A Really Radical Suggestion...

[supersteve17]

So far the best reason given why my "really radical suggestion" will not be taken seriously was given by imasoftballer -- money. It is sad when we set aside the best interests of high school children to pay homage to the almighty dollar. I guess that is the world we live in today.

[BDURHAM]

SuperSteve:

 

Conceptually, I think you are suggesting a utopian-type of system. For example, Riverdale is not going to play McCallie in a bowl game. 95% of the public coaches will not play the privates in a bowl game. The downside of losing is too great.

 

I also disagree with the money issue. An insitution will not divest itself of power, which is usually money, but in the case of the TSSAA, it is more an issue of control.

 

If the public schools generally didn't like the present system, they would vote to change it. Again, I think the reality is that the schools are doing what the majority wants to do.

 

If you are one of those who thinks college football is better under the bowl system than a playoff system, I would debate you on the basis of competition and the rewards of championships. Playing for a championship game is better life training than playing to get to the Citrus Bowl.

 

 

The reality is that teams would not be playing as many different teams as they presently do under your proposal. You would rarely have a Maryville - Hillsboro bowl game. Who would want to bring Hillsboro to a bowl game?

 

Better competition under the playoff system with all its flaws. And if the coaches wanted to change it, they would change it through the TSSAA.

[supersteve17]

Posted by StanTrott:

SuperSteve:

 

Conceptually, I think you are suggesting a utopian-type of system. For example, Riverdale is not going to play McCallie in a bowl game. 95% of the public coaches will not play the privates in a bowl game. The downside of losing is too great.

 

I also disagree with the money issue. An insitution will not divest itself of power, which is usually money, but in the case of the TSSAA, it is more an issue of control.

 

If the public schools generally didn't like the present system, they would vote to change it. Again, I think the reality is that the schools are doing what the majority wants to do.

 

If you are one of those who thinks college football is better under the bowl system than a playoff system, I would debate you on the basis of competition and the rewards of championships. Playing for a championship game is better life training than playing to get to the Citrus Bowl.

 

 

The reality is that teams would not be playing as many different teams as they presently do under your proposal. You would rarely have a Maryville - Hillsboro bowl game. Who would want to bring Hillsboro to a bowl game?

 

Better competition under the playoff system with all its flaws. And if the coaches wanted to change it, they would change it through the TSSAA.

 

I realy don't disagree with anything you have said with the possible exception of your point about money and control. We could be talking semantics here. Maybe I'm a bit cynical, but I find it hard to separate the concept of power and control from money related issues. In either case, the point remains the same. Adults won't do what is best for kids! (I'm not trying to be sanctimonious. I get caught up in it also.)

 

With all due respect about your Citrus Bowl analogy, those who play in the Citrus Bowl are playing for a championship -- the championship of the Citrus Bowl! The only reason there is a negative stigma attached to it or other games like it is that we have attached a negative stigma to it!

 

One of the bases for my "really radical suggestion" is that many people (not sure how many, but they are vocal) have problems with the current system. My observation is that these problems arise out of the accusations of "unfair advantages." I submit that there is no end to such accusations -- primarily because any advantage that goes against me and mine is deemed to be "unfair."

 

I love (and think it healthy) the competition that arises from playoff situations. If we didn't have a vocal group (minority?) who wanted to change the system and separate anyone who has an "unfair advantage" we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

Ultimately in our present system majority will rule, as you have pointed out. That is why public schools voted to separate Division I from Division II. The split was based on emotional and not rational consideration of what is an "unfair advantage." My personal conviction is that this split was not for the better. I believe we have weakened competition and cheapened championships in every classification. I don't think further separation and isolation will accomplish the purpose of crowning a "true champion."

[swamp]

My personal conviction is that this split was not for the better. I believe we have weakened competition and cheapened championships in every classification. I don't think further separation and isolation will accomplish the purpose of crowning a "true champion."

 

I am not sure I completely agree with everything that you have said elsewhere in this post, but this part is completely true.

[BDURHAM]

I disagree about the split being based more on emotion than reason. The privates in 1A demonstrate that there are too many advantages for some private schools.

 

I didn't like it when the national speed limit became 55 on the interstates, but I understand we need a speed "limit." I think we need different classifications based on enrollments, and there needs to be some factor in the equation for private schools.

 

================================================

 

Teams are free to play each other in the regular season. How many 4A and 5A public schools do you see playing private schools?

 

In the final analysis, most public school coaches believe there is a real difference between public and private schools. We will never go back to the way it used to be. And some privates are as guilty as the publics for creating and perpetuating the split.

[supersteve17]

Stan,

 

I love your posts. Your logic is usually sound and you make good points. I give you credit for that. I still don't think you have addressed my statements about "unfair advantages." In your last post you once again alluded to the "advantages" that the private schools have. You did not address the advantages the public schools have or the disadvantages private schools have.

