A real state tournament

[Newestguy]

OK- up to 2 years ago the privates had a 16 man bracket, ( I took a sabbatical for a couple years from HS wrestling and it changed ) essentially everyone went. Didn't bother me any, I didn't see where it hurt anything to have more participants. Now only half go. Still a high percentage.

 

The cream usually rises to the top , hard to make the case where anyone's interests are harmed by staying with 32 in AAA.

 

The purists howled bloody murder when the NCAA expanded the B-ball tourney to 64+, we heard all the nonsense and rhetoric about diluting the talent and watering down the tournament  but what happened ?

 

Interest went exponential , that's what happened. I don't see anything wrong with having more schools represented and friends and family paying to watch them in wrestling too.

Comparing the NCAA with high school and basketball with wrestling?

 

Apparently you've taken a sabbatical sense wrestling moved to the cow palace. Doesn't seem like the increase in participants has exactly stirred your interest or pocket book.

[mat73557]

All of this just seems like a veiled attack on the Ag center.

[maj]

Comparing the NCAA with high school and basketball with wrestling?

 

Apparently you've taken a sabbatical sense wrestling moved to the cow palace. Doesn't seem like the increase in participants has exactly stirred your interest or pocket book.

 

I'm saying more people , more interest. You should be able to grasp that, The b-ball was a pretty simple analogy and a similar situation is shaping up in football. When they expand the playoffs, and they will, interest will go way up.

 

If the people complaining about the ag center want to move to a better location it will likely cost money. Connect a couple of dots here, more people participating , more people watching, more revenue in which to pay for one of the palatial venues many seem to desire. Seems easy enough to understand.

 

Personally I thought the ag center did a decent job this year. I liked UTC but got fed up with their treatment of the sport and was glad to see the event moved. They did not seem to want the event. I would think those clamoring to spend a bunch of money to move somewhere else would want as many participants and their families involved as possible. Dropping 224 participants and the family and friends who would pay to watch them could add up to a bunch of money.

 

I was at the first couple of cow palace wrestling events and again this year. I saw big improvements this year compared to the beginning.

 

" Sense " you brought it up, the increase in participants did stir my interest a bit and as for my pocket book while I'm not in the Jones category , I would wager a bundle, I've spent many more dollars supporting this sport than you.

[Sommers]

Here's plethora of situations, ideas, pro's & cons from Flo...

 

State Tournaments; How Many Classes Should There Be?



Joe Williamson:

Now that the state tournaments have begun and will continue to run for about another month, how many classes is appropriate for a state to have?

 

This argument has been on the blocks for a long time and I have heard valid points from both sides. If you look at a state like California, which only has one class, over 800 teams are competing for one set of all state honors. I hope to be present for California States this year as I have never seen it. Many have told me it is one of the most exciting high school tournaments in the country. It is a big deal to win the state meet in California. If you do, your name will surely be out in the open and you will probably be seen by many college coaches. The state has one true state champion, which is something that I really think is cool. However, how many good wrestlers are overlooked as they may have had an off tournament along the state series and be done early. The state association may also loose money as fewer wrestlers are competing which mean, less parents, less friends, fewer hotel rooms, etc.

On the flip side, I went back to my home state meet in Missouri a couple of years ago. Since I graduated high school, a fourth class has been added to the state of Missouri. When I watch the finals, there were multiple three time state champs wrestling at the same weight class at several weights. Many in the finals had won state in a previous year. There were many finalists that did not look impressive at all. It seemed hard to not be an all-state wrestler which to me takes some of the glory out of the picture. I saw some multiple time state champs get rocked at nationals by kids with way fewer credentials on paper. Other states also have four classes, in fact I used to give my old college roommate grief about his home state of Kansas because there was 4 classes and every other wrestler was a state champ. On the other hand, many wrestlers are given more of a chance to compete and get recognized. The stands are also full of family and friends for many sessions and days, hotel rooms are booked, and the state association is bringing in some healthy greenbacks.

 

I know that this topic has been under debate for a while now and has been under the gun in states like New York which has just recently gone to the 2 class system from one class. What are your thoughts on how many classes a state should have?

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catchindreams Feb 23, 2014

One true champion is a lot better because it is the TRUE CHAMPION. I think what California does is awesome and that is why they produce some of the best wrestlers. Yeah, more wrestlers get recognized when there are a lot more classes but some of them can't even compete at a national level because they are not good enough to but they are still good enough to win a state title? It makes the state look bad, in my opinion.

