10AA

[Hoopit10]

Can't we have just one thread without "recruiting" cheap shots? Until the TSSAA determines CPA is ineligable for play this year, don't demean the efforts and hard work of the kids who are just wanting to play ball.

As far as the subject at hand, if CPA stays healthy, they will not only be a district favorite but also a favorite to win the state. They are absolutely loaded with talent, size, experience, and depth. They have 7 players on the bench who would start on most teams they play.

Bradshaw (Belmont signee) had a huge AAU summer and will have a great senior year. Lindsey is rated in the top 15 sophomores in the country, Alsmiller has grown to about 6'4", had about 100 3's last year and didn't even start at the first of the year. Richard and Bonds had great years last year, Cook is back from an injury, and they have added speed and defense in Wharton. This will be a very special group.

The obvious answer – no, when people start talkin bout competition and predictions and such too many don’t like the unfair advantage CPA has created so it’s gonna come up. Only a fair discussion when comparing apples to apples, as is NOT the case here. Didn’t you admit as much in a response of yours to OfftheRecord, a post you found agreement? What do you think Off’s post was saying – “if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…? You even said “There is always a fine line between trying to be your best with noble intent, and compromising to ge(t) there.†I’ll wait around and see if my prediction comes true - no matter how much success CPA has this year or following don’t expect too many congrats.

P.S. You should quit talking like you know what really goes on and then get all mad when someone disagrees with you cuz you’ve already confessed you don’t have any real connection anymore.

[CPA4Ever]

The obvious answer – no, when people start talkin bout competition and predictions and such too many don’t like the unfair advantage CPA has created so it’s gonna come up. Only a fair discussion when comparing apples to apples, as is NOT the case here. Didn’t you admit as much in a response of yours to OfftheRecord, a post you found agreement? What do you think Off’s post was saying – “if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck…? You even said “There is always a fine line between trying to be your best with noble intent, and compromising to ge(t) there.†I’ll wait around and see if my prediction comes true - no matter how much success CPA has this year or following don’t expect too many congrats.

P.S. You should quit talking like you know what really goes on and then get all mad when someone disagrees with you cuz you’ve already confessed you don’t have any real connection anymore.

P.S. I will talk all I want in a public forum rather I have a connection or not. There is not rule that a poster has to have a connection to watch a program, go to games, and make a comment or prediction about the upcoming season. I am not "all mad" - I just don't think it is necessary to talk about CPA being illegitimate when they are a fully recognized and sanctioned team by the TSSAA.

Here's a P.S. for you. No one really cares if you congratulate CPA or not. CPA, its team and its fans' world does not revolve around what you think.

BTW, my post you quoted: “There is always a fine line between trying to be your best with noble intent, and compromising to ge(t) there.†applies to every team in the state, public or private.

Edited October 21, 2011 by CPA4Ever

[coachrus]

I am having a hard time thinking you even believe that prediction. This is not the boxing where you get to stay the champ until somebody beats you, need to base it on what is lost or gained from previous year if going to give it a good attempt!

 

I am not predicting anything with that comment. Truth is I don't know what teams have coming back this year from last year. Once we get a few games under our belts we will know a whole lot more than we do now. I'm just acknowledging East Lit run last year and whoever wants to win it this year will have to knock them off.

[OffTheRecord]

The system is broken just like the football playoffs. It shouldn't come down to guess work. To catch someone cheating/recruiting you have to have someone that is "being recruited" come forward and go on record with the facts. That hardly ever happens. If it does it becomes sour grapes or the recruit is treated horribly by their peers. Truth is just approaching a student and saying you ought to look at coming to our school for basketball, football or whatever is recruiting! Public and private schools recruit on a regular basis. Private schools don't really have a zone. They have multiple counties to work with. To hear it told now kids and their families are moving across counties to go to private schools. Funny, they pass up a lot of other schools to go to one specific school. Magnet schools get kids from an entire county. They may have to go through the lottery but really the whole county as your zone? What does metro have 70,000 students? I could put together a pretty good athletic team with that kind of draw. I'm going out on a limb an say Hume-Fogg doesn't recruit! What about the rest?

