Officiating

[blankguy]

Can you???

9.9.1 Situation A:

A1 catches the throw-in pass with one foot on the floor in A's frontcourt and the other foot not touching the floor.  The non-pivot foot then comes down in A's backcourt. Ruling: Violation. Player and team control are established in A's frontcourt when A1 catches the throw-in pass. The violation occurs when A1 subsequently touches the backcourt with the non-pivot foot. (4-12-6; 9-9-3)

 

 

Maybe the rule book is wrong????

I will say it again read the rule book

If that is what is written then I guess you're right.

[tradertwo]

If that is what is written then I guess you're right.

Exactly my point.You said that I was too quick to criticize officiating, and that I was mistaken about the violation...you then enlightened us that your own knowledge of the rulebook is vague at best. If you are an official (I assume that you are from your post) my hat's off to you for doing a job where the compensation isn't all that great and the criticism greatly outweighs the thank-you's...there aren't many "jobs" that aren't in the same category concerning education and athletics. Coaches, assistants, officials, and even school board members accept lots of responsibility with little reward for their efforts, but they all asked for that responsibility and are accountable for their performance. Like I've said before, I can accept error but not lack of effort.

[blankguy]

Exactly my point.You said that I was too quick to criticize officiating, and that I was mistaken about the violation...you then enlightened us that your own knowledge of the rulebook is vague at best. If you are an official (I assume that you are from your post) my hat's off to you for doing a job where the compensation isn't all that great and the criticism greatly outweighs the thank-you's...there aren't many "jobs" that aren't in the same category concerning education and athletics. Coaches, assistants, officials, and even school board members accept lots of responsibility with little reward for their efforts, but they all asked for that responsibility and are accountable for their performance. Like I've said before, I can accept error but not lack of effort.

If you want to get crazy, this is from the NCAA rules book:

9-13 Art. 10. After a jump ball or during a throw-in, the player in his front court, who

makes the initial touch on the ball while both feet are off the playing court, may

be the first to secure control of the ball and land with one or both feet in the back

court. It makes no difference if the first foot down was in the front court or back

court.

I know this isn't college but you may can see where it is different in both NCAA and HS; that is why I thought it was not a violation. Wasn't vague but just "thought" it was the same rule.

[tradertwo]

If you want to get crazy, this is from the NCAA rules book:

9-13 Art. 10. After a jump ball or during a throw-in, the player in his front court, who

makes the initial touch on the ball while both feet are off the playing court, may

be the first to secure control of the ball and land with one or both feet in the back

court. It makes no difference if the first foot down was in the front court or back

court.

I know this isn't college but you may can see where it is different in both NCAA and HS; that is why I thought it was not a violation. Wasn't vague but just "thought" it was the same rule.

Not here to get crazy,or even argue. I never said anything about one foot here or there, just caught the ball in the air and came down in the backcourt. If you want to claim you thought something else so that it appears you didn't contradict the actual rule that is OK with me. All I ask for is that you know the rules of the game.

[blankguy]

Understandable. In the normal course of play, not a throw-in, typically a lot of people think you can jump from the front court, catch the ball in mid-air, and then land in the backcourt. This is what I thought was said happened. I didn't realize it was a throw-in situation. People think you have to have all three points (both feet and the ball) to be considered in the front court- this only pertains to dribbling and there are some quirks to that to mr.rules knowledge (jl2014).

If you take my original reply and read a few other replies, I said I did not read the "inbounds pass."

"Since my last post I witnessed an inbounds pass to a player who lept from the frontcourt, caught the ball in midair, and landed in the backcourt."

 

Obviously, I made a big mistake even trying to give my two cents because you all definitely more enlightened about rules than me. I'll go read the rule book and ref my middle school games. Thanks for the advice!

[tradertwo]

You didn't give two cents (your opinion), you stated that the wrong call was made after it was explained. You obviously have a problem just saying that you were wrong and leaving it at that. I have no problem with discussion, but will not argue a mute point, so I won't post again on this matter...good luck with your games.

[blankguy]

You didn't give two cents (your opinion), you stated that the wrong call was made after it was explained. You obviously have a problem just saying that you were wrong and leaving it at that. I have no problem with discussion, but will not argue a mute point, so I won't post again on this matter...good luck with your games.

OBVIOUSLY, you didn't read an earlier reply... it's below.

 

If that is what is written then I guess you're right.

[PrettiCute]

Ok, I have a couple of questions...No, I do not know the rules and no, I am not going to read them.  lol

 

Here is the scenario:

 

Player is in mid-air hits a 3 point jump-shot, gets fouled hard while in mid-air (hits the floor); Player reaction he says the d-word (not condoning) out of pain I am sure it didn't feel all that great.  However, the Referee standing right there (angle was not an issue, he was the only one in the area of the court  (so he should have been paying attention since the ball was in play, the other refs where on the sideline down the floor and opposite side of the court)  He did not make the call for a foul which it came long before the d-word, however, he calls a technical on the player who said the d-word; How does that happen?  Not disputing the technical so much, but no foul call, really?

