BA vs. ENSWORTH

[owlbooster]

OK OwlBooster that is the second jab you have thrown at me. I attempted to ignore your first comment. First, JohnJacob is free to spend his hard earned money where he chooses. Its great to live in a land of freedom. However, my experience has been that those who accuse others of playing the "race card" are usually uncomfortable discussing some of the more subtle legacies of our unfortunate racial history. The "race card" has a negative connotation, and typically implies that race has been introduced as a variable inappropriately. I honestly don't think that designation applies here. I and a few others resented the fact that the young men who worked very hard to achieve victory Thursday night would have their brilliant effort on the field overshadowed by subtle and coded hints of wrongdoing because they chose to wear longer hair or wear an earring. And now we are here. Again, i don't blame Johnjacob for reallocating his modest gift to a place more near and dear to his heart. I would also advise him not to venture to far from home. Human experience is rich and varied. It could get intimidating.

"Subtle and CODED hints of wrongdoing...." R U kidding? Your choice of words, screen name and "fine" schools remark all belie your prejudice, attitude and agenda. As one poster stated, he thought the comment was more directed at Coach Bowers by a disgruntled EHS supporter rather than at EHS players by BA supporters. Unless viewing through colored glasses, few would see this as CODED, or as any "wrongdoing" by the players, whatever their ethnicity, rather than criticism of the coach. Bowers obviously is OK with this. He is responsible for team conduct and appearance. He sets their standards as TEAM members and REPRESENTATIVES of the school. My guess is the BA coach and most other DII coaches probably would be at odds with him about this. As one poster stated, Bowers' mentors surely would not have been all right with this. Nor, obviously, are some of the fans expressing their OPINIONS here.

And I have known Dr. Frist for a long time and frankly am surprised that he's apparently OK with this too.

 

Glad to know that you are so successful that a $1000 gift during a recession is "modest" to you. Nothing like a little condescension to win others to your argument. I'm sure JohnJacob would like to hear in plain English what you meant by "I would also advise him not to venture "to" far from home....It could get intimidating." Sounds like a thinly veiled threat to me.

 

I assure you I am not "uncomfortable discussing some of the more subtle legacies of our unfortunate racial history." I just don't choose to do it on a HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS THREAD nor be lectured by you on the subject.

 

One thing I do agree with you about - this was not the time and place to get onto this topic. JJ should have called the school on Monday. It did detract from and ultimately completely subvert the discussion of the game.

Edited October 3, 2010 by owlbooster

[ojsimpson]

"Subtle and CODED hints of wrongdoing...." R U kidding? Your choice of words, screen name and "fine" schools remark all belie your prejudice, attitude and agenda. As one poster stated, he thought the comment was more directed at Coach Bowers by a disgruntled EHS supporter rather than at EHS players by BA supporters. Unless viewing through colored glasses, few would see this as CODED, or as any "wrongdoing" by the players, whatever their ethnicity, rather than criticism of the coach. Bowers obviously is OK with this. He is responsible for team conduct and appearance. He sets their standards as TEAM members and REPRESENTATIVES of the school. My guess is the BA coach and most other DII coaches probably would be at odds with him about this. As one poster stated, Bowers' mentors surely would not have been all right with this. Nor, obviously, are some of the fans expressing their OPINIONS here.

And I have known Dr. Frist for a long time and frankly am surprised that he's apparently OK with this too.

 

Glad to know that you are so successful that a $1000 gift during a recession is "modest" to you. Nothing like a little condescension to win others to your argument. I'm sure JohnJacob would like to hear in plain English what you meant by "I would also advise him not to venture "to" far from home....It could get intimidating." Sounds like a thinly veiled threat to me.

 

I assure you I am not "uncomfortable discussing some of the more subtle legacies of our unfortunate racial history." I just don't choose to do it on a HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS THREAD nor be lectured by you on the subject.

 

One thing I do agree with you about - this was not the time and place to get onto this topic. JJ should have called the school on Monday. It did detract from and ultimately completely subvert the discussion of the game.

[ahapplet]

Dear Posters on this Thread, (owl,k,rolly,the guy that said spot on and oj, to name a few)

Thank you so much for the posting and responses about earrings and hair length. I have just spent 15 minutes or so reading the most amusing posts. I will admit to ya'll that I have no business on the private school boards (we don't even have a private school in our county ), as several of you have pointed out in the past. However, with fall break coming up next week, I had a little extra time on my hands and I didn't make it to the library today. I was reading about our game last night and just thought I would take a little peek at what was going on in DII. It was particularly interesting to read about Bayor beating BA and it sounded like a great game. The "Does Ensworth Recruit" had a few comments that were thought provoking, but I resisted the slight temptation I felt to post. Much to my surprise, one of the posters did beg pardon for critizing the grammar and spelling of another poster and the critized poster accepted the apology. "Spot on", if i may borrow a phrase from one of the posters on this thread. I promise that I will never, ever borrow that phrase again. Thank you all again for the posts about earrings and hair. It seems as if the private schools are indeed turning out their fair share of posters with a flair for comedy. I would especially like to commend the BA and MBA graduates who posted here and will be looking for further example of your humor on the Blue Collar Comedy channel.

