Hey kenwoodrun and tonto....

[mikemcgee]

I'm a Tullahoma sportswriter who will confess to being pretty ignorant about cross country. I've enjoyed reading this board for some time, especially what you two write. Can you give me an assessment of Tullahoma as far as how the boys stack up on a statewide basis? Can they finish top-10 at state, and if so, would that be considered an outstanding accomplishment? Top five? Who usually wins these things? Thanks in advance for any input.

[BPolley]

i'll say that the winner usually comes from either houston, farragut, knox west, bearden, and oak ridge. those teams seem to be consistently the top 5. it will probably be houston or mcminn county this year.

[Guest kenwoodrun]

Tonto being an ex-Cookeville guy is going to have a better feel for Tullahoma than I, but I would say top ten would be a good place for Tullahoma to set their sights. Just like in any other sport, momentum means something. They just won the conference, they just won the region, and going in they've got to feel good. The field is pretty tough, and Brad is right about Houston and McMinn being the favored duo in the AAA race. Top ten in the AAA race is not an outstanding accomplishment in the eyes of someone like Farragut, but for those of us in Middle Tennessee, a top ten finish would be nice. Last year's middle TN reps in the boys race went 12th (Cookeville), 14-16 (Lavergne, Hendersonville, Oakland), and down from there. If Tonto can compare the Cookeville team that finished 12th to this year's Tullahoma bunch, I think you'll have a pretty good feel for where they'll be this year. I will say overall that AAA is slightly down this year as compared to '01. But they've got a good coach with state experience from his FRA powerhouse days, so they'll be as sharp as they are going to be this weekend.

E-mail kenwoodrun@aol.com if I can be of any help to you.

[tonto]

You will find one of the most important aspects of our sport to be its unpredictability. I could peg Tullahoma as a definite top ten, but they are a team that is up and down. There are so many factors to consider such as the strength of the competition compared to other years and the way certain teams react to pressure. After rising to the occassion last week, I don't think they'll blow up under pressure (but who am I to say). To put our region's history in perspective, dating back to 1997 when the current regions were aligned, 1997-2000, Oakland wins 4 straight region titles. 2001, Cookeville becomes first team besides Oakland to win. 2002, Tullahoma wins first region title (My guess is that they are pretty pumped about winning regions). Their top three runners are the strength that keeps them near the top at most of their meets. They could be a definite top ten team, but their 4 and 5 guys have been a weakness for them all year. Their top guy, Brad Shelton has a real shot at being all-state (Top 15) if he has a good day, in my opinion. Also, I would say #2 runner, KC Thomas has an outside shot of being there too. Top ten for a middle TN AAA team is a relatively big deal considering the tough competition coming from Memphis and East TN. Right now a state-wide XC expert has Tullahoma ranked as fifth in AAA...that's pretty impressive...We (Cookeville) cracked the top ten on his poll last year a few times, but flopped at state. Tullahoma has a respectable cross country program with a pretty good tradition. Current runner Michael Welsh (#3 guy) is the brother of a former TN XC star, John Welsh (THS), now running Ivy League at Dartmouth. Kenwood was pretty close comparing them to last year's CHS team, however, they are stronger up top and have the benefit of a slightly weaker field. Putting the times that I think they are capable of running into last year's results, I came up with a team score close to 6th or 7th place. All things considered, I would pick Tullahoma to finish between 6th and 11th, but I would CERTAINLY not rule out the first-ever Top 5 finish by a middle TN AAA team (since the DII realignment in 1997). As far as giving you a statewide perspective, the powerhouses in AAA over the years would be Farragut, Science Hill, , Knox West, Oak Ridge, Dobyns-Bennett, Houston, Bolton and others. As you can tell, the geographic layout of the powerhouses puts us Middle TN people at a disadvantage (basically, nobody cares). Seeing a middle TN team in the top 5 would come as a pretty big shock to most observers, and even one in the top 10 is worth looking twice to make sure you read it right (by the way, 24 teams at state). The outlook for their team is bright heading into Saturday...we'll just have to wait and see (by the way Kenwood, I'll be there supporting my boys, I'll holler at you if i see you.)

[Edited by tonto on 10-28-02 11:57P]

[Edited by tonto on 10-29-02 12:03A]

[mikemcgee]

Just as I expected, great information from all of you. I know the Tullahoma kids will be pumped but I've already learned this is a very unpredictable sport. Good luck to all your runners this weekend. I don't know a lot about it, but I do know it's a tough sport and I admire any athlete that is willing to make the sacrifices needed to make it this far. They're all tough kids in my book, and at the risk of sounding like a Pollyanna, I have to say that any kid that goes out there Saturday and leaves it all on the course is going to be a winner.