 

I seem to remember Ron Slay living in the Stratford zone. Never played there, did he? Speaking of Stratford, haven't they just become a feeder school for magnets and privates over the years? They get a small portion of East Nashville. Maplewood gets another small portion of East Nashville. Whites Creek gets their small portion of Northeast Nashville. These schools are the ones whose teams have the uphill battle. It's amazing that Maplewood has been able to do what it has with all the recruiters swarming around!

 

Maybe I'm off the subject but I couldn't help myself. The teams on the floor will win and lose fairly and squarely. The outcomes will not be disputed. The participants may forever be disputed!

[kbrks]

The system is broken just like the football playoffs. It shouldn't come down to guess work. To catch someone cheating/recruiting you have to have someone that is "being recruited" come forward and go on record with the facts. That hardly ever happens. If it does it becomes sour grapes or the recruit is treated horribly by their peers. Truth is just approaching a student and saying you ought to look at coming to our school for basketball, football or whatever is recruiting! Public and private schools recruit on a regular basis. Private schools don't really have a zone. They have multiple counties to work with. To hear it told now kids and their families are moving across counties to go to private schools. Funny, they pass up a lot of other schools to go to one specific school. Magnet schools get kids from an entire county. They may have to go through the lottery but really the whole county as your zone? What does metro have 70,000 students? I could put together a pretty good athletic team with that kind of draw. I'm going out on a limb an say Hume-Fogg doesn't recruit! What about the rest?

Well stated (on one of my favorite topics)! As far as “Truth is just approaching a student and saying you ought to look at coming to our school for basketball, football or whatever is recruiting!†to clarify for those who are unclear how to define recruiting – this is illegal recruiting. I’ll say it again, there is a very, very narrow scope of what a school can do legally in terms of promoting/recruiting for its school. Basically, outside of the guidelines covering promotional materials/advertising, school sponsored admission events (e.g. open house) or a school visit set up through the admissions office, it is ALL illegal. Any “nudging†done by a coach or anyone associated with a school (includes parents or boosters) towards the school or being the coach to help a player get to the next level whether it is at a game, in the AAU, private lesson, camp or whatever setting is illegal and should be self reported. Even if comments/questions initiated by the parent, the legal response is primarily limited to “contact the school/admissions office.†Even when a coach gets a position within admissions does not give him or her more freedom, actually if anything less, because all admissions personnel must treat all prospective students in the same manner.

 

Since TSSAA set up as a self-reporting association (not an investigative one) all those who point to the TSSAA do not understand how the system works or is set-up. Comes down to the integrity of those school communities who choose to be a member of the TSSAA and of course abiding by its rules. Idealistic – yes I know, but I still like to think there are coaches and others willing to work within the narrow scope to insure its programs are above board. When coaching, I never saw it as a problem to work within this structure.

[coachrus]

I find it interesting that the best player on Hillsboro's team last year as a junior can transfer to Pearl-Cohn and not have to sit out a year as a Senior. I don't know what "rules" allow this to happen, but the bottom line is that it should not happen. I agree that the system is broken, but let's be honest, it is not just the private schools, it is the public schools as well. Those that just level accusation on the private schools without any evidence should take a look at their own schools and the recruiting that takes place in the public schools.

[OffTheRecord]

Coachrus, I agree! It's not just the private schools that warp the rules! The boy from Hillsboro shouldn't be eligible but those in charge of keeping the game fair are content with sticking their collective heads in the sand! Truth be known they don't want a lawsuit filed against them for treating kids at Pearl Cohn unfairly. People were outraged when a school didn't get enough text books. Imagine what would happen if some poor kid couldn't play ball.

 

Let's be clear though, it's not the schools that break the rules, it's those certain win at all costs coaches that would rather break the rules than allow their egos to take a hit. I know the majority of the recruiting accusations center around CPA. Here's my question. Did anyone ever accuse Ellson or Brooks of cheating? Answer is NO! It started when Maddux got the job and Z Mason was immediately allowed to return to the school after he had been kicked out a year earlier.