 

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jtcaprino Feb 23, 2009

If we want a "true" champion, why do we have weight classes? You are so enthralled with the "true champion" mindset that you really don't care about the future of the sport. Give some more kids a chance to perform on a big stage and you will increase the numbers at the schools that aren't used to the success.The whole thing about having a "true champion" does no good for the future of the sport.

 

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jtcaprino Feb 23, 2009

Luis,Does not having a "true" champion ruin DII or DIII or NAIA wrestling in college? Wrestling people are wrestling's worst enemy and we will continue to kill the sport at all levels with the thinking that without a "true" champion something is wrong.

 

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jtcaprino Feb 18, 2009

Indiana has one class. In the past 11 years schools in the upper half of enrollment have had 75% of the state qualifiers, while the smaller half has had 25%. As a fan the state finals are amazing, but as a coach and someone that wants to see the sport live another 200 years, class wrestling is the way to go. Give more kids an opportunity to be showcased and have a chance for college coaches at all levels see them.The purpose of high school athletics is NOT to have "one true champion."

 

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jtcaprino Feb 18, 2009

Wrestling fans are sometimes the sport's worst enemy. One class is great, but if you want promotion of the sport to its highest potential each state should have 2 or 3 classes. Wrestling at the small school level in Indiana is dying right now and with the economy the way it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few small school teams disappear. If just a few more kids can call themselves state qualifiers and state placers then it will help promote the sport at schools where wrestling isn't traditionally strong.

 

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Burton135 Feb 15, 2009

Wrestling isn't about the money.No question.Leave it at one class.One true Champion.

 

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ljt1219 Feb 15, 2009

The idea of there being only one State Champ like CA is ideal. It celebrates the best of the best. If you know anything about high school wrestling and you meet a CA high school state champion you know you are talking to a great wrestler. I wrestled in CO and in AZ. Both states had 4 classes. I felt it showed the best talent for small and big schools. Recently AZ has gone to 6 classes. It includes 1a & 2a, 3a, 4a1, 4a2, 5a1 & 5a2. Several of my former teammates and I have gone and watched state the last 3 years since they have added the 2 classes. It is completely watered down and makes AZ look weak nationally! The best way to spilt up small, medium and big schools is have 3 classes with the top 6 recieving medals. This will give you the best idea of what kind of talent you have in your state. If you wanted to do a tournament of champions, you could take those 18 top wrestlers put em into a 16 man bracket with the #1 and #2 seeds recieving buys. Let em wrestle it and you will have your true state champ!

 

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wrastler150 Feb 13, 2009

Actually they are called a 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A or 6A state champ, not just state champ, at least in our state. And being a one class champ has no guarantee that you are simply the best. I remember last year, when OR's probably 4th best HWT in our state pinned the CA state champ. The OR kid was a 4A runner up and was never a champ.

 

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wrastler150 Feb 13, 2009

The great matchups are missed because the kids usually meet up at one time or another. Or like most of the top programs do, they have their kids wrestle freestyle(like all coaches should be doing in our state) and they meet up then.I have yet to meet a kid who whines about the multiple class champion. Usually, its their coaches or parents who instill those ideas. However, when they bring home a state title, they sure don't seem to be complaining about anything. They all have smiles on their faces when they are handed the trophy.We need to remember who is wrestling these matches. Its not the adults.Like I said, all those other sports don't have one state title. We need to get out of the stone ages and get with the times. If we want our sport to grow, multiple classes are the way to go. Getting more kids interested will only help us, not hurt us. Why do you think sports like football and b-ball have so many fans? Its because they have some many people involved in the sports because of the multi-class system they've had for decades.Go to a one class system for everyone and you'd see hundreds of programs being dropped all over at the HS ranks.

 

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jarnone165 Feb 13, 2009

The PA two class system works great. AAA has more depth than AA, just because of the numbers. Other than that the 2 class system works great and should be left alone, in PA at least. I think other states should give it a go.