 

Sincerely,

ahapplet

PS Ensworth, I know MBA beat you this year, but they are still upset at you for having the gall to start up your own school.

[ahapplet]

When Ensworth calls next summer for their annual $1,000 donation for their football media guide I am going to refuse. Instead I am going to donate $500.00 to the middle school - since that is the only "real" Ensworth people know anymore. The high school might as well be called some other name. The other $500.00 will go to Shane Company Jewelers in a special fund set up for football and basketball players. After all, if Coach Bowers is going to let a few players war earrings then there should be more opportunity for the whole team.

Congrats, Coach Bowers, your lack of discipline just cost you a grand.

 

Football players, even the girls, should not wear "war earrings". It sets the wrong tone for what is essentially a game. Peace earrings or perhaps a small post type earring with a tasteful monogram in the schools initals (ES or BA) would be more appropriate.

Edited October 10, 2010 by ahapplet

[ahapplet]

Actually, I think the post was spot on. Anyone who knows Ricky Bowers and knows the "family tree" of coaches that he comes from will argue that NONE of his mentors (Tommy Owen and Carlton Flatt) would ever let their players wear earrings on the sideline, after games, etc. One can argue "modern times" as long as you want but the fact remains the Ricky has strayed far from the way he was schooled and has lost respect in the community and amongst those who have known him for many years. He is a fine coach but has lost a lot of friends in the process of his "empire building".

 

Please allow me to translate the truth that may really be painful. "How dare Coach Bowers beat BA with a school that is stealing some of the best players that might have previously attended BA and (gasp), he is doing it with a school that was started very recently."

Coach Bowers, you must quit winning if you want the "right sort" of people to like you.

[ahapplet]

OJ, You won the debate with intelligent argument and you got the last word which is something when you are going up against owl and k. K is much more skilled at debate. When he is losing an argument owl usually says that football boards aren't the place for this type of discussion. This is always after he has gone on and on about the subject at hand. The guy who made the tacky, unkind personal comments about Ensworth's players and their talented coach was just mad about being beat. I really enjoyed reading your posts and when I get back to the library I will look for the book you recommended.

Edited October 10, 2010 by ahapplet

[tnguy31]

Please allow me to translate the truth that may really be painful. "How dare Coach Bowers beat BA with a school that is stealing some of the best players that might have previously attended BA and (gasp), he is doing it with a school that was started very recently."

Coach Bowers, you must quit winning if you want the "right sort" of people to like you.

 

Hey let's be honest, the Ensworth crowd looks like a split between two things, a gang rally and a wine and cheese party and WOW, they don't seem to sit together. Ensworth beat BA fair and square, and what Ricky choses to allow, may not benefit him too well in the long run. Then again, he may be a trend setter. You don't see BA players, or any other DII school looking like that, but if they do want to look thugish, then it is their God given right to do so. I'm all for it. Hope Ricky doesn't come up short because of his choices....

Edited October 10, 2010 by tnguy31

[ojsimpson]

Hey let's be honest, the Ensworth crowd looks like a split between two things, a gang rally and a wine and cheese party and WOW, they don't seem to sit together. Ensworth beat BA fair and square, and what Ricky choses to allow, may not benefit him too well in the long run. Then again, he may be a trend setter. You don't see BA players, or any other DII school looking like that, but if they do want to look thugish, then it is their God given right to do so. I'm all for it. Hope Ricky doesn't come up short because of his choices....

 

Wow, what intelligent remarks and brilliant observations! Sure, let's be honest. What you have characterized ( the composition of the Ensworth crowd) is diversity, or at least some reflection of it. Perhaps the Ensworth crowd is in some way a microcosm of America. The beauty of football is that it is enjoyed by gang members and wine and cheese lovers alike. Have you considered that gang members may love wine and cheese also. it warms my heart to see an independent school take on this challenge. What is even more impressive is that their children are learning to sit, eat, talk, work and play together. As far as sitting together, oh well, maybe they will get there someday.

 

As to Bowers, i have a hunch he will land on his feet. He has a pretty impressive resume that includes championships and pages of victories in two sports.

