UTC - 4th Place, 2 wrestlers in finals?

[russianbear]

Were those the guys that were coming to chatt when Terry was here? You know, the last time we had an all American.

 

If you get a high profile coaching staff with the ability to recruit the kids will come here. Saying we're not the school that the better wrestlers want to go to is a cop out. We can be that school we just have to start recruiting like we're that school. Stop going after b quality wrestlers and giving excuses for it. Debian is the best wrestler to walk through those doors in the last 10 years and we only got lucky with him bc he lived down the road. They need to man up and start recruiting harder. Or get rid of the coaches and hire someone who will.

You're making my point

Michael Keefe - GA

Howard Langford - TN

Cody Cleveland - TN

Brent Gustafson - FL

Guy Harris - FL

Charlie Heard - GA

Cerritas - FL (not possitive, but I think so)

Matt Keller - TN

 

Not one guy from PA, IN, NJ or OH

[russianbear]

 

Who was the coach before Eslinger and how did he fare with respect to producing national qualifiers and All-Americans? Not a rhetorical question. I honestly don't know. I'll say this...it takes much more than having a coach who can develop talent to have a top 20-25 program. You need to have an administration committed to the program. If a program has "C" level institutional support and people around the program have "A of B" level expectations, then there is some delusion going on no matter how good the coach is at developing talent. I don't know that this is the case at UTC but you seem to lay it all at his feet, so I am just wondering if UTC supports the program to the extent that perennial top 25 schools do. My impression has been-- and I admit I don't know this for fact -- that it does not.

 

Ken Carpenter 1947-51 (5) N/A N/A 0

Russ Scall 1952 (1) 3–5–0 .375 0

Andy Nardo 1953-67 (15) 77–30–4 .712 0

Joe Geri 1968 (1) 0–8–0 .000 0

Jim Morgan 1969-84 (16) 209–70–3 .746 6

Ethan Reeve 1985-90(6) 57–38–2 .598 5

Ralph Manning 1991-95 (5) 33–26–0 .556 4

Mark Leen 1996-2001 (6) 43–35–1 .551 3

Frankie James 2002 (1) 9–8–0 .529 1

Terry Brands 2003-05 (3) 31–33–0 .484 1

Joey Seay 2006 16–8–1 .660 1

Chris Bono 2007-09 (3) 39–17–0 .696 3

Heath Eslinger 2010-2014 (5) 68–35–0 .635 5

[Nainten]

Cbg nailed it with his question," Idk what the expectations of the UTC adminstration are regarding the wrestling program."  In my opinion it all begins and ends with what the university's expectations are.  That covers coaching, facilities, scholarships, endowments, marketing, and fundraising.  After that you need the right coach.  If you have the first eventually you find the second.  If you don't have the first then it won't matter who coaches.  

[Ummmno]

You're making my point

Michael Keefe - GA

Howard Langford - TN

Cody Cleveland - TN

Brent Gustafson - FL

Guy Harris - FL

Charlie Heard - GA

Cerritas - FL (not possitive, but I think so)

Matt Keller - TN

 

Not one guy from PA, IN, NJ or OH

No the point is that they have to broaden their horizon when it comes to recruiting. Stop only focusing on the southeast and branch out to the rest of the friggen country. Obviously the southeast isn't producing enough wrestling talent to make Chatt a top tier team. SO LOOK ELSEWHERE.

[Nainten]

 

Who was the coach before Eslinger and how did he fare with respect to producing national qualifiers and All-Americans? Not a rhetorical question. I honestly don't know. I'll say this...it takes much more than having a coach who can develop talent to have a top 20-25 program. You need to have an administration committed to the program. If a program has "C" level institutional support and people around the program have "A of B" level expectations, then there is some delusion going on no matter how good the coach is at developing talent. I don't know that this is the case at UTC but you seem to lay it all at his feet, so I am just wondering if UTC supports the program to the extent that perennial top 25 schools do. My impression has been-- and I admit I don't know this for fact -- that it does not.

 

Ken Carpenter 1947-51 (5) N/A N/A 0

Russ Scall 1952 (1) 3–5–0 .375 0

Andy Nardo 1953-67 (15) 77–30–4 .712 0

Joe Geri 1968 (1) 0–8–0 .000 0

Jim Morgan 1969-84 (16) 209–70–3 .746 6

Ethan Reeve 1985-90(6) 57–38–2 .598 5

Ralph Manning 1991-95 (5) 33–26–0 .556 4

Mark Leen 1996-2001 (6) 43–35–1 .551 3

Frankie James 2002 (1) 9–8–0 .529 1

Terry Brands 2003-05 (3) 31–33–0 .484 1

Joey Seay 2006 16–8–1 .660 1

Chris Bono 2007-09 (3) 39–17–0 .696 3

Heath Eslinger 2010-2014 (5) 68–35–0 .635 5

Soooo...seems to me H.E is doing about  as well or better than everyone dating back to Jim Morgan, no?  Not sure what the (5) and other 5 are supposed to be but regardless his numbers look good versus his predecessors.  If so can we realistically expect more from him given what he is working with? I think I am not with Ummmno on this one to simply say it's on the coach.  

Edited March 14, 2017 by Nainten

[russianbear]

No the point is that they have to broaden their horizon when it comes to recruiting. Stop only focusing on the southeast and branch out to the rest of the friggen country. Obviously the southeast isn't producing enough wrestling talent to make Chatt a top tier team. SO LOOK ELSEWHERE.

