The Pipeline....

[YOUTHCOACH16]

My son wrestled for the HCAC for 3 years. He enjoyed the experience and so did I. Did he get better? A little. But most importantly, he enjoyed it.

 

I realized that he was only 12, 13 and 14 years old. I realize there's still lots of life left for pressure. One reason the rules are as they are is to allow kids to try multiple sports. One can play football, basketball, wrestle and baseball. Now they will have an idea if they want to specialize in high school. Believe it or not, there is more to life other than wrestling. We're talking about 12, 13 and 14 year olds. Perhaps many are meant to be touring the country from tournament to tournament to satisfy dad's thirst. But not all. Many just want to wrestle and enjoy it. Upon completion of the HCAC season my son got 3 months of freestyle and Greco. That left July - December to train 'offseason'. There's plenty of opportunities to get better. I wasn't worried about him missing important events (if there is such a thing at that age).

 

Tom Brands and Mark Schwab both have kids that wrestle. They wrestle with dad at home on the couch. Both are adamant about their sons not starting too early. But again, all kids are different.

 

I am all for middle school wrestling. I think its vital and brings in many new kids to the sport each year that wouldnt ever be exposed to wrestling otherwise. The point of this topic is that some feel Chattanooga is slipping and losing its stronghold. It is slipping compared to its past history. My son played every sport known to man growing up and stil plays multiple sports. The majority of my kids on my youth teams play 2-3 sports as well. I encourage my kids to take  a break from wrestling and play something else. I dont even let them wrestle freestyle unless they are adamant about it. They all got a lot more mat time than the Tmssaa kids while still enjoying other sports   BUT... it should not be dictated down to the parents and kids that they can only compete in their middle school league. If that is what a parent choses to do then by all means thats what they should do but if they want to wrestle more than 12-15 matches a year then they should be able to. Your son wrestled more than just the Hcac as I clearly remember you entering him into other tournaments and you stated he wrestled freestyle and greco as well. You are obviously  very inviolved in our sport so your son had other opportunities outside the hcac a lot of other kids dont get. Most of the teams across the state have pulled out of the Tmssaa for this very reason and they are enjoying huge growth and success our Chattanooga area kids arent getting at the middle school level and it is paying off huge divedends at their high schools now.

Edited February 6, 2014 by YOUTHCOACH16

[russianbear]

Please excuse my ignorance Mike. Are we talking about restrictions from the Tmssaa or the restrictions from HCAC? The HCAC (to my knowledge) has always had restrictions about competing in other events during their short season (Christmas - mid march). I can understand this because of some parents wanting to pull their kids from in season competition to compete in other events. This puts kids and coaches in the middle of a possible dilemma (missing team competitions to pursue individual tournaments).

 

I've got to admit I'm completely unfamiliar with Tmssaa restrictions other than not allowing Tmssaa coaches to run practice in the offseason (much like the soon to be abolished TSSAA restrictions)

Edited February 7, 2014 by russianbear

[YOUTHCOACH16]

Please excuse my ignorance Mike. Are we talking about restrictions from the Tmssaa or the restrictions from HCAC? The HCAC (to my knowledge) has always had restrictions about competing in other events during their short season (Christmas - mid march). I can understand this because of some parents wanting to pull their kids from in season competition to compete in other events. This puts kids and coaches in the middle of a possible dilemma (missing team competitions to pursue individual tournaments).

 

I've got to admit I'm completely unfamiliar with Tmssaa restrictions other than not allowing Tmssaa coaches to run practice in the offseason (much like the soon to be abolished TSSAA restrictions)

 

Ive always been told the Hcac restrictions are due to Tmssaa restrictions but Im not sure if thats entirley accurate. I know a lot of schools pulled out of the Tmssaa for this reason. Our kids couldnt even go to the Dixie nationals at one time and several Baylor and Cleveland kids had to sit out of some league matches and even the end of season tournament because of it. A kid wants to challenge himself and face some tough competetion and hes banned from wrestling in his league? I agree completley about kids not missing their school matches to compete in outside events but seeing how the Hcac only wrestles two tournaments I dont think that would be an issue and should be handled by each coach. Its really none of my business what they do but when people say Chattanooga wrestling is getting weaker because of the youth league I feel compelled to point out the facts. The facts are Chattanooga has one the youth state championship every year since they started keeping team points. The youth age Chattanooga teams have won every single dual meet ever wrested since we started having a youth state duals tournament.  The middle school age has progressivley gone in the opposite direction so in my opionion based on facts it would appear thats where other areas are surpassing us simply due to more quality matches.  

[BlackknightGATA]

My son wrestled for the HCAC for 3 years. He enjoyed the experience and so did I. Did he get better? A little. But most importantly, he enjoyed it.

 

I realized that he was only 12, 13 and 14 years old. I realize there's still lots of life left for pressure. One reason the rules are as they are is to allow kids to try multiple sports. One can play football, basketball, wrestle and baseball. Now they will have an idea if they want to specialize in high school. Believe it or not, there is more to life other than wrestling. We're talking about 12, 13 and 14 year olds. Perhaps many are meant to be touring the country from tournament to tournament to satisfy dad's thirst. But not all. Many just want to wrestle and enjoy it. Upon completion of the HCAC season my son got 3 months of freestyle and Greco. That left July - December to train 'offseason'. There's plenty of opportunities to get better. I wasn't worried about him missing important events (if there is such a thing at that age).

 

Tom Brands and Mark Schwab both have kids that wrestle. They wrestle with dad at home on the couch. Both are adamant about their sons not starting too early. But again, all kids are different.

I get your point about more to life than wrestling- but for some wrestling is thier life. They (the kids) have sat on the sidelines watching the bigger stronger kids practice and play football, they have been regulated to left Field season after season due to thier hand eye coordination being below par and decided that wrestling is thier thing...