 

General questions:

1>  3 refs assigned in the game, Why is it some never blow their whistles during the entire game? Not saying all 3 not blowing, but 1 is making the majority of the calls and I know he does not have every angle of the court.

 

2> Yes refs are human and probably heard everything under the sun, Why take the game out on the players because the fans or i.e. coach said something you didn't like?  Because before they got under your skin, the game was being called fair but not so much, especially since you want to start throwing people out of the game because they asked what your name was so they could report you;  

 

3> Player is every bit of about 4 feet tall, How does player drive to the lane among the trees and get called for an offensive foul? And I am not talking about a charge either, player is driving to make the layup and getting hit all on the top of the head.

 

4> How long is the training to become referees and do they take refresher courses and I'm not talking about training when the season begins on the court?  (whatever it is doesn't appear to be long enough for some of them)

 

P.S. - In the end, the team won the game regardless of the bad, missed, no calls by the refs.  I just believe when this happens it sucks the wind and momentum out of the game a lot of times.  If you cannot call it fair on both ends of the floor without bias, don't call it, let them play unless you discern it is physically getting ready to be out of hand.

Edited February 10, 2014 by PrettiCute

[dick vitale]

Officiating over the last couple of years has gotten worse. Most of the good older officials are having trouble keeping up with the speed of the game. I am seeing a lot of older officials who are continually out of position. You can't be fat and old and be a decent official.

 

Many of the younger officials are complete power tripping wanna be's. I have seen many in the last year or two refuse to talk to coaches at all. A lot of them are obviously not athletic, and I have seen way too many who call walks on anything that looks athletic, while not noticing things like the pivot foot, and the fact that many kids don't use one.

 

Still see officials who don't really understand simple rules like over/back, and the 3 second rule. Saw a 3 second call a week or so ago where a kid drove to the basket, shot, rebounded like 4 times. He got called for 3 seconds.....

 

 

As for being paid pretty well, well yeah they are. I don't see many people spending 25-30 in gas to drive, but if they do then ok Most make $125-$150 for a pair of games. Minus your theoretical $25 for gas and you come up with 75-100 for 3 hours worth of work. So $25-33/hour. Not bad, most people would take that.

There are only 10 rules in the book! Can you please show me where "over the back" is a rule? Know what you're talking about before you speak please !

[TCBinTN]

There are only 10 rules in the book! Can you please show me where "over the back" is a rule? Know what you're talking about before you speak please !

Wow, what a moron. No where did I speak of an "over the back" call. I mentioned over/back as in one goes into the front court and established position and then steps back into the back court. You should probably learn from the old adage that it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak (or write) and prove it. Have a good day.

[yort45]

PrettiCute, over and back: you must have both feet AND the ball across the half line before going back is not allowed. in the matter of a throw in, the entire floor is available, regardless, up until the point where poessesion is in the offensive court completely. example: throw it in and players jumps for it from the front court and perhaps lands with ball and two feet in back court (okay) or lands with one foot in front court and one in back court (still okay). you may have already known this but just in case.

 

1> if youve ever reffed a game, you know its a lot like work. some people just cant (or wont) do the job. reffing at the high school level is not the highlight of their lives, id bet. some of them dont give two BLEEPS about it. its a bummer, but true. you can especially tell this by how girls games are reffed vs boys games.

 

2> youre right, some officials have it out for people. idk why. this rule goes both ways: dont be a jerk. we all love the game and should respect each others point of view. i watched a tourney game this year where a coach got a T in the first quarter after the ref had been eyeing him for the entire quarter. it was unwarranted and wierd. i was sitting right behind the bench and nothing was said to warrant it. i am also not affiliated with that coach or team.

 

3> players who are 4 ft can foul. idk what the circumstances were regarding this foul youre reffering to, but it couldve been a charge. maybe it was a shot attempt and then a push on the rebound if he didnt have position.getting bopped on the head doesnt constitute a foul specifically.

 

4> good point. idk, but id like to find out. i think its this simple: buy your gear, take an open book ref test, and BOOM, youre a ref in tssaa. not much regarding "training" but you might have to go to camps and a little bit of evaluation occassionally. how are the refs chosen for dist tourney, region tourney, and state tourney? maybe they are voted or chosen by fellow refs. this creates a "butt kissing" society in the work place. not good.

 

this post is coming off of some very controversial calls in the ncaa tourney. the point about the UT call that is a good one is not that it wasnt a foul. the point is, should the refs be calling fouls, LIKE THAT, at this point in the game?

 

i also apologize for any grammatical errors.

[Footballlover23]

Web site Tssaa.org. You can sign up to be an official. If not quit your whining. There some weak officials out there. Just like there are poor doctors, lawyers, factory workers, ect.