 

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ironman135 Feb 13, 2009

I would like to agree with the "One State Champion" statement sounds great, but there are so many other things that go into this matter. I do believe that size of schools plays big into this matter. If you are at a school (500 kids or less), then you run into the fact that most coaches must share the kids with other sports, and they do it for the better of the school. So if you have a young wrestler, and they are able to help another team. Then you allow them to play another sport. This would not be an issue at a bigger school (3A and above), because they do not have to share their kids. They do not have to worry about if there will be enough kids to play baseball, run track for the school. At 1A school, you have to worry about those things. If your wrestler does not have the chance to focus just wrestling because they must try and improve in other sports. Then they will have an even harder time beating a kid that comes from a bigger school that has to worry about only wrestling. This fact can not be lost, it is the way of small schools. Money is also a factor in this as well, 1A school is not going to put in the same amount of money into a wrestling program as bigger school would. There are sometimes just one coach for a whole team wrestling in a 1A school, where a bigger school would get more coaches. I believe that the Classes (1A to 5A) are good, but they could be better used. We should the kids that finish 1st in each of these classes wrestle off for then a true state championship. This would allow the best kids to wrestle off for a state title. We wouldn't have to worry about classes then because the best of classes would be represented. This would allow these kids to say that were the 1A Champion, but would not mean that they were the "State Champion". Then the winner of the 4 man bracket would get to call themselves the "State Champion". I think that this is a great topic, with a lot of good insight. thanks

 

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Chris412 Feb 12, 2009

In Nevada, during the late 90s, they had the All-State tournament. They had individual 8man A and AA state tournaments and the top 2 or 3 got to go on to the all-state tournament in which there were 16-man brackets with 5 or 6 wrestlers from each north and south zone. It was a way to determine the undisputed state champion, but it was too expensive. I don't think there ever was a non-AAA all-state champion.It seems like every year they have a new format for the state tournament due to budget issues.

 

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buffett Feb 12, 2009

Wrestling is an individual sport and there should only be ONE individual crowned as "State Champion". The cream should be allowed to rise to the top. This way, even if you didn't meet your goals and made the podium...its an achievement.

 

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wrastler150 Feb 12, 2009

Oregon has 5 classes now, but should've kept it at three. Three was plenty. However, we have to live with five now. What its done is made other in season tournament, much more exciting because you have a lot of interesting matchups and the best always find a way to meet up. It hasn't done anything to diminish the quality wrestlers in our state.What its done is increased numbers and increased our fan base. Our state tournament went from about 5000 fans to 9200 when they added the 2 additional classes.Now for all those people who think having one state title is the only way to go, does football, basketball, baseball, track, soccer, softball or volleyball have one state champion? Nope.People need to get out of the stone ages and get with the times. We need to increase our numbers and our fan base in order to keep our sport strong.

 

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markbader Feb 12, 2009

100 posts in a day, dang Joe. I'm number 100!!!

 

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crock Feb 12, 2009

way to go joe flo, get the age old debate going. Why not bring up religion and politics on the forum. Just kidding. I think that it is ok to have multiple state tournaments, but it should depend on the number of schools competing. Missouri does not need four classes, two at most. you are definitely right about seeing some kids medal in some classes that don't belong on the podium.

 

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jacobpence Feb 12, 2009

Oregon has 6. Way too many! that means 6 state champs at every weight class, and 50 overall placers in every weight class.

 

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Kway Feb 12, 2009

That's what I am talking about. If our eighth graders hear that they will be on a team that has state grade wrestlers then they will want to be part of the team.I don't want to water down wrestling. I want there to be a wrestling program around when my son get's into high school. Our school board looks at cost here in ca. and how many $ per student is spent. More kids on the team the more bang for the buck. Here in Ca. it's tough basket ball is king. and your looked at like your stilling their talent. we need help selling our sport.great topic, we need to build the sport.... We dig flo, Etna wrestling

 

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tjohns13 Feb 12, 2009

There should only be 1.. anything more then one and it is impossible to call yourself the "State Champion" you would be more of a group or division champion.. Thats why I love New Jersey, we keep it simple. Everything before districts is about the team, after that it is every man for himself and we crown 1 state champion for each weight. Where i come from (Region 6 NJ) there are kids who could place in the state tournament top 8 but cant get top 3 in our region to even qualify for the state tournament. Yes it is frustrating to be at that high of a level and not be able to push through to the state tourny cause your region is so loaded but it is what prepares these kids for the future, You have to be able to deal with defeat and a let down in wrestling as well as life. I think the more a state adds classes the more it takes away from the luster of their state champions/state placers.

