No change for Falcon football

[Quasar]

 

 

The single wing is garbage in my opinion and the coaches are in denial for sticking with it this long. The only football programs that should run this formation are small schools or Pee Wee football teams. The single wing will not work in the big 8. The formation is easy for defenses to prepare for. Volunteer can’t depend only on the single wing. Like I said before, keep the single wing, but don't use it as the main formation. You’re right about VHS doing a good job running the ball out of their version of single wing when they take care of pigskin. But still the ball carrier has to break tackles to get a few yards. No big play threat out of this formation. I believe VHS could be doing a whole lot better on offense if they would use all of their weapons. Spread the offense out and make the defense respect the pass. It’s hard to run the football with 9 defenders in the box.

 

I think the single wing can be good for volunteer. To say that the formation is easy for defenses to prepare for is completely untrue. Its unlike anything that anyone runs now days and is completely foreign to the kids playing now. You'll have to take my word on it, but getting the scout team to properly run it is almost a waste of time for the opposing team. You need a center that can directionally snap and more backs that can throw and run. It was a headache having to draw up cards and getting the kids to properly run it. But, ball protection is key. In the SH game the fumble on the first drive changed the complexion of the game. You all were driving on them for the first 2-3 series without many problems. So, no fumble and you all prob score on the first drive running a lot of time off the clock. potentially the 1st q would have ended 7-7, with the falcons driving for a second score. that makes SH start playing alot tighter, again playing to your ball control offense. A lot of would of, could ofs I know but the single wing is not an ineffective O. If the D could force more turnovers you all could be VERY successful believe me.

Edited September 9, 2010 by Quasar

[NoDaddyBall]

I believe that group who played during that time had so much potential that was wasted. How come our middle schools do so well, and later look like they never played before. Some of those kids were on the unbeaten Freshman team, they were only scored on once near the end of a game when we had the win secured. There are lots of good kids who are passing thru, but we will retain less if things stay the same. We should always have at least 20-25 seniors and 20-25 juniors every year for a school our size. I hope the season turns around, I find myself feeling sorry for those kids, especially the seniors. It will be hard for the single -wing to keep pace with the points the defense will allow. If you think about it we have scored and moved the ball. There is another problem I see with special teams, it seems we have trouble on kick off/ returns. Anyone think we can win Friday against Cherokee?

 

It all starts with the head coach and the people he surrounds himself with. Sure, you may luck out and get some studs in a given year that will make it happen - but year in and year out success depends on a coach that implements a program that takes all the factors that will focus on winning. Parents, boosters, community, teachers, athletic director, the kids and the feeder programs. He will gauge the talent for that year and run the offense and defense that best suits the talent. The football program will typically be going in one direction or the other (success or failure). Any program that has a coach for 5 to 8 yrs. and does not win on a consistent basis needs to give the reins to another. When you are down, its like the plague. When winning, all is good. The only option may be to give a young guy the opportunity who has assisted at a winning school and has the energy to devote several years of his life to the program, and yes, that is what it takes. Clean house and change directions if that is what it takes. When the kids believe, the parents and school will follow. I keep saying program because it is not any one thing that brings success. All those parents who bad mouth on Saturday but will not lift a hand to raise a dime or park a car are also to blame. Everyone has a role to play in helping the program, do your part and don't worry so much about what others are doing. Remember, the kids hear everything you say and it effects them when it is always in conflict with what the coaches are trying to teach. Forget the name and the politics, what direction is the program headed?

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

I wrote a big post last night in response to all the Single Wing haters, but it got vaporized because my internet was down. I don't feel like typing the whole thing about again, so I'll just post the Cliff's Notes version.

 

There are dominant Single Wing teams at the highest levels of football in VA. If they can contend for state championships with it there, I think it would work in the Big 8. The Miami Dolphins even used their "Wildcat" version of it last year and ran all over NFL opponents with it. If you can shred the Baltimore Ravens and the New England Patriots with it, I think the offense should work against Dobyns-Bennett and David Crockett.

