formula for bracketing???

[delaWarr]

Hey guys. The only change that has occurred from the old days formula is the consideration that places the current region champs who also have placed in past State tournaments into the seeded slots determined by the criteria which were recommended by a committee of coaches. The coaches lobbied for some sort of seeding that would prevent the early meeting of past medalists. The brackets always used an element of a blind draw with the four qualifiers from each region each being placed in a separate quarter bracket. As another poster pointed out, each region champion is placed in one of the 8 seeded slots of the 32 man bracket. (Any of these 8 who have medaled in a previous State Tournament will be given a seeding preference.) The region champ is paired in the first round with a #4 from a region whose #1 is in the other quarter bracket of the same semi bracket. This keeps all regions' #1s and #4s in the same semi bracket as prescribed by tradition. The first round winner between a #1 and a #4 will meet in the second round with the winner of a first round match between a #2 and #3 from regions whose #1s are in the opposite semi bracket. Again, this keeps with convention in placing a #1 and a #4 from the same region into the same semi bracket and the #2 and #3 from that same region into the opposite semi bracket.

 

Keeping in mind that there are 32 slots on the bracket, 8 for #1s, 8 for #2s, 8 for #3s, and 8 for #4s. Each quarter bracket will have 8 slots filled by one wrestler from each of the 8 separate regions: 2 #1s (who cannot meet before the quarter finals), 2 #2s, 2 #3s, and 2 #4s.

 

To summarize, only the 8 region champions have a designated place on the bracket, and, if they are not seedible, even those placements are by blind draw and have been ever since we expanded from the 8 man brackets in the old, old early days of Joe Drennan and John Farr. Once the 8 champions are in place, then their #4s are placed by draw in the other quarter bracket of the same semi bracket (There are only 2 slots into which they can be drawn.) Their #2s and #3s are then drawn into one or the other of the two quarter brackets in the opposite semi bracket. When a #2 is drawn into a quarter bracket, then the #3 must go into the other quarter bracket.

 

I apologized for being so repetitive. It would be much easier to explain and understand if were in the same room with sample brackets to work with.

[walkenvol]

dela - Very informative post. Cleared up some misunderstandings that I had.

[rcpatriot]

does this mean that boss from tull. just got lucky and received the #2 spot in the 160 class?

[mjgIII]

Great job delaWarr. I think I understand but, as you stated, it would be easier to be in the room with brackets. I'm still not a fan of blind drawing the region champs and automatically seeding the returning placers. I understand everyone's hesitancy to just rank the wrestlers but I think it could be done and done well. Every seeding meeting I've been in has gone well overall. You give a little and get a little but in the end everyone seems happy, or has some nice motivating ammunition for their wrestler.

[delaWarr]

rcpatriot, Please understand that I am just a talking head with absolutely no official or unofficial input into any TSSAA activity. I am responding from my past understanding, and changes could have occurred without my being aware. So take anything I post that addresses TSSAA action only as a direction for further inquiry, not as an absolute.

 

With that being said, here is my take on your question. According to the information on the TSSAA site, two wrestlers who qualified at 160 were past State medalists. Only one of them won his region and qualifies for a seed. That wrestler is seeded # 1. All 7 of the other region #1s were drawn into the remaining 7 seeded slots. So, barring information to which I am not privy, the answer to your question is "Yes", not only was the 2nd seed slot filled by luck of the draw, so were 3 through 8.

[rcpatriot]

delawarr, thanks for all your input. i completely understand what you have said and in no way am i questioning your knowledge. i just think it is odd that boss got the 2nd spot by blind draw, shipley got the 3rd spot by blind draw, and driggers got the 4th spot by blind draw. both boss and shipley have previously been mentioned as contenders, and of course, driggers is basically an unknown. before anyone gets on here and says that i'm whinning, no i'm not. i was just trying to figure out how a wrestler gets seeded 4th after beating 1 individual that, for most of the season, held onto the #2 ranking, and also beating the most previously #2 ranked individual.

i realize nothing we discuss on here will change any of this and we'll just have to live with it. we will do our best and hope to see mr gibson in the semi's. got to get past johnson from antioch first.

good luck to all wrestlers! its been a great year!!

[Edited by rcpatriot on 2-11-03 9:05P]

[Edited by rcpatriot on 2-11-03 9:06P]

 

[Guest ACS]

bk, the seed meetings you have been too were probably for regular tournaments with a 16 man bracket to work with. Remember this is a 32 man bracket with all the spots filled. Coaches would have to show up for the seed meeting from all over the state on, say a Monday, the meeting would have to start early because a regular seed meeting takes around 2-4 hours, this would be at least double because of all the arguments that would come up because so and so from Memphis hasn't ever heard of the so and so from Nashville. People are still going to be unhappy about who they end up wrestling and where they are at in the bracket, and coaches would be able to put some of the blame on other coaches for getting there guy here or there, now they can only blame some numbers. The way it is done now creates a whole lot less confusion or chaos than a seed meeting would.

[Guest jaybo2425]

I am pleased with the seeding and blind draw for a couple of reasons. First, it keeps two wrestlers of the same region wrestling each other until the semis, and that is not common. Also, everyone hears the saying the cream will rise to the top. Well I don't go into the state tournament looking to just place in the top six. I go into the tournament looking to win the whole thing. That takes beating the best to get there. That in my opinion is a true CHAMPION.

[mjgIII]

Yeah ACS, you're probably right. And all of my experience has been with a 16 man bracket. Logistically, it makes sense too. I just always tend to think perfect world. Good luck at state.

[topfootballfan6]

What happens if you had someone at lets say 125 that was going to bump to 130. If the 125 won 3rd last year and the best in 130 was a 2nd place and a 5th place. Where is the 125 pounder going to get seeded??? Will he get seeded 2nd behind last years 2nd place 130, or behind 5th place 130???

[delaWarr]

The criteria are listed in the Handbook on the TSSAA site under IV. State Tournament D1, C.

 

From my take, it appears that placement takes precedent over weight class. B. says that returning champ in weight class gets 1st consideration, then the champ at higher weight class, then champ at lower weight class. C. says the same thing applies to returning 2nds, 3rds...

 

My interpretation is that since the 125 is a higher placer than the returning 130 5th placer that the 125 would be seeded higher than the 130 5th placer.

 

Check out the TSSAA site and see if you come up with the same interpretation.