 

You are correct in saying that some private schools wanted or had as much to do with the split as publics. I do not dispute that. I would suggest that the number of privates who really wanted a split is very small -- probably not even the seven or eight schools in Division II AAA. My point is that essentially the reason we have a split is that public schools, who rule the TSSAA, voted for the split and it became reality. The fact is that if every private school in TSSAA had voted against it, it would not have mattered. I'm not trying to sound like a crybaby but I think the facts will bear me out. What it amounts to is that public schools, who hold the overwhelming majority of the TSSAA memberships, decide what advantages are "fair" and which ones are "unfair."

[VolunteerGeneral]

Stan....have you given your opinion on the magnet thread? I couldn`t remember?

[BDURHAM]

Supersteve,

 

I've enjoyed reading your posts, and it knocked me out of my private debate slumber. I have listed what I thought were advantages and disadvantages in the past, but it becomes a dead horse issue. Either we agree on them, or we never will type of deal.

 

The biggest injustice is that the privates have no votes within the TSSAA. I would like to hear how the TSSAA defends this, but they probably don't have to.

 

Did I ask you if you like the present college football system, with no play-offs? I want to see a playoff, and it would create a huge payoff. Money doesn't appear to control the issue, but the centralized power and distribution of the existing money rules. I think there is a difference.

 

Publics hold the power with the votes, and I think the TSSAA control and money is secondary...a by-product of the votes.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

If I could create the system, we would not have a split, but the privates couldn't play small rural schools. If a kid wanted to play football at a private school, he would have to choose a school that had football and played bigger public schools.

 

The privates that couldn't compete at the higher levels should drop football. Let those kids play for another private or the public school in their neighborhood.

 

For my own peace of mind, I am going to have to study some classifications in diverse states, such as Massachusetts and Texas. I want to know how it is being done in other states.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Before the split, did you know some privates and publics would not play each other? I think CMA and Columbia Central never played each other. To me, that is weird.

 

Did Castle Heights ever play Lebanon? Did everyone play Baylor and McCallie in Chattanooga?

[Edited by StanTrott on 10-26-02 10:43A]

 

[BDURHAM]

VolGen:

 

No, but the only magnate I know of that is any good at football is Tyner Academy. And Coach Turner will play anyone who will play him.

 

Anyone ever see the Tyner - Giles County game years back in Pulaski? They tell me it was one of the hardest-hitting games some people have ever seen.

 

Posted by VolunteerGeneral:

Stan....have you given your opinion on the magnet thread? I couldn`t remember?

[VolunteerGeneral]

Actually, I was wondering if you think magnets should be included with privates if there is a change? If you don`t think they should, then you should go over there and say so. So far I believe everyone is in agreement that magnets and open zoned schools in Memphis should be included.

[Chakra20]

VolGen please drop the magnet thing you have your own thread for it everyone agrres they should private. As far whhat everyone that doesnt want a split goto a 1a or 2a school then goto a private school in same division thats all you have todo. You see the differnces in size money etc.. In bakc to back week i have been to Coolinwood and Jo byrns while both having good facilites then travel over to CPA and you will know why this must happen.

 

It really is kinda sad like the end of an era but it has just became time. good Luck to all the small public schools and Good Luck Ezell.

 

On a side note its gonnna be easy for Ezell to find its regualr season games because of the number of private schools in Nashville. What about teams like USJ in Jackson and BBS and Tyner in Chattanooga they are gonna have a tough time with games. Especailly if they dont play division 2 large teams McCallie and the likes.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Posted by Chakra20:

VolGen please drop the magnet thing you have your own thread for it everyone agrres they should private. As far whhat everyone that doesnt want a split goto a 1a or 2a school then goto a private school in same division thats all you have todo. You see the differnces in size money etc.. In bakc to back week i have been to Coolinwood and Jo byrns while both having good facilites then travel over to CPA and you will know why this must happen.

 

It really is kinda sad like the end of an era but it has just became time. good Luck to all the small public schools and Good Luck Ezell.

 

On a side note its gonnna be easy for Ezell to find its regualr season games because of the number of private schools in Nashville. What about teams like USJ in Jackson and BBS and Tyner in Chattanooga they are gonna have a tough time with games. Especailly if they dont play division 2 large teams McCallie and the likes.

 

 

Chakra...I saw Stan posting on this thread and was just trying to get his opinion on the subject. He posts on this board a lot and I couldn`t remember if he had joined in on the magnet debate. It`s a good topic to discuss. Mainly because in the end if there is a split, I feel the TSSAA will have to show just cause for the split. The biggest reason on this board has been that they have no zones. If that is why they do it, then I feel the TSSAA will open themselves up for another huge lawsuit. Not saying that will happen, but I just don`t think the TSSAA wants to get back in the court system again. I know there is a lot of talk from the public schools that they want a split, but frankly I don`t think the TSSAA will do it.

I`m not sure if USJ would have a hard time or not. Probably not. Southside (3A) and Northside (4A) are on their schedule for next year. JCM was trying to work something out with them too.

What kind of trouble did you have at Collinwood?