 

The Single Wing isn't just a formation, it's an entire multiple-formation offensive philosophy like "Pro Style," "The West Coast Offense," or "The Spread." You can be Single Wing with double tight ends like Volunteer prefers, or you can spread it out and run the Single Wing with 3 or 4 WRs (the Miami Dolphins' "Wildcat" is basically a 4 WR Single Wing), which they also try to do sometimes.

 

The Single Wing is not why Volunteer's backs aren't breaking long runs. The reason they're not getting more big plays is because Rogers is the only guy on the team who even resembles a game breaker. Everybody else in the offensive backfield is average speed. You can win without great speed, but you have to be very fundamentally sound--Volunteer's not.

 

The Single Wing is a real pain for opponents to prepare for. All that misdirection, the direct snaps, the fakes and double handoffs... it turns defensive pursuit on its head. Everyone has to stay at home and play their assignments. If kids on defense try to just look for the ball, they're in trouble.

 

Putting their backs in an I wouldn't help. Volunteer based out of the I formation the last 5 years, the last 2 of which the OL couldn't keep a hole open long enough for the back to get through it. The Single Wing's misdirection is really helping to make the OL's job easier.

 

What Volunteer's running ins't much of a Single Wing. I don't think I've seen an unbalanced line or a decent fake on the half spin series, plus they fumble their attempted wedge dives and turn the ball over 50% of the time. When they don't fumble it, that thing is good for about 7-8 yards a pop right up the gut. Also, a true Single Wing offense is built around the tailback being a running and passing threat. He play actions with himself and sets up the whole offense by being a true workhorse and leader. When your only passer is not very likely to run, you lose all that. A true single wing playbook has passes in there for everybody to throw!

 

There's no excuse for all the fumbled snaps and lame fakes. The backs don't carry out their fakes when they're not getting the ball and the QB is really sloppy with the ball and his fakes, too. That cripples the offense.

 

When Volunteer tries to pass, they usually get sacked. Their passing game, pass blocking, and QB mechanics are horrible! Throwing the ball into the ground and taking a dozen sacks a game won't help them get better.

 

Yet they've still moved the ball well against good defenses with the single wing, when they can just hold onto it.

 

Also, I think that there's some history with the Single Wing in Church Hill. Wasn't that the offense that Jay Salley first brought to CHHS before he switched to the Wishbone in the late 60s/early 70s? That man's offenses were one dimensional, but they won a lot of games, including the state championship!

Edited September 10, 2010 by ChurchHillFootballFan

[BatmanDB]

Saying an offense should work against David Crockett and Dobyns Bennett is two completely different things.If you have the athletes,just about anything will work.If you don't have the speed,what looks good on paper will not happen near as easy on grass.

[rogers4falcons]

I wrote a big post last night in response to all the Single Wing haters, but it got vaporized because my internet was down. I don't feel like typing the whole thing about again, so I'll just post the Cliff's Notes version.

 

There are dominant Single Wing teams at the highest levels of football in VA. If they can contend for state championships with it there, I think it would work in the Big 8. The Miami Dolphins even used their "Wildcat" version of it last year and ran all over NFL opponents with it. If you can shred the Baltimore Ravens and the New England Patriots with it, I think the offense should work against Dobyns-Bennett and David Crockett.

 

The Single Wing isn't just a formation, it's an entire multiple-formation offensive philosophy like "Pro Style," "The West Coast Offense," or "The Spread." You can be Single Wing with double tight ends like Volunteer prefers, or you can spread it out and run the Single Wing with 3 or 4 WRs (the Miami Dolphins' "Wildcat" is basically a 4 WR Single Wing), which they also try to do sometimes.

 

The Single Wing is not why Volunteer's backs aren't breaking long runs. The reason they're not getting more big plays is because Rogers is the only guy on the team who even resembles a game breaker. Everybody else in the offensive backfield is average speed. You can win without great speed, but you have to be very fundamentally sound--Volunteer's not.