[peacemaker]

Not to sound like an "I told you so......" or anything- cause I love you guys, but WHO was it said way early on that I thouht Mcminn would finish top 3, and if I'm not mistaken sombody said that would be a huge jump from last year- going from 11th to 3rd, and not very likely. I will also say, " I predict BCHS in he top 7- hopefully top 5." We have been majorly closing the gap on Mcminn every time we have raced them! Have a good week, Im heading out of town this a.m. and won't be back til Friday morning- in time to head out to NASHVILLE! C- Ya there! Maybe I'll introduce myself! Kenwood- you are the girls Coach right? :o Im just BCHS parent- of one of the freshman boys! Good Luck everybody!

[tonto]

If you look at the thread titled "fall," (you'll have to go back a little bit)...nobody ever discredits mcminn, in fact i agree with you in that thread about mcminn having a shot this year. you, however, boldly predict that bradley will be in the top 3 (not top 5 as you now say)...and THAT is when kenwood said "going from 20th to 3rd would be a huge jump."...just clearing this up...don't want you to gloat too much thinking that you made all the right predictions...just kidding, have a great trip and good luck to your kid and his team.

[Guest kenwoodrun]

July 22nd, I posted this:

"Third in the state? Well, he asked for bold predicitions, that's certainly bold. Going from 20th to 3rd in one season can be done but it does not very often...especially when Farragut, Houston and Bearden, Bartlett and those guys tend to "reload" as fast as they graduate guys."

 

I stand by that 100%...20th to 3rd is extremely rare. Especially when there are only 24 teams, and the bottom three are from Nashville like last year, 20th is virtually dead last. To be third in 2002 would mean beating everyone in the state except for Houston and McMinn. To come from virtually last in 2001 all the way to being able to beat Farragut, Oak Ridge, Science Hill, Dobyns-Bennett, Bearden, Bolton, Bartlett and Tullahoma...in ONE YEAR...would be an EPIC leap. Not impossible, but epic. Which is what I said in the first place. No one should ever, ever estimate tradition rich teams like Farragut, OR and the like...they find a way to get things done when it counts. The fact that they have tradition means they usually have a coach that understands this time of year that can craft and motivate his/her athletes to peak at the right time. Again, I wish Bradley luck...they most certainly should beat our boys this weekend...but there's no reasonable way to question what I originally said.

Any doubting I did concerning McMinn I ceased after I saw them in person at TN Classic. They made me a believer, they are tough and deep enough. However, I am not pulling for them because of the unadulterated garbage some McMinn folks filled the web up with this summer (see Polley's previous post).

And I am the girls coach at Kenwood, and the distance coach in track in the spring. We're hoping realistically to be anywhere in the top half of the field of 24 Saturday. Weather looks chillier than anything we've seen yet, should be interesting. Good luck to all, happy PR's.

(And Tonto, it'd be sweet to run into you this weekend, I'll be lurking around our big white ghetto tent...)

[tonto]

Speaking of huge leaps...I don't think anyone will make a bigger leap from 2001 to 2002 than Tullahoma...22nd last year.

[Guest kenwoodrun]

Hey, thanks for messing up my arguement, man....(j/k)...I was happy to see the Tullahoma coach get the Midstate coach of the year award at banquet the other night...they have stepped mightily (as has BC).

BTW, there are going to be MAJOR changes in the Midstate Conference next year, and in Region 5 as well. We have a meeting on Nov. 9th and I'll post the news when it's out, but I know already that Tomkins Farm is out for all 3 races we usually run on it, and that our regional is moving from the golf course in Gallatin to Macon County in Lafayette. It'll never be the same.

[tonto]

Yeah, I'll bet it was nice to see him get that award...I know it always goes to the winning coach, but I really thought Coach Wrasman(CHS) should've gotten it last year for making such huge leaps...when he took over back in the day, CHS finished near the bottom EVERYHERE they went. He did have a couple of ladies teams that were very good a while back and some Division I ladies recruits, but he just built the men's program from scratch. Anyways, I congratulate the Tullahoma coach.

Wow, so where are all the conference meets going to be held? And have you ever seen Macon Co's course (or the backroads it takes to get there)? We're talking major PR's if regions are held on a course that easy...I would say 15-20 seconds faster than Steeplechase. I don't even think it's three miles. It's saving grace, however, is that it is only one lap...making it less taxing on the mentality of a runner.

[hometownhero]

I know Tullahoma has done well at Tompkins and Cookeville but how have they done at the Steeplechase? Has Shelton even run that course this year?