What's wrong with Halls?

[pxtra2010]

Dang, I never thought all of those teams from Ga. won the state running the wingt. I think Webb has won the state 4x and been runnerup 2x. I dont know if that is right but its close.

 

Why dont KJ take his staff to some of those places in Ga and visit with them and find out exactly how they do it? Dont they still have coaches clinics and do our coaches ever go to them to learn new things?

 

KJ has been around long enough to see how Webb does it and still doesn't change it or teach it correctly. You would think he could take a little something from the tapes of games when they are swapped. We all know TW can't have more than a couple things on his sheet to swap in and out now! Besides - evidently big egos that can't see that a change needs to be done don't need clinics...

[FootballDad]

I am new to the area and don't know much about the situation at the high school. But the wing T as an offense is a proven winner. I know a little about football in Georgia since Valdosta was mentioned and here is a little fyi-

 

AAAAAA state champs 2003, 2008,2009 Camden County High School (wing T)

AAAAAA state champs 2004, 2005, 2007 Lowdnes County High School (wing T and Valdosta's biggest rival)

AAAAA state champs 2004, 2006, 2007 Warner Robins High School (wing T)

 

six A football in Georgia is the largest school classification. Since 2003, a wing t team in the state of Georgia has won the title in the two largest classifications.

 

You can blame execution, play calling, coaches knowledge, player commitment, etc. Just don't blame the system. The offensive system is sound and can produce for a high school team.

 

In 2006, a USA today poll found that 17% of all the high school championships awarded in football were won by teams describing themselves as Wing T teams.

 

Is the wing T good for your community? Maybe not. Is the wing T solid football, yes.

 

IMO we complicate things too much at the high school level and we're always looking for the "next big thing". Football is basically hustling, blocking, tackling, discipline, ball security, and mental & physical toughness. I don't care what offensive or defensive system you employee, if you do those things well you will have success. Of course you have to have a "reasonable" amount of talent and a dedicated and knowledgable coach, but you don't have to have a single college prospect or the newest offensive or defensive fad. Just my

[devilsden]

You can close this one down - aint nobody around gives a rats putoot about the devils no more...least until they get some new blood. Crazy to mention the real Teddy Williams and Burnette as coaches. They have jobs and cant be there to do all the work coaches normally do and they wont spend extra hours do stuff needed to do. How many community park coaches lost there jobs cause they lost on Saturday morning? Not a dang one of'em. They couldnt handle the heat so all you wannabee fans and coaches can gorget about it! Just meet and complain!

[Thecatcall09]

Completely agree, you really need 3 RBs who are quick. The quickness is key... now if they're fast that's even better once they get to the second level of the defense. The past several years Webb has had 2 and sometimes 3 RBs who were quick and fast so it's really been to their advantage. With only one RB that is quick you'll not be effective running the wing-t. Right now, defenses have a real tough time deciding how to defend Webb's offense since they have 3 RBs who can take it the distance.

 

Also, o-line personnel is a big factor for Webb's success. As you know Webb's o-line is not traditionally huge by any means. This year is a little different in that they have 2 book-end tackles that are both around 6'5" and 290. Their center is around 225 and their guards under 200. They key here is that the guards and center are very athletic and quick and are able to pull easily as well as use their quickness to establish proper technique and angles to gain the advantage of much larger d-lines.

Webb has always had some special back or backs in the years they have won games and championships just as they do now and that is facts...if they did not have the Blance Boys how good would their Wing-T be? Average...not taking sides here just stating Good players help you be able to run any offense...Look at Powell Spread compared to OR spread attack...players...that is the big key to any team is to have players!

[PowerSweep]

...if they did not have the Blance Boys how good would their Wing-T be? Average...

Certainly not as good as it is with them.

[highball76]

Dang, I never thought all of those teams from Ga. won the state running the wingt. I think Webb has won the state 4x and been runnerup 2x. I dont know if that is right but its close.

 

Why dont KJ take his staff to some of those places in Ga and visit with them and find out exactly how they do it? Dont they still have coaches clinics and do our coaches ever go to them to learn new things?

 

Yes, they do have WT clinics, lack of clinics is not the problem.