 

The Single Wing is a real pain for opponents to prepare for. All that misdirection, the direct snaps, the fakes and double handoffs... it turns defensive pursuit on its head. Everyone has to stay at home and play their assignments. If kids on defense try to just look for the ball, they're in trouble.

 

Putting their backs in an I wouldn't help. Volunteer based out of the I formation the last 5 years, the last 2 of which the OL couldn't keep a hole open long enough for the back to get through it. The Single Wing's misdirection is really helping to make the OL's job easier.

 

What Volunteer's running ins't much of a Single Wing. I don't think I've seen an unbalanced line or a decent fake on the half spin series, plus they fumble their attempted wedge dives and turn the ball over 50% of the time. When they don't fumble it, that thing is good for about 7-8 yards a pop right up the gut. Also, a true Single Wing offense is built around the tailback being a running and passing threat. He play actions with himself and sets up the whole offense by being a true workhorse and leader. When your only passer is not very likely to run, you lose all that. A true single wing playbook has passes in there for everybody to throw!

 

There's no excuse for all the fumbled snaps and lame fakes. The backs don't carry out their fakes when they're not getting the ball and the QB is really sloppy with the ball and his fakes, too. That cripples the offense.

 

When Volunteer tries to pass, they usually get sacked. Their passing game, pass blocking, and QB mechanics are horrible! Throwing the ball into the ground and taking a dozen sacks a game won't help them get better.

 

Yet they've still moved the ball well against good defenses with the single wing, when they can just hold onto it.

 

Also, I think that there's some history with the Single Wing in Church Hill. Wasn't that the offense that Jay Salley first brought to CHHS before he switched to the Wishbone in the late 60s/early 70s? That man's offenses were one dimensional, but they won a lot of games, including the state championship!

I'm well aware of Giles, the school in Virginia that runs the single wing. I'm also aware of Florida running a form of the single wing along with the Dolphins mixing a little into their offense. I had to look up the single wing to learn more about it because the formation is so dated. It was a formation that died in the 60's. No one really uses it anymore since coaches learned that the QB can pass the football. If the single wing is such a great offense then why isn’t everyone running it? You mention that Volunteer doesn’t have the playmakers to be successful in the single wing. So why are you against another formation? I’m all about whatever formation that will help Volunteer. The point I want to make very clear is if the running back is going to get the bulk of the carries because none of the other plays work in the formation then you should run the I formation or something else to help the RB chances of getting yards. Hard to break off big plays when the whole team knows what’s coming their way. The game has evolved and if you are going to run the single wing then every player has to do their job and the coaches have to be creative with the plays. I’m about giving the players a chance to win. I enjoy reading your posts and I do appreciate your input on the single wing, but I’m going to continue to disagree.

[rogers4falcons]

I believe that group who played during that time had so much potential that was wasted. How come our middle schools do so well, and later look like they never played before. Some of those kids were on the unbeaten Freshman team, they were only scored on once near the end of a game when we had the win secured. There are lots of good kids who are passing thru, but we will retain less if things stay the same. We should always have at least 20-25 seniors and 20-25 juniors every year for a school our size. I hope the season turns around, I find myself feeling sorry for those kids, especially the seniors. It will be hard for the single -wing to keep pace with the points the defense will allow. If you think about it we have scored and moved the ball. There is another problem I see with special teams, it seems we have trouble on kick off/ returns. Anyone think we can win Friday against Cherokee?

Cherokee will be tough to beat. I seen where the QB threw for 332 yard against Mo. West last week. I believe the quarterback has thrown for over 200 yds in every game. I hope the coaches make some adjustments with the defense to slow down Cherokee's passing game. If VHS takes care of the ball and plays solid defense I think they have a chance.

Edited September 10, 2010 by rogers4falcons

[falconfan00]

quote by churchhillfootballfan

"When Volunteer tries to pass, they usually get sacked. Their passing game, pass blocking, and QB mechanics are horrible! Throwing the ball into the ground and taking a dozen sacks a game won't help them get better."

