mentioned the lack of courtesy regarding the starting time for the finals on Saturday. To be fair, you'd have to admit that by having the Finals at 4:00 EST (in Chatt. for the last couple decades), it got the travellers home at a safer hour. The 6:00 start this year was equivelant to 7:00 Eastern, which got the Saturday night travellers home at an extremely late hour, (well , actually early Sunday morning). The Finals ended at 11:00! I know you guys detest Chattanooga and it's wrestlers, but those guys prob. got in bed around 2:30 or 3:00 AM. The consolation rounds ended very early in the afternoon, around 1:00. Why in the world not start the Finals at 3:00 or 4:00? Certainly never stopped the Roundhouse from rockin' on Saturday afternoon.

 

I agree with the one thing your speaking about and thats having the finals earlier than 6.

 

They probably had to have a set time to start the finals for the TSSAA site, the papers, and the pamplets for sale, and maybe werent sure when that would be this year at the new venue with new staff and a tournament cooridinator so they played it safe and went for 6. I bet next year it will be 4.

 

Of course I am smiling at bit just knowing that the Chatt-area kiddies finally didnt to sleep in their own beds during breaks, and at night . And know one whats to get home too late but Memphis wrestlers still had 4 hours drive to get home..... Chatt-folks only had 2 hours.

 

I think Memphis should host it next year and the Chatters can drive 6 hours and see how that feels

Yeah lets hold it in Memphis and beat the record set this year for the worst, least attended, non exciting, state tournament since the early 80's. By the way that was the last time prior to this year that it wasnt in Chattanooga. The drive doesnt bother us Chattanoogans other than the poster above. He made some valid points about downtime but you were right in saying they had to have times set well prior to the tournament.

[2blLeg]

Yeah lets hold it in Memphis and beat the record set this year for the worst, least attended, non exciting, state tournament since the early 80's. By the way that was the last time prior to this year that it wasnt in Chattanooga. The drive doesnt bother us Chattanoogans other than the poster above. He made some valid points about downtime but you were right in saying they had to have times set well prior to the tournament.

 

First, if you read a previous post, the attendence was UP this year, not down. Maybe it just seemed down to you, because there was more room to spread out.

 

Next, I don't think most Memphis people mind it being in Franklin. It's central to the state, and fair to all. I say give this some time, let them iron out a few things, and I believe this will work out best for everyone.

 

Personally I loved going to Chatt, but don't miss that drive. Chatt is beautiful, and there are plenty of things to do during the down time. Can't believe the university didn't know how much exposure it was getting from this event. Not sure that UTC would have even been a thought for some kids, had it not been for the exposure they get from the tournament.

[tnlonghorn]

Yeah lets hold it in Memphis and beat the record set this year for the worst, least attended, non exciting, state tournament since the early 80's. By the way that was the last time prior to this year that it wasnt in Chattanooga. The drive doesnt bother us Chattanoogans other than the poster above. He made some valid points about downtime but you were right in saying they had to have times set well prior to the tournament.

 

First, if you read a previous post, the attendence was UP this year, not down. Maybe it just seemed down to you, because there was more room to spread out.

 

Next, I don't think most Memphis people mind it being in Franklin. It's central to the state, and fair to all. I say give this some time, let them iron out a few things, and I believe this will work out best for everyone.

 

Personally I loved going to Chatt, but don't miss that drive. Chatt is beautiful, and there are plenty of things to do during the down time. Can't believe the university didn't know how much exposure it was getting from this event. Not sure that UTC would have even been a thought for some kids, had it not been for the exposure they get from the tournament.

 

I was just recently witha group of about 20 people who all attended the tournament. Granted they were all Chattanooga people but not one person felt liek there were more people there. The first thing everyone said was there were way less people there. I dont care what #'s they throw out there because there is no way more people atended this years. Its not even close. The venue holds a smaller # of people so it shouldnt have seemed empty. This means several things. Either the accounting is way off, the Tssaa doesnt want us to know the #'s were down even though everybody could clearly see it was, or maybe a ton of people were sneaking into Utc when it was there and not paying. Granted the Ag center layout is different and more spread out and it might make the #s seem smaller somewhat. As far as it being more centrally located, what are you refering to. basically the majority of the fans are nashville, Chattanooga and KNoxville. Chattanooga is right in the middle of that fan base not Nashville. If its in Chattanooga Memphis has a two hour further drive but if its in Nashville East Tennessee has a two hour further drive. All in all it was a nice venue, people were friendly, many of the small things can be fixed. The only and biggest concern is the atmoshphere and support. maybe it will be packed out next year.

