Girls and Boys playing in the Spring

[Big Poppa 17]

I would ask, just how many kids are we talking about?  How many teams are in that premier league of travel or whatever it is called? Or is it one of those deals where a few kids from an area with a lot of money and influence are being affected and they are trying to get the rules changed for them?

[Playerscoach]

I would ask, just how many kids are we talking about? How many teams are in that premier league of travel or whatever it is called? Or is it one of those deals where a few kids from an area with a lot of money and influence are being affected and they are trying to get the rules changed for them?

I think that's a great question. Who's exactly behind this? I hadn't heard anything about the ECNL deal until a friend mentioned it.

[EnsworthSoccer]

I don't think anyone knows the numbers for sure, if the independent game participation rule is abandoned. If that happens, it becomes very murky. Right now, only RPL and ODP have an exemption. That could be quantified with some certainty if someone had a bit of time. Throw out the independent game participation rule, and I imagine a lot of club teams will try to jump in, even those from clubs that have RPL teams (the non-RPL teams at those clubs). A lot of small clubs might make the effort to jump in. 

 

I have no problem with the kids being asked to make a choice. I think if does happen in Tennessee, history shows (in states with the DA) that it will come from the clubs. It makes so much more sense for the clubs to dictate an "us-or-them" policy than the schools. I mentioned in an email with some other high school coaches that in North Carolina there are four DA clubs that have mandated DA and no high school (really a USSF mandate nationally). That's about 200 boys not playing high school soccer in the fall. And from my colleagues back home, high school soccer is doing just fine. 

 

At the end of the day, what is best for the kids? And I wonder if all of us adults, with our various perspectives, really have a sense of that. For me, a kid getting injured because two adults see their interests as competing and not cooperative is the worst of all outcomes. We had 4 girls play in Florida over the Labor Day weekend, and you would have thought I was Grandma Jones (no disrespect to any Jones family members out there) the way I babied them afterward. "How are your legs?" "On a scale of 1-10, how sore are you?" etc., etc., with the selfish hope that they would reply "Great" and "10". They mainly just rolled their eyes at me. Go figure.

Edited September 16, 2015 by EnsworthSoccer

[BigG]

 

 

At the end of the day, what is best for the kids? And I wonder if all of us adults, with our various perspectives, really have a sense of that. For me, a kid getting injured because two adults see their interests as competing and not cooperative is the worst of all outcomes. We had 4 girls play in Florida over the Labor Day weekend, and you would have thought I was Grandma Jones (no disrespect to any Jones family members out there) the way I babied them afterward. "How are your legs?" "On a scale of 1-10, how sore are you?" etc., etc., with the selfish hope that they would reply "Great" and "10". They mainly just rolled their eyes at me. Go figure.

Ha ha!  That is the EXACT conversation I had with my players!  Man, we are WAY too much alike!

[Playerscoach]

Ha ha! That is the EXACT conversation I had with my players! Man, we are WAY too much alike!

Well since I'm familiar with two (actually three if you count little KWs) of CPAs players and one of Ensworths I can assure you Brandy took care of them Labor Day weekend. 😀😀 However, Kylie does not know how to coddle them and is brutal at times if you ask the girls. Lol

 

I'm still not aware of who is pushing for this change in soccer. I spoke with a 25 year TSSAA higher up and in his opinion they'd never put both sports in the Spring nor would they change the independent game rule. He opined that the reason was because of the potential harm it would have with AAU basketball having kids play way too many games during the basketball season. I'll try to see him again soon and hopefully figure out where this is coming from.

 

A side affect to this is that with these increased number of games it leaks into basketball season. Our schools policy is so punitive that for each game missed the player has to sit four games. If my daughter plays in the proposed travel games she will sit 16 games plus the four she missed. It almost forces her to quit basketball and she's played it as long as she's played soccer.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Playerscoach

[trebs]

....

 

I think this is a reaction brought on by a select few. This smells like HS coaches afraid of losing a star player to travel or a private school afraid of losing all their players to travel.

I believe ballbasher30 is correct here.  Who are the most likely candidates?

[ballbasher30]

I beg to differ that the other what if scenarios are all that different.

 

what is the difference in a football player who graduates high school in december to be an early enrollee in college? they are leaving their high school to get better competition for spring football at college while leaving behind other high school opportunities.

 

What is the difference in a kid who leaves their high school in basketball to play at a national power like Oak Hill Academy or some of the florida schools to play better competition than their high school offers?

 

To me it is the same as saying to a soccer player, if you find better competition and want to play go ahead and play, we won't stop you. Dont let your high school coach hold you back. we say it is ok and think it is wonderful in the above scenarios for other sports, why not soccer.

 

Why do people feel they need to change everything to be like someone else all the time, just because it works for other states, we assume we need to do it.

 

high school soccer provides an opportunity for girls and boys to play a game they love with people they go to school with and in some cases grew up with. it is going to be different at public schools especially because they are not super teams who can pick and choose their players.