 

Part of the beauty of wrestling is that it provides a stage for those kids that aren't the fastest strongest or biggest to compete and excell. It is the common mans sport. Without it these kids would be marginalized...

 

As much as I need the schools to help me manage my kids thier "paternal" instincts are wrong here- the restriction on AAU AND USAW competition stymies the development of competitive wrestlers and I believe anyone that can afford to pull kids from middle school wrestling AND has the goal of helping thier wrestlers reach thier full potential will do a so...

 

We have all seen the parents that live through their kids and scream like lunatics at their children... I think they are the exception. I for one have used every single opportunity wrestling provides to lead and council my wrestlers and develope them into solid young men with sound problem solving skills- as I am sure anyone on this blog has done.

Edited February 7, 2014 by BlackknightGATA

[durdon]

Middle school wrestling is vital for ecosystem of wrestling in TN. The stronger and more vibrant our middle school wrestling is the stronger high school wrestling will be in TN. When you look at the state of TN wrestling we have some exceptional elite level wrestlers in both high school and youth club circuit, but once you get past those kids the drop off is steep and we have absolulty no depth at all.

Middle school wrestling is single best recruiting tool we have to bring new kids into the sport, and it's our best way to build depth.

The problem we have in wrestling is the same that every middle school sports and that is the competition from the club circuit. Volleyball,basketball, cross country, softball, baseball, etc they all have to deal with club ball. Over the past decade In every single sport the club circuits have taken over youth and high school sports in America. And, like it or not the club circuit is going to keep getting stronger and stronger.

The middle and high school sports that have tried to fight the club circuits have failed miserably... I started this thread as a commentary on what is happening in Hamilton county. Their middle school league is trying to fight the club circuit. They have changed their middle school season to compete directly with the club circuit and to keep their kids ouf of AAU state tourney. Unfortunately, the days of kids going through middle school league and then have any sort of success in high school without spending time some time on the club circuit are almost OVER. The kids on the club circuit are dramatically better than they were just 5 years ago and probably twice as good as they were a decade ago. Elite level 4th and 5th graders club kids can now run through most middle school league brackets and the gap is only going to get bigger.

 

Look I get it, it sucks these club kids are wrecking havoc on your middle school leagues and it just used to be couple of kids but now that club circuit has grown you are seeing a lot of these kids flood your leagues and the gap between them and your new middle schoolers is growing. I am sure that there are those that really resent these kids and the club circuit but by trying to force those kids out and to turn your leagues into a fun Upward/rec league you are going to destroy the pipeline that your high schools absolutely have to have. Mike is correct that the elite level kids he has been training that used to go to the different schools throughout the county are starting to leave Hamilton county. Right now it looks like 5 AAU state/national champion caliber kids are in the process of moving out of Hamiton county for next year, up to Bradley county where they embrace the club circuit in their middle schools.

The Hamilton county schools will never get those kids back once they move and that is going to a big blow to those schools in a few years.

 

I think that there is 2 ways that middle schools can embrace the club circuit which is to move your schedule to Nov and dec before the heart of the club season starts which is what a few of middle school leagues are starting to do. Or you can do what they do in Ga and Pa which is run their middle school season during the heart of the club circuit but they don't schedule any events during that will conflict with major club events and then they build in windows the days of major club events that allows kids to wrestle outside of their middle school league on those days and just those days much like it has now been done for high school basketball, baseball, and volleyball.

Edited February 9, 2014 by durdon

[rlwest40]

The NGAC in Georgia is in November and December and is over before Dixie Nationals. Wrestlers can go to USA preseason tournaments and get 20+ matches before MS season starts. Get another 20-30 matches during MS season and go back to wrestling USAW in time for Dixie, Tulsa, the Grind, Liberty, USA state, AAU nationals, etc. Minimum conflict. MS coaches encourage the kids to wrestle the club circuit because they see these guys wrecking everyone else.

[Sommers]

The NGAC in Georgia is in November and December and is over before Dixie Nationals. Wrestlers can go to USA preseason tournaments and get 20+ matches before MS season starts. Get another 20-30 matches during MS season and go back to wrestling USAW in time for Dixie, Tulsa, the Grind, Liberty, USA state, AAU nationals, etc. Minimum conflict. MS coaches encourage the kids to wrestle the club circuit because they see these guys wrecking everyone else.

...and many over the years have been perplexed over how Ga wrestling has continued to pull away from Tn, both in duals/tournaments but also colleges taking notice.

 

I'm impressed lately, however, with how many of our young bucks are being a toted around by devoted Tn parents and coaches. It's obviously a huge sacrifice, but will pay with decent HS coaching and continued off season competition/camps.

[Xander Zone]

Back in the day when I coached the little ones...I'd almost always despised going down to Ga or Ala. just for the simple fact that it used to be the wild wild west...but since then in a span of 10 years the club circuit has really cleaned it up and seriously become a major player in the sport...I've got an 11 yr old that has just started this year...He is Loving it...especially the club scene...He wants to get in 100 matches by the end of the summer...I'm the one telling him to calm down...but in all seriousness the tougher competition is on the club circuit....

Coach Varnell

[Sommers]

It's how many generations of wrestling now? Is it your dad that coached before Al Miller? It's in your blood for sure!

[Xander Zone]

No sir...I am a product of Al Miller though...and yes club and/or offseason is where the state champs are made...Coach Miller would drag everybody around willing/nonwilling to every practice and/or tournament he could find...but believe me it's all worth it...I'm just getting my feet wet again...off season tournys and camps basically mat time is where you get better...Club I see is fundamental for all levels of wrestling....

Coach Lee Varnell