Rank Wrestlers on Rokfin

[oceansize42]

Perhaps there are more people than I think that don't know so for those... for boys the best ranking system by far is rank wrestlers on rokfin.  Why? It doesn't rely on parents and coaches reporting wins/losses to Hamm or Hamm scouring track for results.  Rank scrapes Track Wrestling and applies an algorithm to produce class rankings by divisions (A, AA, II) or across the whole state.    Of course it costs $15 bucks a month but you can use for the length of the season and cancel so $45 for an entire season.  Small price to pay for vastly superior rankings.  Plus you can see every kid's matches from across the state, the rankings of there opponents in the matches, their team, as well as big wins from across the states, set up dual match comparisons, etc., etc., etc.  Simply unbeatable.    I'm sure at some point rank will add girls but until then I guess those who care are stuck with parents/coaches.  Honestly it is so cheap for what it provides I can't imagine relying on individuals "best educated guess".

I think there is a need for "free" rankings as then the kids themselves can see a list and strive to get there but really, and with all due respect to those that produce them, they aren't that good, and I don't expect them to be as time isn't cheap.

Edited December 18, 2022 by oceansize42

[cbg]

3 minutes ago, oceansize42 said:

Perhaps there are more people than I think that don't know so for those... for boys the best ranking system by far is rank wrestlers on rokfin.  Why? It doesn't rely on parents and coaches reporting wins/losses to Hamm or Hamm scouring track for results.  Rank scrapes Track Wrestling and applies an algorithm to produce class rankings by divisions (A, AA, II) or across the whole state.    Of course it costs $15 bucks a month but you can use for the length of the season and cancel so $45 for an entire season.  Small price to pay for vastly superior rankings.  Plus you can see every kid's matches from across the state, the rankings of there opponents in the matches, their team, as well as big wins from across the states, set up dual match comparisons, etc., etc., etc.  Simply unbeatable.    I'm sure at some point rank will add girls but until then I guess those who care are stuck with parents/coaches.  Honestly it is so cheap for what it provides I can't imagine relying on individuals "best educated guess".

I think there is a need for "free" rankings as then the kids themselves can see a list and strive to get there but really, and with all due respect to those that produce them, they aren't that good, and I don't expect them to be as time isn't cheap.

Maybe this is something that Tennessee USA Wrestling could provide and publish weekly.  Rankings could be D1AA, D1A, D2 and a combined overall ranking 

[oceansize42]

9 minutes ago, cbg said:

Maybe this is something that Tennessee USA Wrestling could provide and publish weekly.  Rankings could be D1AA, D1A, D2 and a combined overall ranking 

Great idea.  If they could reach a deal where they pay a monthly fee that would allow them to publish the top 10 by weight and no other stats then I wouldn't think that would be too pricey.

[cbg]

Just now, oceansize42 said:

Great idea.  If they could reach a deal where they pay a monthly fee that would allow them to publish the top 10 by weight and no other stats then I wouldn't think that would be too pricey.

That would be something that Mike Hatcher and the TWF board would have to research 

[oceansize42]

@TNUSAWrestling  

 

Good suggestion by cbg to use rank wrestlers.

[WrestlingGod]

Georgia has their rankings behind a paywall. 
 

I know our original vision for Pin-Tn never actually came to fruition but I can’t imagine Hamm ever charging for his services. And as much stress and as many crazy emails he gets I can’t imagine him ever wanting to charge people for that. 

[cowcatcher]

I see what you are saying, but I will say that I favor Hamm's rankings over the computer. College Football likely agrees with me choosing the CFP over the old BCS computer rankings. LOL. Hamm, please don't stop your rankings if you read this. I always look forward to your take!

[oceansize42]

2 hours ago, cowcatcher said:

I see what you are saying, but I will say that I favor Hamm's rankings over the computer. College Football likely agrees with me choosing the CFP over the old BCS computer rankings. LOL. Hamm, please don't stop your rankings if you read this. I always look forward to your take!

I don't want Hamm to quit and I don't think anyone else does either.   Free is important to the kids and in the end that is all that matters. Plus like I said, Hamm's rankings gives the kids something to strive for and that is a good thing.  Particularly those that are in the 4-6 area for each weight class. I don't expect, and neither should anyone else, Hamm to be perfect because time is very expensive.

I'll say this about the algorithm, it does really really really good as the season goes along. It's weakness is of course early in the year but it does look to take into account the prior years outcomes.

Last year I monitored rank's list versus what actually went down and it was darn good.  Not only that but it removes any thoughts of favoritism particularly since quality wins are weighted as more important.   If coaches report scores, they get sucked into Rank and that is great.

 

Don't forget it also includes:

Dual match comparisons (you can select two or three teams and see every potential matchup within a weight).

State wide rankings

Big Wins

Top five in each weight class

Rankings by Grade 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by oceansize42

[grumpyoldman]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:28 AM, oceansize42 said:

Perhaps there are more people than I think that don't know so for those... for boys the best ranking system by far is rank wrestlers on rokfin.  Why? It doesn't rely on parents and coaches reporting wins/losses to Hamm or Hamm scouring track for results.  Rank scrapes Track Wrestling and applies an algorithm to produce class rankings by divisions (A, AA, II) or across the whole state.    Of course it costs $15 bucks a month but you can use for the length of the season and cancel so $45 for an entire season.  Small price to pay for vastly superior rankings.  Plus you can see every kid's matches from across the state, the rankings of there opponents in the matches, their team, as well as big wins from across the states, set up dual match comparisons, etc., etc., etc.  Simply unbeatable.    I'm sure at some point rank will add girls but until then I guess those who care are stuck with parents/coaches.  Honestly it is so cheap for what it provides I can't imagine relying on individuals "best educated guess".

I think there is a need for "free" rankings as then the kids themselves can see a list and strive to get there but really, and with all due respect to those that produce them, they aren't that good, and I don't expect them to be as time isn't cheap.

I like rank wrestlers and it is very good with the input that is provided.  I don't like how many coaches in Tennessee do not input the results on track from dual meets.  I don't know if they are lazy or just trying to protect their line up from everyone?  It's a secret, I guess.

Edited December 19, 2022 by grumpyoldman
misspelled

[oceansize42]

Was having a conversation with another Dad via text and he raised some good points which everyone should be aware of.

Rank is a purely mathematical system.  Results produce rankings.  Better results produce better rankings.  

1. 5 star recruits that travel will not be ranked correctly in many cases. Why? They will have losses to a set of super good kids who the rest of the kids from TN will never see.  No shared opponents means weights cannot be applied appropriately.  So a TN kid with no losses will likely be ranked higher than the five star who lost to number five in the country.  
2. Rankings in the early part of the year are less reliable than the rankings after the mid-way point.

All this goes to say that truly elite kids who travel to the best tournaments our country offers will be short changed by the rankings system.  

This is why Hamm's rankings are necessary.  A human can apply common sense and see past the lack of shared opponents.