 

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daheat Feb 12, 2009

Joe you are really right on the classes issue. I am a Head Coach now in Nebraska and the Class B and schools or I should say some of the class B and C schools are better than Class A which is big schools. I can see having 2 classes. My home state of Indiana has no classes and a true state champion. Guys like Angel Escobedo (Indiana) and Alex Tsirtis (Iowa) both where some pretty tough 4X state champs... They had a tough road doing it. I was there their Senior year and Angel had a dogfight in the finals and was close to loosing the match. Coaching at MBU I went to some of the state matches in MIssouri and your right some state champs that was crowned was not impressive at all. But I can see it in a money since. Indiana always packs the Conseco Fieldhouse which is a very large stadium. Most states should be able to come close in packing theirs for a state tournament.

 

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bigdps2 Feb 11, 2009

I live, coach, and wrestled in Michigan. A state with four classes at the state tourney, and I feel that there should only be one. It takes away from the title "state champion" when there are 3 other kids at the same weight with the same title for that year. Also as far as recruiting for colleges go. A state title from Michigan does not mean nearly as much as one from Ohio just for the simple fact that Ohio only has one class. It would only take one extra week to narrow it down to one class so why not do it. No other tournament has 4 first places. Why should states?

 

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CoryJCHall Feb 11, 2009

My High School days were spent in Maryland, yet I have wrestled and coached in California and am currently coaching in Illinois, where they have made a very lame attempt at a three class system. After viewing the different state systems I realize that I do favor the Maryland system. Which is a two state public school system which separates the big schools from the smaller schools and the private schools have their own state tourney as well.Then at the end of the year they have an all-star classic which pits the highest placing senior in each weight class against each other while keeping a team score for each.While it is nice to have only one true individual state champ, the real pitfall of a one class or a mixed class system is that private and public schools really play by different sets of rules when it comes to the TEAM aspect of the sport.As everyone knows you are only as good as your practice partners and nobody becomes a state champion alone.

 

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Martino Feb 11, 2009

I used to be a huge proponent of a 1 class system. Very pure and simple. However just because it sounds better and is more marketable doesnt mean it is the best thing for the sport. Believe me I have no doubt that the state finals for California is a really cool atmosphere but every year a ton of talent will never be found by college coaches across the nation. What happens next?The lost talent doesnt think they are good enough to wrestle in college because afterall they didnt place or even make it to state. (If you even make it to state in CA you could potentially be a state champ in a ton of other states)The state has fewer and fewer college wrestlers coming back to coach kids in high school.If a state like California has more than one state tournament it will have more community participation and awareness. With more communities involved and aware you wont have places like Fresno State dropping wrestling.Just some unpopular opinions/thoughts for yall to digest.I say Illinois should go back to 2, Missouri should retract at least to 2, PA/NJ/OH stay the same but California NEEDS to expand.

 

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milktruck361 Feb 11, 2009

I think that other states should adopt Texas' State Championship method. First you have to win your district to qualify for regionals and (for example in Texas) the top 4 kids from each region make it to the state tournament which has 16 man brackets. This way the tournament has all the top kids in the state and there is still one true State Champion. Any other state can change this up to have more kids qualify for the tournament by letting the top 8 kids come out of each region and have a larger more exciting 32 man bracket.

 

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bigman13 Feb 11, 2009

agree with the dude below me

 

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jbryant12 Feb 11, 2009

All the arguments for one state championship are completely valid and compelling, but remember, not everyone wrestles year round. I've seen kids cry their eyes out after winning a Single A, AA and AAA state title. Do we want to take those memories away? Think about wrestling when you came up. If there was one state championship (excluding those here in Indiana, California and New Jersey), would many of our qualifiers gotten a chance to even be noticed by colleges and continue their careers.Just playing the other side here. If there's one state tournament, participation in the smaller divisions (where resources and coaching are no where near on par with the "powers") could wane. Not everyone possesses the wrestling mentality that they can beat anyone. There is a reality to it. My goal wasn't to win a state championship, my goal was simply break the line-up.I refer back to my Virginia analogy. In Single A, there are maybe 1-2 kids a year who could place highly at the AAA level. Probably a few more at the AA level. If there's one tournament, all those Single A and AA regions align where the big schools are. So just "getting" to states becomes even more difficult. I'm not saying "everyone should get a medal" or pushing the "no losers" wussification of America -- but when you're at a school and you are surrounded by better coaching, better facilities and better support and you have an assistant coach who never wrestled ... where's the incentive to wrestle all year and then have the big school soak up everything?Yes, I love the Hoosiers situation where the kid from a tiny school goes out and beats the big boys, but let's face reality -- it could really hinder participation and that's what we DON'T need. We need more kids wrestling. We need more wrestlers going to college. We need more wrestlers coming back and coaching high schools so eventually, those "little schools" with the bad coaching start getting seasoned coaches. Some places, there just isn't an even playing field.Personally, I would prefer just one state champion in Virginia ... but you'd see participation at the Single A level drop significantly ... entire programs would just stop competing because they couldn't get to compete with schools and athletes of comparable status.Great discussion ... Joe, good topic.

