A private to public transfer

[lazarus]

greetings & salutations kitschme,

 

let me begin by saying that i know absolutely nothing about harding, its athletic programs, or the aau program in question. i dont even have an opinion as to the merit of jumpshort's claim... however;

 

i believe that your first statement fails to establish the "impossibility" of offering athletic "scholarships". theoretically there is a limit to the amount of scholarship that can be offered. but that doesnt keep the subject from being broached. my child went to a d-II school, with a scholarship, and the assurance that scholarship money would be available (and a darn good estimate of the amount) was on the table from the first contact. in our case the school made contact for academic strength, but there is no reason that athletics couldnt figure just as well, if that is what the school considers important. again, i am not accusing anyone of offering athletic scholarships, just saying it is an insult to my intelligence to ask me to believe it is impossible.

 

as for the second statement, private schools allowing outside use of the facilities. i want to say that it is true (and then some). private schools are often more generous in allowing facility use by the community than public schools.

 

lastly, why go to harding over white station? i can think of a million reasons, but i dont think i can improve on what ergo had to say.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Ever heard of Marc Gasol?

 

 

Mr. Basketball nominee (he might have won this year, can't remember). Brother of Memphis Grizzlie Pal Gasol. 7 Footer with three point range. Anyways, he went to White Station for about two days and left the school. He wasn't able to play at that level (Tippett told me this point blank). So he goes to Lausanne, leads the city in scoring and possibly rebounding, and takes his team to the D2 state championship.

 

White Station just wasn't the right place for him...he needed smaller environment. He also couldn't run and jump with the Spartan players, but could play a more relaxed, slow down pace that the Lynx possessed.

 

 

There is an example of someone turning down the Station, and still succeeding.

I believe he will now play for the Memphis Tigers.

[Jumpshot]

OK Guys,

I am not in the argument as to whether a person can receive a better education at a private school over a public school; neither do I argue that it is a parent's right to send their child where ever they want to. I'm not even arguing that a player can succeed at either a public or private school. All I am saying is that by TSSAA rules, a coach or a representative of a school CANNOT approach any player that is not zoned to that school about attending the school for athletic purposes. That rule is clearly stated for all to read.

 

The particular incident that I am referring to was that these young men in particular were recruited to come to Harding to play basketball and that their expenses would be covered, (Is that a scholarship? Sounds like it to me.) They were not recruited for their academics, as a matter of fact, they wouldn't have been recruited at all if they couldn't play basketball.

 

As to Harding allowing their facilities to be used for AAU practice, there is nothing wrong with that. If the Harding coaches used that situation to recruit their captive audience, then it is wrong and Harding should not be allowed to offer its facilities under those circumstances!

[VolunteerGeneral]

Jumpshot....Are you saying that a coach can contact a student from his zone? If so, then Harding has no zones. What about public schools with open zones? Is a coach allowed to ask a kid if he is going to play basketball, baseball..etc...if that kid is free to attend his high school?

 

 

Can a coach with a closed zone contact kids from a feeder middle school? If the public high school is open zoned and gets fed from all over the city then can a coach contact kids?

 

Just wondering?

[itzme]

Offering financial aid as an inducement to attend is a violation of TSSAA rules. Ic an nderstand why you wouldn't turn yourself in, but OK, fine, I have no chips in the game. Harding recruits. You guys figure it out!

Edited August 15, 2003 by itzme

[Jumpshot]

Volunteer,

Every kid has a school zone. There is a public school that services his address. His athletic eligibility is at his zoned school. There are a number of ways that this player can go to another school legally, but all have to be at his and his parents initiation. Any high school coach can talk to players that are attending a school which is that high school's feeder school, or to any player that lives in his high school zone. They cannot talk to players at other feeder schools or that live outside their zone. Players in large metro areas can choose to attend an optional or magnet school, but the coaches at these shools are in violation if they are out recruiting players for their program. Just because a school can accept open transfers does not give that coach the right to "steal" other schools' players.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Volunteer,

Every kid has a school zone. There is a public school that services his address. His athletic eligibility is at his zoned school. There are a number of ways that this player can go to another school legally, but all have to be at his and his parents initiation. Any high school coach can talk to players that are attending a school which is that high school's feeder school, or to any player that lives in his high school zone. They cannot talk to players at other feeder schools or that live outside their zone. Players in large metro areas can choose to attend an optional or magnet school, but the coaches at these shools are in violation if they are out recruiting players for their program. Just because a school can accept open transfers does not give that coach the right to "steal" other schools' players.