A quick surf revealed the following links:

http://www.tdfootball.com/clinic

http://www.bucksweep.com

http://www.wing-tcamp.com

http://coachmetz.com/whywingt.aspx

http://wing-tfootball.proboards.com/index.cgi

[btgoG]

Guys

 

I appreciate the comments.

 

I'm still not sold on the Wing-T.

 

I just get the feeling that those programs that HAVE won with it, would just as easily win with an offense that has more ways to score.

 

The advantage to any run oriented offense, Wing-T or otherwise, is ball control and the "second order effect" of wearing the opposing defense down.

 

It is not an offense conducive to coming from behind.

 

I can see why it might be a preferred choice for a high school with a big powerful O-Line and quick, tough RBs. Perhaps this is why Halls had it's best year in the past decade in 2007 when Caleb Leonard was blocking for Wes Kitts?

 

I would imagine those schools that have had success with the Wing-T have ways of ensuring they get those types of players EVERY YEAR.

 

Webb is a private school and Valdosta High School, in Georgia (whom I've seen play live; not just Googled them), RECRUITS PLAYERS, just like Maryville, except on an even grander scale. Sons of big time college players and pros go to those schools to be feature, blue chip type players.

 

Halls would be better served, on a consistent basis, to switch, for the aformentioned reasons; they ARE NOT A PRIVATE SCHOOL and they do not have the luxury of RECRUITING BLUE CHIP players.

 

Just sayin...

Edited September 29, 2010 by btgoG

[btgoG]

Whether it's the Wing-T, the coaches, the players, or a combination of the above; I think there's one thing we can all agree on, and that is...

 

Something has to change.

 

It's just not right to be getting blown out, every week, by average teams.

 

 

Go Red Devils!!!

Edited September 29, 2010 by btgoG

[highball76]

Guys

 

I appreciate the comments.

 

I'm still not sold on the Wing-T.

 

I just get the feeling that those programs that HAVE won with it, would just as easily win with an offense that has more ways to score.

 

The advantage to any run oriented offense, Wing-T or otherwise, is ball control and the "second order effect" of wearing the opposing defense down.

 

It is not an offense conducive to coming from behind.

 

I can see why it might be a preferred choice for a high school with a big powerful O-Line and quick, tough RBs. Perhaps this is why Halls had it's best year in the past decade in 2007 when Caleb Leonard was blocking for Wes Kitts?

 

I would imagine those schools that have had success with the Wing-T have ways of ensuring they get those types of players EVERY YEAR.

 

Webb is a private school and Valdosta High School, in Georgia (whom I've seen play live; not just Googled them), RECRUITS PLAYERS, just like Maryville, except on an even grander scale. Sons of big time college players and pros go to those schools to be feature, blue chip type players.

 

Halls would be better served, on a consistent basis, to switch, for the aformentioned reasons; they ARE NOT A PRIVATE SCHOOL and they do not have the luxury of RECRUITING BLUE CHIP players.

 

Just sayin...

 

 

I agree with BtgoG that the wing T is probably not the right system for Halls, but not because they don't have "big powerful O-Line", on the contrary, the wing-t system allows smaller, not larger blockers to "angle block" larger defensemen simply because of physics. "To ask a 200lb lineman to block a 240lbs defender head on is more than likely asking him to do the impossible. But by blocking at an angle, you can cut his force by as much as two thirds. So, this allows a smaller lineman to push the defender wide, which is what we're looking for: width at the point of attack, not depth at the point of attack." Coach Marcelo Metzelar.

 

The wing-t and its high-powered offspring hybrids have evolved along with the other "traditional" or ball control systems and can be as pass friendly, open & quick-striking as need be to fit the situation of the school running it. See Apopka, FL on ESPN Rise last week? No major giant linemen. Not much passing needed but still a 50-14 win & 3 rb over 100yds. Really really cool looking power sweep away from a jumbo look formation.

 

 

Any system similar to the wing-T does however, require more than average dedication & preparation on part of the coaches & players that may not be possible for a variety of reasons at Halls.

My point is not to sell anyone on the wing-t, but rather to point out it is not the wing-t system that is the root of problems at Halls. I don't know all of the problems Halls is having this year. Maybe its just a perfect storm of personel downturn (rash of injuries)along with an upturn of region opponents fortunes.

Perhaps BtgoG is right, maybe they should pick another simpler system that better fits the Halls capabilities, teach it to the community park kids, practice it over & over & get very very good at it, and only then evolve it as needed.