 

Pearl Cohn was the talk of Nashville hoops in the 90's when Collins was there. Did he recruit? Maybe, maybe not but he sure benefitted from the Fitzgeralds AAU team. What about Lipscomb? Do they recruit? I bet you Roller never went out looking for players.

 

Funny thing about the kid leaving Hillsboro, until about four years ago Hillsboro was getting everybody else's kids. I think they were nicknamed Special Transfer High. Lol

[coachrus]

Coachrus, I agree! It's not just the private schools that warp the rules! The boy from Hillsboro shouldn't be eligible but those in charge of keeping the game fair are content with sticking their collective heads in the sand! Truth be known they don't want a lawsuit filed against them for treating kids at Pearl Cohn unfairly. People were outraged when a school didn't get enough text books. Imagine what would happen if some poor kid couldn't play ball.

 

Let's be clear though, it's not the schools that break the rules, it's those certain win at all costs coaches that would rather break the rules than allow their egos to take a hit. I know the majority of the recruiting accusations center around CPA. Here's my question. Did anyone ever accuse Ellson or Brooks of cheating? Answer is NO! It started when Maddux got the job and Z Mason was immediately allowed to return to the school after he had been kicked out a year earlier.

 

Pearl Cohn was the talk of Nashville hoops in the 90's when Collins was there. Did he recruit? Maybe, maybe not but he sure benefitted from the Fitzgeralds AAU team. What about Lipscomb? Do they recruit? I bet you Roller never went out looking for players.

 

Funny thing about the kid leaving Hillsboro, until about four years ago Hillsboro was getting everybody else's kids. I think they were nicknamed Special Transfer High. Lol

 

 

Since Z Mason was at CPA before Maddux got there your going to have to come up with a different accusation. That one isn't going to fly. Surely you can do better than that.

[OffTheRecord]

Since Z Mason was at CPA before Maddux got there your going to have to come up with a different accusation. That one isn't going to fly. Surely you can do better than that.

Good point! My only thought is why kick out a kid and turn around and let him back in. I will go back to my archives.

[coachrus]

Good point! My only thought is why kick out a kid and turn around and let him back in. I will go back to my archives.

 

There are many instances of CPA students being kicked out and then let back in at a later date. It is a school historically known for giving kids a second chance whether they play sports or not. This should be viewed as a positive, not as a detriment.

[kbrks]

Good point! My only thought is why kick out a kid and turn around and let him back in. I will go back to my archives.

Z came to CPA during middle school and if memory serves me correctly it was for his 7th grade year. Yes, during his freshman year he had committed a violation of school policy that led to his being dismissed. From the beginning though and to his credit, it was Z’s intention to own up for his mistake and do what he needed to do to return to CPA. School policy would not allow it during the same academic year, but he could be considered for re-admission the following academic year which is what happened. No real problem there.

 

What has come under question and scrutiny is the sheer number of players coming from other school and school systems over the last few years. Now very hard to find those on the basketball roster who came up through the ranks in elementary or spent more than one year in middle school. 2 years ago Ellson was the lone senior from Maddux’s first team he coached at CPA – the 8th grade. Last year there wasn’t anyone since Mulvihill did not play. This year, Cook is a senior and Brown a junior (I think). Could be others, but those are the only two I know of who are on current varsity roster who have been there since elementary.

 

The reason you don’t hear it about any recruiting from when I coached was because it never happened. I had no interest of being involved in AAU or give private lessons to players from other schools for obvious reasons. One of them is not being in a position where there could be a conflict of interest or give others reason to question what was going on.

[coachrus]

Z came to CPA during middle school and if memory serves me correctly it was for his 7th grade year. Yes, during his freshman year he had committed a violation of school policy that led to his being dismissed. From the beginning though and to his credit, it was Z’s intention to own up for his mistake and do what he needed to do to return to CPA. School policy would not allow it during the same academic year, but he could be considered for re-admission the following academic year which is what happened. No real problem there.

 

Thanks for clearing that accusation up. I am sure that you have more knowledge of the Z Mason situation than most. But this just goes to show that it is easy to make unsubstantiated accusations without knowing the facts.