 

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workmad Feb 11, 2009

We must remember that although it should all be for the wrestler. The fact is that if your wrestling program can't make money or in fact loses money. How long will there be a program at all? Therefore, the reality of it all is that a state(or school system) must do what it needs to have a funded program. I would like to see individual state champions. However, I think that having multiple state champions doesn't hurt the good wrestlers because there are many venues to prove yourself the best (ie... nationals, greco, and freestyle). So I support whatever is best for the growth of the sport.

 

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neillybob Feb 11, 2009

I think that there should be multiple classes within certain states. In Oklahoma, there are four classes allowing for 56 different individual state champions and four team state champions. Class 3A is the smallest class, while class 6A is the largest. Each class is made up of schools that are of equal, or near equal enrollment. Each class has 32 teams and two regional tournaments. The top four wrestlers from each region will move on to the state tournament. Some teams debate whether or not they should be in one class and not another. To solve this problem, the teams that are 'on the bubble' are shuffled around every other year. Oklahoma is unique in that throughout the season, you can see a multitude of different teams from different classes at any given tournament. To compete and beat the best in Oklahoma is a great thing, but in my opinion, to have this happen at the state tournament would be rediculous. There have only been 19 four time state champions, with three potential four-timers coming through this year. Can you say that Oklahoma wrestling is less productive at the college-level because we have four different classes? I don't think so. Just ask John Smith (Oklahom State head coach) and Jack Spates (Oklahoma head coach). I'm pretty sure that they would tell you that some of their best wrestlers have come from Oklahoma.

 

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bigman13 Feb 11, 2009

there should only one division. Cali and Jerz got it right. imagine ohio and pa with only one champ at each weight. a good example of how tough a weight in ohio is: jamie clark, david taylor, logan stieber, sam white, jerome robinson, james inghram all would be fightin for 1 state title not 3

 

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Kway Feb 11, 2009

I am in northern Ca.and we wrestle Oregon allot, 4 classes. we have always talked about this very subject. Here's are solution, Have a champion of champions tournament at the end or later. Several classes give the smaller schools a chance to have some glory and build a stronger program while at the end we know who is the top dog. Are program is 15 years old and only this year do we have a couple of wrestlers who just might make it to state. Top 3 wrestlers in the north section can compete at state.

 

