should private schools be taken out of single A?

[ELA]

Q-Will the TSSAA lose money if all privates pull out and form their own association?

A-YES!

Q-Will most public schools care?

A-Absolutely not!

Q-How much will they lose?

A-About 15-22% of their total income.

Q-Will it effect the overall TSSAA operation?

A-NO, Not significantly!

Q-Can the private schools effectively form their own association?

A-YES! Mississippi private school teams have a fine organization.

Q-Who will benefit from such a split?

A-Both public and private?

[OnlineLC]

I would anticipate around a 20% financial impact also.

 

I ran some numbers (Football Playoffs) based on 3 classifications for Private and 4 for Public. I had the TSSAA revenue at $3.50.

 

For Privates I assumed only 4 rounds of playoff games (with some byes in week 1), I also assumed a lower attendance average though I am not sure this is really valid.

 

The numbers are below. Sorry but I can't paste a spreadsheet and the tabs don't work properly so I have comma delimitied it.

 

Private Division Playoffs - 3 Classifications

Round, Games, Attendance,TSSAA Rev

1. 6, 2000, $42,000

2, 4, 3000, $42,000

3, 2, 4600, $32,200

4, 1, 5000, $17,500

 

Revenue per Classification $133,700

Total Revenue for 3 Classifications $401,100

 

 

Public Division Playoffs - 4 Classifications

Round, Games, Attendance,TSSAA Rev

1, 16, 3000, $168,000

2, 8, 3000, $84,000

3, 4, 4000, $56,000

4, 2, 5000, $35,000

5, 1, 7000, $24,500

 

Revenue per Classification $367,500

Total Revenue for 4 Classifications $1,470,000

Edited July 12, 2003 by OnlineLC

[ELA]

I think your numbers for the upper public classifications is very low although it seems good for the smaller schools. Even after expenses, most 5A playoff games have much larger revenue! The TSSAA can operate on an annual loss of $500,000 from football... the real question is can the private schools operate a new state athletic association on less than $500,000? Even if all of the other sports equals another $500,000, will it be enough money to hire a staff and lease office facilities and fund playoff games?

[OnlineLC]

I think your numbers for the upper public classifications is very low although it seems good for the smaller schools. Even after expenses, most 5A playoff games have much larger revenue! The TSSAA can operate on an annual loss of $500,000 from football... the real question is can the private schools operate a new state athletic association on less than $500,000? Even if all of the other sports equals another $500,000, will it be enough money to hire a staff and lease office facilities and fund playoff games?

I was trying to go for averages so 3A attendances was what I was shooting for in the Public Side and DivII AA attendances for Private.

 

I don't know if the Privates would have enough revenue to start their own organization. I think we could double to triple the reveneues to allow for other sports. Of course that would apply to both Public and Private.

 

I personally favor a multiplier rather than a split but can live with either. If the Privates left the TSSAA I think it would be a big setback in Tennessee Athletics. Who knows what rules would be in place for the Private association and I would be concerned that a few of the wealthier schools could raid Publics and Smaller Privates alike for key players. Ie Big Business

[BDURHAM]

Online, does "raid" equal "recruit"?

[OnlineLC]

Online, does "raid" equal "recruit"?

Stan,

In this scenario I do mean exactly that.

 

I am placing a scenario where the Privates start their own division and the existing financial aid rules would no longer apply (ie a 3rd party). It is possible that a handfull of the wealthier schools will give full scholarships to players who can build the prestige of their school within athletics. At that point you have in effect created a super division which will get all the attention.

 

I know you are a big Metro Public School fan, will a split have solved anything for you if suddenly one year you find that your star tailnback has transferred to MBA, your All Americam Tackle has gone to BA and your QB gone to BGA?

 

I realize I am putting forward a worst case scenario and it is unlikely that the smaller privates would ever vote in such a rule for a new organization. I know for a fact that the school I follow could in no way shape or form afford to keep up with the big boys.

 

Till 2-3 years ago, 1A was the correct classification for the likes of Ezell, CPA, DCA, USJ, Boyd, FRA and Davidson Academy. I think some advantages probably have surfaced, though I will argue very strenuously that the major difference at CPA is David Pack and a great coaching team which in itself is a definite advantage.

 

As non of these schools offer financial aid, I think they could all be competitive (Not dominant)at the 3A level along with Lipscomb and Goodpasture.

 

Most of the other privates are fine where they are, as they are not dominating anybody

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I said the same thing OnlineLC said about 3 or 4 months ago!

 

 

Rest assure the recruiting rules will not be the same as they are for publics...privates, understand more than anyone, how important it is to get their name out and "self recruit" The rules might be stricter, they might be more lax, it's tough to say...but they will be different...the rules in MPSAA are different from the ones in the TSSAA and probably different from the rules of the MS athletic governing body.