 

 

 

 

 

 

if i am not mistaken starting QB Harris was 8-11 passing for 1 TD and 110yds against SH last week. and that was for the 3 quarters he played. not to bad against a 6a team since you say volunteer has no passing game, no blocking, and no QB. volunteer can and should pass more to open up the run game and help Rogers out.

Edited September 10, 2010 by falconfan00

[ChurchHillFootballFan]

quote by churchhillfootballfan

"When Volunteer tries to pass, they usually get sacked. Their passing game, pass blocking, and QB mechanics are horrible! Throwing the ball into the ground and taking a dozen sacks a game won't help them get better."

 

 

if i am not mistaken starting QB Harris was 8-11 passing for 1 TD and 110yds against SH last week. and that was for the 3 quarters he played. not to bad against a 6a team since you say volunteer has no passing game, no blocking, and no QB. volunteer can and should pass more to open up the run game and help Rogers out.

 

Harris looked good against Science Hill, but that's the only good game he's played out of their first 3. Against Elizabethton and North the receivers just couldn't get open and Harris struggled to deliver the ball on target. Of course, the OL was letting rushers really fly up into him off the edge.

 

I think Harris and the Volunteer receivers have talent, but their fundamentals all need a lot of work. They'll never have a consistent passing attack with the way they're throwing the ball now.

 

Nothing would please me more than to see him throw for 300 yards and 4 TDs against Cherokee tonight, though.

Edited September 10, 2010 by ChurchHillFootballFan

[DavidCrockettFan]

Being a Crockett fan I can relate to much of the conversation that is going on here. Crockett has a terrible football tradition and history. Crockett has two winning records since the school opened in the 70s.

 

Crockett runs the wing-t. While it is what some would say an out of date offense, it works. It worked very well for DC last year and it will this year. (I should throw in we can not throw the ball what-so-ever. One pass attempt last week). It will work this year because the kids know the system. They have run it since they were freshmen. The main reason it will work is the talent level. This is probably one of the most talented teams they've had since the playoff year they had in 2000 or 2001.

 

Next year looks to be a long year for DC because they lose a ton of talent.

 

From my experience at Crockett, I say support the coach. He is already in under enough stress. If he is not performing, let the powers at be make that decision. Help him in the growth of these young men. That's what really matters.

[falcon12]

Whats everyone thinking after week 6 of Volunteer Football?

[crashomatic]

Whats everyone thinking after week 6 of Volunteer Football?

 

I do not think a Falcon can fly with one wing, It was very painful to watch the defensive ends line up wide and run in without being touched. I believe If we try handing the ball off at least five times, then pitch it out and throw a long pass we will win.( During the same play ) I miss the QB under center. I also believe our linemen should get their running workout during practice, not by running in and out during the game. It would be funny, but I know It's not to any of us fans or the players. The only thing worse than Friday Night, was the last JV game. Anybody can see the program is crumbling, no freshmen team, JV games are a three ring circus. They should pay fans and give them a free coke and popcorn. Oh well the players can decide If they really want to play, I guess Football is still optional and not mandatory. I am really surprised at the fan support, It's good to see loyal fans win or lose

[Boonie]

The fan base is starting to partially implode... I wondered how long it would take. Some people screaming to pull certain players from the game are showing their lack of football knowledge and being very disrespectful to those players and their families. I have been there with my own son and I know how hard it is on the kids and also how hard it is to restrain from confrontation with those "all knowing" individuals who seem to have the magic formula for success.

There is a difference in the way the players perform in the 1st quarter versus say the 4th quarter when they are down 3 or 4 touchdowns. Some things that players do that seem absurd or stupid are actually just a "last ditch effort" to try to achieve success but when it happens all the "coaches" in the stands want to pull in the backups thinking that for some reason the 2nd and 3rd teams can do a better job. That may very well be the case in some instances but for the most part it is not. Also, the players who get singled out are the very same ones that the fans put on a pedestal when things are good. Everyone wonders "why did he get tackled" or "who was he throwing it to" but they fail to see that he had no hole to run through or that his receivers were covered. The blame is not on one player for losing. It takes the whole team and people need to remember that on Friday night.