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jbryant12 Feb 11, 2009

Obviously each state has its own pitfalls when it comes to deciding how many classes there should be. I'm from Virginia, where we had three public school classes and one private school class. Unlike Ohio, our private schools weren't like St. Edward or Massillon Perry, but more "preppish" schools where lacrosse and soccer were king. Some in the area were trying to be like Oak Hill, bringing in monster roundball recruits to virtually unheard of schools like Ryan Academy, for example.In wrestling, the AAA class has typically been the deepest, but in AA, the field seems to be dominated by more "all-around athletes" than wrestling-only athletes you see in AAA. In Virginia, anything in the top third of enrollment (generally over 1,100 in grades 10-12) goes AAA. Some schools teeter back and forth as new ones are built.In AA, Grundy and Christiansburg dominated the 90's and the current decade. My alma mater, Poquoson, has won nine state team championships, the last coming in 1999 in AA. In 1997, Western Branch upended Great Bridge -- those two schools are in the same district. We beat Great Bridge at the Virginia Duals, they won the district and region over Western Branch, then the Bruins won states a week later.Where the need for the three-class system (public) in Virginia is primarily the rural areas and the old mining corridor down Interstate 81 (81 runs in VA from Winchester to Bristol). A lot of those small Single A schools don't have much in terms of wrestling facilities, travel benefits and the athletes are typically three-or-four sport athletes. It's rare for a wrestling-specific athlete to emerge from Single A. The only Single A wrestler to ever qualify for the Division I NCAA Tournament (To my knowledge) was former JMU heavyweight D.J. Hockman, who went to Strasburg.The depth in AAA is better, with 1-6 favoring AAA most of the time. There are exceptions, where teams like Grundy, Christiansburg, Turner Ashby, and Poquoson have put out buckets of studs who would have won AAA or beaten high placers.What I'm getting to with the Single A is that participation would virtually be down to nothing if a kid from a high school of 200 kids with a coach who might be an assistant football coach learning out of a book and no wrestling club within 150 miles has to wrestle a stud from Colonial Forge, one of the powers in AAA.Looking at the talent level in Single A, only 50 of the 100 schools have wrestling, primarily because those districts are so geographically diverse. Virginia's a strange state, with only four main population centers -- Richmond, Hampton Roads, Northern Va (which comprises the better part of two AAA regions) and the Roanoke Valley, which is primarily AA.Suburban sprawl in the Northern Virginia area has created nearly a dozen more high schools of AA size, strengthening the potential pool from Region II in AA.The three-class system in Virginia keeps participation up. There are a few Single A schools that could compete with the AA's (but not the Grundy/Poquoson/Christiansburg dynamic) every year. Brentsville District moved up to AA and has done well enough, while a school like Virginia High in Bristol moved down to Single A and their performance hasn't really been affected. Nandua came up to AA my senior year, they had a returning Single A runner-up go 1-2 at the AA states. The next year he made the state finals, losing to Grundy's Jimmy Griffey.Point is, in some places, it's not always about revenue, it's about participation. If a wrestler from rural Eastern Montgomery High School was a state placewinner in Single A, it was a sense of pride for the town, tiny Shawsville, just south of Blacksburg. But would a kid placing fifth even get to states in AA? Out of Region III? Tough to say.I personally don't mind the three systems in a state like Virginia, but others, there is obvious dilution of talent. AAA state champs are typically year-round wrestlers. AA champs are a mix of year-round wrestlers or great athletes who took to wrestling between seasons. Single A champs are almost never year-round wrestlers and know a few holds and moves and get by with grit and guts. That tournament is by far the most fun to watch because of all the craziness that goes on at the Salem Civic Center (with AA right beside it), but the depth is much weaker. Kids with under-.500 record placing ... eh, not so much.When Virginia went to placing the top eight from the top six in 16-man brackets, then I had a bit of an issue. If you make the second day, you place. I don't like that. At least with the top six, you still had to fight that one match on Saturday morning after making weight to grab a medal. When half the field places, it diminishes the value.Personally, it's up to the quality of the competition and the heritage and pride within that state to decide.

 

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Martino Feb 11, 2009

I dont think the California State tournament is healthy for wrestling in California. Its too big. A lot of great talent develop in their early years in college. No way for college coaches to find those kids in Cali. Those same kids dont go back to high schools in the state to coach wrestling.Missouri system is too diluted. Pennsylvania (2 classes) is great mixture. I like NJ (1 class) and Ohio (3 classes) too. Bear in mind those states are heavy duty into wrestling too. I dont think states like Texas (1 class) or Wisconsin should have more than 1.

 

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markbader Feb 11, 2009

There used to be 3 classes in Missouri but there are now 4, with 16 wrestlers and 6 placers for each weight in each class division. I personally think it would be awesome if you made it 2 classes with 32 state qualifiers and top 8 take home a medal, this way you still have the same number of state qualifiers but being a state placer and state champ would mean a lot more. What do you think?

 

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spartansd Feb 11, 2009

I agree that the Duals Champ should be by class.Then the individual should be one chart for all. Now that would be sweet.But I also could groove on a mixed idea. Take all 4 classes in MI down to the final 8 (ALL-State cut I believe). Then have a 32 man tournament the next weekend. Now that would be sweet. Or have a champions tournament the next weekend. All 4 champs from each division. Could be a sweet.

 

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John88 Feb 11, 2009

Creating more classes for increased revenues is a sleazy way to raise funds. I think 40 wrestlers compete in each weight class in the CA state tournament. The tourny is three days. That's a lot of exposure for many wrestlers. Scouters know how tough the CA state tourny is, and I'm sure they don't only attend the last day to scout for only the very best wrestlers. With more than one class there are always those nagging feelings of not knowing who the best is and that some don't deserve the amount recognition they get. People just need to recognize that wrestlers at the state championships with fewer classes would have placed higher if there simply were more classes. Big deal. I rest my case.