[owlbooster]

OJ, You won the debate with intelligent argument and you got the last word which is something when you are going up against owl and k. K is much more skilled at debate. When he is losing an argument owl usually says that football boards aren't the place for this type of discussion. This is always after he has gone on and on about the subject at hand. The guy who made the tacky, unkind personal comments about Ensworth's players and their talented coach was just mad about being beat. I really enjoyed reading your posts and when I get back to the library I will look for the book you recommended.

As was pointed out before (did you miss it in your haste to be sarcastic?) the "guy" (JohnJacob)who originally made the "comments" was more likely a disgruntled Ensworth supporter. He talked about being solicited for the EHS football media guide and donating to the Ensworth Middle School. A BA fan "mad about being beat?" I don't think so.

 

There wasn't a "debate" or an "argument" for anybody to "win." The appearance of the players is a simple matter of OPINION not a source for "debate," especially with RACE injected into it. You either approve or disapprove of "earrings" or "long hair." There is no "right" or "wrong." And YES the football game boards are NOT "the place for this type of discussion" and I am confident that you and "oj" are in a small "minority" on this. We went from talking about the GAME to being lectured by "oj" on the "unfortunate" racial history of metro Nashville education!

 

I hope the recommended "book" gives you insight into the deeper social and racial meaning of long hair and earrings on the high school football field. Go enroll in one of oj's classes, or at least sit in on his lectures. Better still (wouldn't this be fun) meet at the library!

Edited October 11, 2010 by owlbooster

[shakinthefat]

I have seen in private school composites of graduating classes in the 60's and 70's. The hair length represented in those pictures was strange to say the least. Some even had hair longer than others. I would like to know the definition of "long hair".

Just to add fuel to the fire, I have seen private school kids with tats. Granted they try to cover them up with bandages when in the playing arena.

I suspect the coaches that allow freedom of expression openly are just as good of coaches as the disciplinarian.

So I guess you can say Bowers is a liberal coach, guess it works.

[owlbooster]

I have seen in private school composites of graduating classes in the 60's and 70's. The hair length represented in those pictures was strange to say the least. Some even had hair longer than others. I would like to know the definition of "long hair".

Just to add fuel to the fire, I have seen private school kids with tats. Granted they try to cover them up with bandages when in the playing arena.

I suspect the coaches that allow freedom of expression openly are just as good of coaches as the disciplinarian.

So I guess you can say Bowers is a liberal coach, guess it works.

For the historical record, my first post (#26) concerned "turnovers." My second (#40) dealt with TV coverage of the game. My third (#46) addressed a poster's problem with his password. Only when "ojsimpson" improperly and I think outrageously injected RACE ("white flight" etc. post #42) into the appearance issue did I say anything related to this issue. I have never laid eyes on an Ensworth player. I could care less how they look or what Bowers thinks is appropriate. It's his team, his school, his call,his public image. Doesn't affect me or my school at all.

Edited October 11, 2010 by owlbooster

[ahapplet]

As was pointed out before (did you miss it in your haste to be sarcastic?) the "guy" (JohnJacob)who originally made the "comments" was more likely a disgruntled Ensworth supporter. He talked about being solicited for the EHS football media guide and donating to the Ensworth Middle School. A BA fan "mad about being beat?" I don't think so.

 

There wasn't a "debate" or an "argument" for anybody to "win." The appearance of the players is a simple matter of OPINION not a source for "debate," especially with RACE injected into it. You either approve or disapprove of "earrings" or "long hair." There is no "right" or "wrong." And YES the football game boards are NOT "the place for this type of discussion" and I am confident that you and "oj" are in a small "minority" on this. We went from talking about the GAME to being lectured by "oj" on the "unfortunate" racial history of metro Nashville education!

 

I hope the recommended "book" gives you insight into the deeper social and racial meaning of long hair and earrings on the high school football field. Go enroll in one of oj's classes, or at least sit in on his lectures. Better still (wouldn't this be fun) meet at the library!

 

The debate was over whether the comments from john jacob were offensive or not and if they were in any way racially motivated. You engaged and lost the debate when you fell back on the old argument that the boards are not the place for this kind of discussion after you had carpal tunnel from typing lengthy rebuttals to the argument. Don't be so afraid of honest discourse, anywhere,or aren't you a first amendment kind of guy> At this point, OJ represented himself much better in the debate than you did, but please keep trying and perhaps you would like to attend a lecture or go to the library for some research on diversity and freedom of speech. OJ's comments were interesting, insightful, and intelligent. What are you so afraid of owl and forgive the alliteration, please?