Alonzo Allen 125 So. Conyers, Ga. / Rockdale County HS

Scottie Boykin 197 Sr. Murfreesboro, Tenn. / Riverdale HS

Roman Boylen 141 So. Douglas, Ga. / Alexander HS

Bryce Carr 174 Jr. Dublin, Ga. / West Laurens HS

Chris Debien 133 So. Cleveland, Tenn. / Cleveland HS

Clay Dent 197 Sr. Piedmont, Ala. / Piedmont HS

Dylan Forzani 165 Jr. Salinas, Calif. / Salinas HS

D.J. Franklin-Smith 197 Sr. Glen Burnie, Md. / Archbishop Spalding HS

Austin Gould 133 Sr. Alabaster, Ala. / Thompson HS

Fabian Gutierrez 125 Fr. Commerce City, Colo. / Adams City HS

Cody Hill 133 Jr. Baton Rouge, La. / Live Oak HS

Jake Huffine 133 So. Catersville, Ga. / Woodland HS

Jared Johnson 285 Sr. Jefferson City, Mo. / Jefferson City HS

Rodney Jones 197 So. Duluth, Ga. / Duluth HS

Dominic Lampe 165 So. Fairdale, Ky. / Saint Xavier HS

Justin Lampe 174 Jr. Fairdale, Ky. / Saint Xavier HS

Sean Mappes 174 Sr. Greenwood, Ind. / Center Grove HS

Luke Mullin 125 Fr. Cleveland, Tenn. / Notre Dame HS

Jacob Murphy 141 Jr. Marietta, Ga. / Walton HS

Michael Pongracz 141 Sr. Milford, N.J. / Delaware Valley Regional HS

Dylanger Potter 149 Fr. Arlington, Texas / Martin HS

Zach Shareef 149 So. Woodstock, Ga. / Woodstock HS

Logan Sims 133 Fr. Cartersville, Ga. / Woodland HS

Chad Solomon 174 So. Maryville, Tenn. / Maryville HS

Ben Stacey 197 Fr. Fairview, Tenn. / Father Ryan HS

Connor Tolley 285 So. Franklin, Ind. / Franklin Community HS

Barrett Walthall 165 Jr. Memphis, Tenn. / Christian Brothers HS

Trey Watson 157 So. Jacksonville, Ala. / Thompson HS

Chase Zemenak 141 So. Nazareth, Pa. / Nazareth Area HS

 

My point final point Ummmno. It doesnt really matter where you get them from or what their past accolades are (https://www.facebook.com/NWHOFDGM/videos/1329306567092182/?hc_location=ufi). Get the guys who fit your style that you (and your staff) can develop.

Edited March 14, 2017 by russianbear

[russianbear]

Everyone has a different philosophy. I've been around a lot of wrestling, programs, coaches, philosophies, styles, etc. on all different levels. The single most important factor to success is to develop what you've got. To do that you have to make the kids believe. And Maj, not to belabor my point, but, what is the message if you're shooting for top 20???

 

Answer: 65% dual meet record and 1st or second in Southern Conference.

Edited March 14, 2017 by russianbear

[russianbear]

Soooo...seems to me H.E is doing about as well or better than everyone dating back to Jim Morgan, no? Not sure what the (5) and other 5 are supposed to be but regardless his numbers look good versus his predecessors. If so can we realistically expect more from him given what he is working with? I think I am not with Ummmno on this one to simply say it's on the coach.

The first '5' is number of years as head coach. The second '5' is Southern Conference Championships.

[JSamson7]

This is a joke right? I mean how is everybody defending him? What exactly has he accomplished since being at UTC? Sure he himself was a good wrestler there but did he ever AA? And now the program is following in his extremely mediocre footseps. Just look at the long long long list of Tennessee kids who have had good credentials just fade away into the nothingness that is UTC.

 

Get rid of Heath and get someone in the door that can actually do something with the program. Settling for SoCon championships cant be enough. They have to actually want to produce past that.

Yout wouldn't have lasted long in our room, especially against Heath. From personal experience if not for an inept coach he would have been AA. Brands was never his coach, but if he was Heath definitely would have been AA.

[JSamson7]

No the point is that they have to broaden their horizon when it comes to recruiting. Stop only focusing on the southeast and branch out to the rest of the friggen country. Obviously the southeast isn't producing enough wrestling talent to make Chatt a top tier team. SO LOOK ELSEWHERE.

Obviously you don't have a clue... My class in 96 included high school AA's and wrestlers from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, North Carolina and of course Tennessee.

 

Multiple factors on why or how that hasn't worked out, but keep in mind Heath has kicked off 2 potential AA's for different things and has a great class coming in.

[Ummmno]

Yout wouldn't have lasted long in our room, especially against Heath. From personal experience if not for an inept coach he would have been AA. Brands was never his coach, but if he was Heath definitely would have been AA.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda, but he didn't. Stop making excuses for him

[Ummmno]

Obviously you don't have a clue... My class in 96 included high school AA's and wrestlers from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Oklahoma, Washington, Idaho, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, North Carolina and of course Tennessee.

 

Multiple factors on why or how that hasn't worked out, but keep in mind Heath has kicked off 2 potential AA's for different things and has a great class coming in.

Which is even worse! So my analogy on recruiting was wrong and he just sucks as a coach then. Theres no reason we cant be a top ten program. Stop making excuses for the guy and maybe try to find ways to fix the problem instead of shaking your head and saying we'll just never be that good.