 

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Coach-T Feb 11, 2009

Colorado has 4 divisions. A unified state Champion would have more credibility to the state title. But Colorado does have a lot of small rural communities. The Colorado 4 divisions are 2A, 3A, 4A, 5A.5A being the biggest schools. Most people would argue that 4A being the toughest with the most depth. There is always an exception to the rule we have kids from the smaller 2A divisions that would win in any division but overall the 2A are most often rural and have much fewer opportunities to wrestle the better kids. They have a much smaller pool to draw kids from and overall have much fewer resources.I am sure that you have all heard of Steamboat Springs known for its skiing and a lot of Olympics hopeful train there. Steamboat is in the 4A division but last I heard only had a total of six kids on the entire team. One point that I think few would argue is the need for good partners without them its hard for anyone to grow.I am not a believer of this fuzzy fuzzy world people want to believe in. If thats the world you want to live in go play basketball. But one could argue that all kids should have the same opportunity to be a state champion. With the 4 divisions it does level the playing fields a little. You cant just look at one sport when youre looking at this you have to look at all sports.Take for example some schools play football with 8 man teams. How could you expect a team that plays with 8 men on the field compete with a team like Cherry Creek that has John Elway coaching the quarterbacks. And can fly across the country compared with the 8 man team that can barely afford the gas to travel to a neighboring school.I got a little of subject, but trying to show there really is two sides to this discussion.

 

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discman Feb 11, 2009

Now that the state tournaments have begun and will continue to run for about another month, how many classes is appropriate for a state to have?This argument has been on the blocks for a long time and I have heard valid points from both sides. If you look at a state like California, which only has one class, over 800 teams are competing for one set of all state honors. I hope to be present for California States this year as I have never seen it. Many have told me it is one of the most exciting high school tournaments in the country. It is a big deal to win the state meet in California. If you do, your name will surely be out in the open and you will probably be seen by many college coaches. The state has one true state champion, which is something that I really think is cool. However, how many good wrestlers are overlooked as they may have had an off tournament along the state series and be done early. The state association may also loose money as fewer wrestlers are competing which mean, less parents, less friends, fewer hotel rooms, etc.On the flip side, I went back to my home state meet in Missouri a couple of years ago. Since I graduated high school, a fourth class has been added to the state of Missouri. When I watch the finals, there were multiple three time state champs wrestling at the same weight class at several weights. Many in the finals had won state in a previous year. There were many finalists that did not look impressive at all. It seemed hard to not be an all-state wrestler which to me takes some of the glory out of the picture. I saw some multiple time state champs get rocked at nationals by kids with way fewer credentials on paper. Other states also have four classes, in fact I used to give my old college roommate grief about his home state of Kansas because there was 4 classes and every other wrestler was a state champ. On the other hand, many wrestlers are given more of a chance to compete and get recognized. The stands are also full of family and friends for many sessions and days, hotel rooms are booked, and the state association is bringing in some healthy greenbacks.I know that this topic has been under debate for a while now and has been under the gun in states like New York which has just recently gone to the 2 class system from one class. What are your thoughts on how many classes a state should have?

[BlackknightGATA]

I think the tournament has gotten better and better at the Ag Center. I haven't heard one kid complain about the venue Except for the fact that there is not a good warm up area. In Iowa and PA, people bring their families to watch the tournament because they have been involved in wrestling all their lives. Average Tennessean could care less about going to see wrestling. Until that changes, we can't compare ourselves to big wrestling states.

I agree... That attitude about wrestling is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is TSSAA doesn't give a tinkers dam what any advocate, parent or coach thinks. The only person in this state that gets thier attention in a meaningful way is the GOVERNOR. This issue has been brought to TSSAA over and over. They had thier chance to address it and have not done so. Petition and lobby the Governor it's the logical next step.

 

I don't have an alternative location in mind but I agree with wrestlers wrestling over horse dung there is no way infectious bacteria can't be comming into contact with skin.

 

And on the subject of kids being denied access to the tournament; I am personally aware of multiple kids denied by an EMT/NURSE who claimed any skin infection is infectious - Both had notes/skin forms from medical doctors certifying treatment and both were not allowed to wrestle.

 

On one hand TSSAA puts on a show of being hyper senstive and concerned about infections and on the other they have the kids wrestle over a bacteria laden cow/horse/livestock barn- really?

 

You can't have it both ways - everybody has a boss

[Bump11]

Pa has only 2 divisions and both tournaments are 16 man brackets, and they have 6x the number of programs in their state. Their district 3rd placers, who don't qualify for even the next qualifier, could beat most of our state champs. Point being, if you are saying good kids are left home then your assessment of good is quiet liberal; I don't care what region you are in, in Tennessee, if you don't place in the region then you are not very good. 16 is all we had in the 80's when there was only one division, and only 4 places.

why can't we have something like this? Cut down to 4 regions, make 4 districts in each. Top 2 in each district go to regions. So 4 region tournaments, each with 8 kids per weight, and then the top 4 from each region go to state making a 16 man state bracket and then seed it legitimately.