 

 

You can have your cake publics, but you can't eat it too.

[BDURHAM]

Online,

 

Thank you for the response and explanations. It is refreshing to read reasonable and articulate posts on this thread.

 

Much of what we see and experience is the result of change. The Grand Canyon simply didn't appear, it was formed by rivers and other geological forces.

 

In similar fashion, the present TSSAA classifications are the results of change. The bigger privates are in Division II for obvious reasons. What we may be experiencing down the road is another change....the split.

 

What I think we are about to experience is predominantly the result of natural forces. Privates simply have evolved in a fashion that has put them on a higher level than their public counterparts. The previous "split" was probably the result of a combination of natural and unnatural forces. BA is an example of the unnatural evolution.

 

I tend to doubt that we will see more "raids" on the metro athletes. There may be some, but in my opinion, for an bigger raid to take place, it will have to come from the smaller privates.

 

MBA, McCallie, Christian Brothers, etc. are probably close to their maximum in financial aid. I doubt they will place a bigger priority on athletics if there is a split. On the other hand, if the smaller privates want to compete with the bigger privates, they will have to upgrade. And I have a hunch that many of the smaller privates will start providing more financial aid if they are no longer in Division I.

 

I think the privates may actually raid each other. I think the vast majority of the present metro athletes have neither the inclination nor grades to attend private schools. But as you stated, there may be a top athlete or two who choose to leave metro schools if more opportunities become available.

 

My guess is that metro athletics will not experience any significant change. The big change will be in the private realm.

Edited July 13, 2003 by StanTrott

[OnlineLC]

Thanks Stan,

You may well be correct in the fact that the larger Div II schools are at their max on financial aid.

 

I do have some concerns if now us smaller private schools have to go that route. First of all is the cost, most of the 1A privates have cheaper tuition than MBA and BA. For the most part it is deliberate to enable families to be able to afford the cost of a Christian School Education. If we have to now start financial aid, I see tuition going up and kids who are neither academically or athletically gifted will be taking the full impact of the increase.

 

My bigger concern is that the whole vision of the schools may change. MBA, BA , BGA etc have a tradition of academic and athletic excellence and in my opinion it is well balanced as it has grown over time. If all of a sudden a CPA, FRA etc can raid the publics with for good players, it has a detrimental effect on what the schools were set up for in the first place and also has a negative impact on Tennessee athletics in general.

 

If you remember a couple of months ago, myself and robjim were pretty candid with you on some of our concerns on the chat board. None of that has changed.

[BDURHAM]

OnLine,

 

I remember the chat session and the content. Your honesty is appreciated.

 

Unless someone becomes Albert Einstein and develops a new idea on this issue, we are doomed to the same script. Whenever a private beats a public, the public supporters will always say the privates have advantages.

 

The evolution of small Tennessee private school athletics has surprised me. CPA not only beat publics last year, they beat a private team in the championship game that I still cannot believe they beat. But that is off topic.

 

It was easy to understand how a Baylor or MBA fielded strong football teams. But the development of the small privates (Chattanooga - Nashville - Jackson - Memphis) has been surprising. I understand the flight from public schools, but I have underestimated how well the private city boys can compete with the kids from rural areas.

 

The development of these private teams has begged for a change in the classifications. But I don't think we would be headed for a total split if there had not been some prior history.

 

The 1A and 2A privates are victims of their own success...in addition to the history. A lot can happen between now and December. The privates should hope that the BA court case decision is not handed down before the final vote takes place.

 

If I were a private supporter, I would be working on the Board at the TSSAA.

Edited July 14, 2003 by StanTrott

[Chakra20]

As everyone here knows i support private schools but i got a scenario to run by you guys and see what yuou think. As we all know this whole things starts off with Riverdale not bein able to beat BA and here we go. As division 2 is started the private school have some phone calls back and forth and see what is going to happen in the future with a total split. The time was right to get some people in place ie coaches and athletes to make a good presence so the school only has to "recruit" for 2 or 3 years then they can live off their own sucess.

 

Tha handwritting was on the wall so it was a good time for the privates to make sure that all good athletes know they dominate in sports and if you want a chance to play on a great team with a great coach and have a chance @ college you goto private schools. Now as you can see the rise of many of these privates sports programs coincided with the formation of Division2. I just thought that was interesting.

Edited July 14, 2003 by Chakra20

[yellowdog]

The privates should hope that the BA court case decision is not handed down before the final vote takes place.

If BA untimately wins the lawsuit then the face of high school athletics will forever be changed, not just in Tennessee but nationwide.