[2blLeg]

I was just recently witha group of about 20 people who all attended the tournament. Granted they were all Chattanooga people but not one person felt liek there were more people there. The first thing everyone said was there were way less people there. I dont care what #'s they throw out there because there is no way more people atended this years. Its not even close. The venue holds a smaller # of people so it shouldnt have seemed empty. This means several things. Either the accounting is way off, the Tssaa doesnt want us to know the #'s were down even though everybody could clearly see it was, or maybe a ton of people were sneaking into Utc when it was there and not paying. Granted the Ag center layout is different and more spread out and it might make the #s seem smaller somewhat. As far as it being more centrally located, what are you refering to. basically the majority of the fans are nashville, Chattanooga and KNoxville. Chattanooga is right in the middle of that fan base not Nashville. If its in Chattanooga Memphis has a two hour further drive but if its in Nashville East Tennessee has a two hour further drive. All in all it was a nice venue, people were friendly, many of the small things can be fixed. The only and biggest concern is the atmoshphere and support. maybe it will be packed out next year.

 

Can't see how you can say they are lying to you. But you can believe what you want. I will trust what they say, until someone can prove to me that they are not giving us facts. I know for a fact that our team had 2 sections full for both the duals and the individuals. Not sure we have ever had that many fans at a wrestling event before. For people to drive up on Saturday was way too much when the event was in Chatt. And people are not going to take the day off of work on Friday just so they can drive to watch other kids. But to be able to leave Saturday morning, and catch a full day of wrestling was worth it to many of them.

 

Second, this is not about Chatt and Nashville. This is the State of TN wrestling, which includes Memphis. Like it or not. And whether you like it or not, Memphis wrestling is coming way up. Top 4 team in D1 out of the Memphis area. Top 2 team in D2 out Memphis. And these numbers will continue to get better. So yes it's central. It's no more than a 3 hour drive for anyone. And again, this is for EVERYONE.

[Sommers]

 

"The positives would be the central location and the facility having plenty of room," Reeves said. "We were able to put down 10 mats, which helps out and gives us a little margin for error for staying on schedule."

 

Great OP for double elimination

 

 

The crowd was small for the duals finals, which had staggered start times for Division I Class A/AA, Division II and Class AAA, but attendance figures were up by about 200 for each tournament according to early numbers generated by the TSSAA.

 

Perception is everything as they say

 

"The restrooms were always clean, and I also like the wide-open space on the floor," Science Hill coach Jeff Price said. "The security people were much more friendly (than those at McKenzie Arena). They checked our wristbands and let us go. One of them even apologized for asking me to move behind the ropes (on the main floor)."

 

TRUE... but allow for the back door to be an entrance

 

 

Price felt there was a "packed-in like cordwood" atmosphere at McKenzie, which he didn't miss until the finals of this year's traditional tournament.

 

"The finals weren't as intense," he said.

 

TRUE

 

"Everybody liked the fact that you could bring in your own food instead of being forced to buy from arena vendors," Weathers said.

TRUE

 

"Chattanooga is the mecca of Tennessee wrestling with the best teams in the state every year in each division, so it felt like the numbers were down."

 

Connell thought the mats for the championship finals in each division were too far apart, which added to the feeling of a general lack of excitement.

 

TRUE

 

"I won't lie. I missed McKenzie," he said. "I missed the atmosphere and many of the (Chattanooga-area) wrestling fans that always came to the state tournament. I just don't see Nashville having those fans, and Nashville not having a team competing for the championship hurt the crowd size and atmosphere of the tournament."

 

AGREED

 

Added Greenback coach Justin Ridge: "I liked (the venue) until the finals. It wasn't as exciting. The crowd seemed small. It was quiet."

 

Again, perception is everything... Pull the mats up some and much closer to each other

 

There is a feeling among some of the coaches, a concern expressed by Christian Brothers' Chris Lewis, that Chattanooga no longer wanted the tournament.

 

Possible from UTC's standpoint.

 

"The arena floor was bigger and it was easier to move around (at the Ag Expo)," Lewis said. "Only problems were that I couldn't see Division I finals -- they were too far away -- and there were no shower facilities for the kids. Also, the lighting was poor."

 

Huge issue with potential ring worm and timing issues between sessions

 

"We have a learning curve on our end in making sure all of our ducks are in a row prior to getting started. Another negative, and it's fixable, is the mats for the finals being too far apart. It is a decision to make if we're back in that facility."