[seahawk8]

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/preps/story/2015/feb/15/tssaas-reeves-says-state-event-stay-franklin/288428/

Reeves said a whole lot of nothing in regards to improving anything.  That whole article could have been summed up with him saying. "that's something we are going to talk about"  talk talk talk.

[ccleveland]

Here is a petiton on change.org about the state tournament. Lets try to get the ball rolling any way we can. 

 

 

https://www.change.org/p/tssaa-change-location-of-tennessee-state-wrestling-tournaments?recruiter=41252677&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

Edited February 24, 2015 by ccleveland

[ccleveland]

Already have over 500 signatures in less than 24 hours.

 

https://www.change.org/p/tssaa-change-location-of-tennessee-state-wrestling-tournaments?recruiter=41252677&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

[TD2]

Cody,

 

Thank you for doing this however you may want to continue down the path Reichel was on....trying to justify it by other reasons other just lobbying to get it back in Chattanooga.  Believe me I know where your heart is and what you're trying to do.  I think people have "high jacketed"  your intentions for their own motivation.  I saw where Jackie __________  (want name her, we know her as a wrestling person and was married to a UTC wrestler) signed on poll and she has never even been to the "cow palace" .  She obviously got a phone call or e-mail to being it back to Chattanooga. 

 

If that is the agenda, I think you ought to be transparent about it.   Reality is that the best place in the state would be at the pyramid (Memphis) where the Grizzlies play,  Bridgestone (Where the preds play) or the Pat head Summit center where the VOLS play. 

 

Below is another self serving attitude that is being portrayed my the Chattanooga contingent.  Again,  I to think it should be moved and Ben was on the right path.....just make it look a little less biased towards Chatt.  One idiot even stateted that it needed to be moved because Chattanooga was so much stronger then the other areas.  He obviously did not attend the tournament this year.  In DII (chatts strong hold)  they only had one finalist before the 138# weight class.  see below.

 

Andrew Roberts NORCROSS, GA

• about 19 hours ago
• Liked 0

TSSAA it's 2015 so step it up and get this tournament back to Chattanooga where it belongs. This little stunt you tried in Franklin hasn't worked the way you imagined, it's clear that Southeastern Tennessee schools, both public and private, big and small, still dominate the tournament every year.

Now, do us all a service and get this, what could be special event, back in Chattanooga or al least Nashville proper ASAP.

P.S. And don't give me the economics excuse, it's tired and we're sick of hearing it. Get creative, update your website, and raise some capital.

Cheers,

Drew Roberts

[TD2]

PS:  When we say that kids weren't able to compete at the State tournament because of "skin diseases"  you need to look at McCallie, CBHS, Overton, WC, etc, etc.  regional sites)  Most of the ones that Ben oulined were from Chattanooga, so my guess is that those kids are getting it in Chattanooga at their regional tournament and affecting the rest of the state.  I know the 160#  stae champ broke out with severe Hereps 1 day after the state tournament.  As most of us know, it takes 5 - 10 days to inquebate.  It must have come from Chattanooga based on the theory that you all are giving.

 

There were "NO" kids....I repaeat "NO" kids that did not get to wrestle in the State tournament because they caught a skin infecton during THE STATE tournament.  They came from somewhere else at least 5 days before.  This really makes our wrestling community look illiterate.

[TheManOnTop]

PS: When we say that kids weren't able to compete at the State tournament because of "skin diseases" you need to look at McCallie, CBHS, Overton, WC, etc, etc. regional sites) Most of the ones that Ben oulined were from Chattanooga, so my guess is that those kids are getting it in Chattanooga at their regional tournament and affecting the rest of the state. I know the 160# stae champ broke out with severe Hereps 1 day after the state tournament. As most of us know, it takes 5 - 10 days to inquebate. It must have come from Chattanooga based on the theory that you all are giving.

 

There were "NO" kids....I repaeat "NO" kids that did not get to wrestle in the State tournament because they caught a skin infecton during THE STATE tournament. They came from somewhere else at least 5 days before. This really makes our wrestling community look illiterate.

State Duals is more than 5 days before.