 

all i am saying is dont change anything just to be like everyone else. if great players want to leave and play elsewhere, let them and i hope they do wonderfully if they go, but dont penalize the other kids who choose to stay for their sake.

[AlcoaDad]

I just became aware of this issue a few days ago and I am going to throw in my 2 cents. I see both sides of this argument and my bottom line is what is best for the kids. One poster said it was easy to work this out as to field usage, just play boys away and girls at home and vice versa. I guess that works great if you have a big school and have separate coaching staffs. We don't. Our boys head coach is our girls head coach. Our assistants are basically the same (me and to other gentleman) for each sport. This is common across the state in smaller schools.

 

I would also imagine that the middle school girls that play in the fall would also move to the Spring. That would put 4 teams using our one soccer field. We have a dedicated soccer field and it is in good shape and well taken care of by our school system, but 4 teams trying to use it would beat it up badly. We also have lights and most schools our size do not (some barley have fields). It gets darker earlier and that would be an issue as well. 

 

I have heard that one reason to make this change is that girls would have more choice and be able to play in these special soccer leagues. In reality, it gives a select few girls more choice and limits the choice of a much greater number. In many of the smaller schools the fall soccer girls trade one sport for another and play softball in the spring. This proposal forces girls to pick which Spring sport they play, soccer or softball. I would think some schools would have to abolish one of the sports if they both play in the Spring. I am not sure how that type situation is best for the kids. I have even heard rumblings of lawsuits to give the select few girls the choice of playing in these other leagues as a reason for the possible move of girls soccer to the Spring. 

 

I also believe that some girls would be forced to make a choice between basketball and soccer. There is a significant overlap between the end of the basketball season and the start of allowed winter conditioning. The basketball girls are in shape, but it is basketball shape, not soccer shape and those two are very different things. I think injuries would increase in players that try to do both because of lack of training time due to season overlap. 

 

A number of girls sports would be hurt by this proposed move and that in turn hurts the kids. The good of the most should be considered over the few. Unfortunately I believe the few will get what they want over the best interest of the many.

 

If the switch happens, I will keep trotting out and working with my keepers and help them to be the best they can be as will other coaches across the state. I just hope that all the issues are really considered so the true best solution happens for all the girls.  

 

I just wish I knew what that solution is. 

 

 

[AlcoaDad]

 

I think this is a reaction brought on by a select few. This smells like HS coaches afraid of losing a star player to travel or a private school afraid of losing all their players to travel.

 

I really disagree with this thought. I am sure there may be a VERY, VERY, VERY small number that feel as you propose, but that is so much the exception, not the rule.

 

I know a number of big school coaches and private school powerhouse coaches and to a person, they care much more about the players then they do about wins and loses. You spend a great deal of time with these young people and you grow to love and care about them as people, not as a potential wins or lose. I don't see how a person could spend all the time we do with these kids and not care more about them then we care about a teams record. I want to win, all the coaches I know what to win. At the same time teaching young people life lessons and using sports to do this matters as well. It is exciting to win, but it is just as exciting when you see a young person achieve something athletically that they never thought was possible. 

 

All the High School coaches I know care more about the kids then they do the scores.

 

By the way, "G" you are missed in the Knoxville area!

[BigG]

I really disagree with this thought. I am sure there may be a VERY, VERY, VERY small number that feel as you propose, but that is so much the exception, not the rule.

 

I know a number of big school coaches and private school powerhouse coaches and to a person, they care much more about the players then they do about wins and loses. You spend a great deal of time with these young people and you grow to love and care about them as people, not as a potential wins or lose. I don't see how a person could spend all the time we do with these kids and not care more about them then we care about a teams record. I want to win, all the coaches I know what to win. At the same time teaching young people life lessons and using sports to do this matters as well. It is exciting to win, but it is just as exciting when you see a young person achieve something athletically that they never thought was possible. 

 

All the High School coaches I know care more about the kids then they do the scores.

 

By the way, "G" you are missed in the Knoxville area!

Thanks man!

 

I miss my Knoxville (and Blount county) soccer peeps!

 

This is a WHOLE lot bigger than just a few select people.  On face value, it does look that way, however I can assure you all that high school sports ACROSS THE BOARD (no Coach T pun intended) are going to change.

[siegelsoccer]

Good discussion - broadening my understanding from different points of view.

 

This has to be one of the most civil discussions on a controversial topic that Coacht has ever hosted.

[Playerscoach]

Thanks man!

 

I miss my Knoxville (and Blount county) soccer peeps!

 

This is a WHOLE lot bigger than just a few select people. On face value, it does look that way, however I can assure you all that high school sports ACROSS THE BOARD (no Coach T pun intended) are going to change.

Hey can anyone answer a question for me? I was told during the that currently HS players could only play in three (3) ECNL events but have since heard from others it's unlimited? Which is it?