 

Good Luck Red Devils

[PowerSweep]

I offer this just to say that I believe Halls had the personnel last season to be successful running the wing-t.

 

I would have gone with Gresham and Gibson at WB. FB would have been Alley. Fitzpatrick and O'Laughlin would have seen some carries as well at either WB or FB as very good backups. Bright would have been your starter at WR. QB Dowdy/Coffman both would be very capable as long as they were able to sell ball fakes and throw mid-range passes occassionally. I'm not as familiar with your personnel in the o-line last season but Long and Burton would have been my guards. Burton would have been a very, very good wing-t guard. Long was strong and played tough, good shape there. I'm not sure about who played center last season but someone who is laterally quick in the 225 lb. range would be ideal. At tackle, biggest kids you had BUT they have to be able to move.

[btgoG]

I understand the smaller, powerful, quick guard discussion, however...

 

...if I had to choose between a 225 lb tough guy at guard and a 275 Caleb Leonard, I would go with Leonard, every time, whether it's the Power-I, Wing-T, Sweep, the Spread, Option (Wishbone), Pro-Set, Vertical, West-Coast, Run and Shoot, Pistol, or Wildcat.

 

I am a fan of the Spread, in general, for high school teams, but I really like the Run and Shoot as it keeps all the run and pass options open, while still taking advantage of a ball control mindset. The run and shoot doesn't require a lot of size, but some quickness and good decision making. It is brutal to oppsing teams defenses as they get worn out and confused while the opposing team's offense gets cold and out of rythym sitting on the sidelines.

 

I also think Halls could utilize their TEs more; not just as additional blockers, but as recievers. It really creates mismatches against LBs, and especially safetys, when you get a big tall kid 10+ yards downfield.

 

My son played TE for 2 years and got 2 passes thrown to him. He caught both. One for a 45 yard gain. That said, he was incredibly grateful for the opportunity, and I had no complaints from a personal perspective, but it seemed such a waste. We've had even bigger stronger TEs who could have been used more in a receiving role than they were.

 

We've had some talented WR types who just weren't getting the ball thrown to them, despite being open on a consistent basis.

 

The bottom line, IMO, is now is a good time to reevaluate and reassess as it would be beneficial to look at the type of players we routinely get at Halls and choose a style offense that is conducive to those type players.

 

We have a consistent problem, it seems, so we need a more long-term approach to address it.

 

Defense is another discussion for another day...

Edited September 30, 2010 by btgoG

[btgoG]

For the record, I'm just a parent who never played football past high school, but...

 

I've been a student of the game for the past 30 years, on the sidelines at a lot of high school and college games, and have some very good relationships with Division 2, Division 1, and even an NFL coach. I have a lot of ultra-successful coaching in my family blood lines.

 

My being in the military has allowed me to travel and see a lot of different football in a lot of places, so while my understanding of the game is nowhere near as deep as some folks who have gone beyond playing to coaching, I'm willing to bet my perspective is about as broad as anyone's out there.

 

The systems I've seen work best in high school have ALWAYS included a real passing threat. Halls has not had that, nor even had plans to have that, since I've been here.

 

I have seen some real promise, routinely, on the defensive side of the ball, however, my biggest gripe there is we seem to use a lot of players on defense that also play offense. As a result, Halls seems to get outplayed as the game goes on. (i.e. Maryville in 2007 and 2008). Coaches tend to rely a little too much on their horses and end up burning them out.

 

I have faith that Kevin Julian will "right this ship" and that all will be well in the next year or two. Whatever direction the program takes, all I am really an advocate for is that the Coaches, Players, and, yes, the parents, all come together for the good of the program, and not themselves.

 

This discussion, especially in the direction it is currently headed, in no way speaks to a bunch of disgruntled fans who are playing arm-chair coach and second guessing anyone. It actually speaks to the passion and desire we all share to see Kevin and the Players succeed on the gridiron and in life.

 

Any coach worth his salt would acknowledge things look kinda bleak right now and would thus welcome civil discussion and broad thinking; as long as those discussing it don't try to exceed their authority.

 

Most of us are probably as wrong as two boys kissing, but never-the-less, no one can fault us, or question us, for caring.

 

Go Red Devils!!!

Edited September 30, 2010 by btgoG