Just wondering again....

 

Madison Academic here in Madison County is entierly open zoned. Their feeder schools are all the middle schools in Madison County. Can a coach from Madison have any contact with any middle school in Madison County since "legally" (not sure if that is the word I should use) that is their feeder program? Also what if representatives from Madison were sent to Middle schools (including a coach or two) to make a presentation about Madison? Would this not be initiating contact?

[rocole98]

volunteer general,

 

pearl-cohn is different from the other magnet schools, with the magnet-within-the-zone school concept. most people in nashville forget that p-c has a magnet program within its building. east lit, mlk and hume-fogg are the high schools in metro that are strictly magnet programs and have rivalries between them. (nashville school for the arts doesn't have sports that i am aware of.) those three schools don't play pearl-cohn in anything that i know of right now, so we forget they have a magnet program over there. sorry. (i have one child at east lit and one at hume-fogg, so once again, if mlk plays them in b-ball, forgive me.)

 

the reason i mentioned that hfa titles have been primarily in girls' sports was because this public v. private debate has always seemed to me to be a football issue at its heart. i know other sports have chimed in, but the origins are in football, a non-girl sport. i don't know of any girls at hume-fogg that are there because of the sports programs--they are there because of the academic reputation of the school and the millions of dollars in college academic scholarships offered to students each year. (this past year alone, for less than 225 seniors, over $11 million, btw) if sports was the issue at our house, we would send our daughter to her zone school -- she plays softball and is zoned for hunters lane. hunters lane did quite well this past year at state and should be good again this year. and most parents that their daughters went through meigs (the academic middle school magnet) feel the same way. i can only speak for that part of the hume-fogg population, but i am confident in that area.

 

i also don't know how students get into magnets in other counties. in metro, there is a lottery where a number corresponding to each child is drawn out of a fishbowl. (they show it on local cable here) and when each of my children were in fifth grade--it was very hard to get a seat. my oldest was so far down on the waiting list for meigs that we knew she would never get in (somewhere around 200th) and was also on the waiting list for east. we didn't know until the week before school that she would get in that year. my second child was more fortunate--she was one of the first forty numbers selected for meigs. but we know lots of people who applied to more that one magnet and didn't get in anywhere. maybe its different at tyner or other places, i can't say. i just cannot envision the day where anyone can stack a metro nashville magnet school (once again, read that as hume-fogg, mlk or east) for sports.

[VolunteerGeneral]

nice post rocole....

 

Could you answer a few more questions? How does one get into Pearl Cohn`s magnet program? How hard is it to get in?

 

How do you explain the success of MLK`s girl`s programs?(Assuming they attend for academic reasons)

 

Private school students (at least here in Jackson) garner loads of scholarship money as well, yet most public supporters want to think they only go there for sports. What`s the difference here? Are we to believe those split supporters who don`t realize that most private school kids attend private school from the first grade? Do those kids parent`s send them there all their life to play sports or for the education?

[Jumpshot]

Volunteer,

 

It's my understanding of the recruiting rule that coaches at magnet, open enrollment, or optional schools cannot approach a player or parent about an athlete coming to their school to play sports.

 

They have no feeder school thus they cannot go to another school's feeder school to recruit athletes that are zoned to another high school. Academic representatives can go to any feeder school and deliver a presentation concerning the academics at the magnet school and include a part on the athletic offerings at the school and the success of the school's programs.

 

A rule of thumb to follow is that it is against the rules for a coach to talk to any player about coming to their school unless the player is zoned to that school, period.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Jumpshot....I`m assuming that since coaches are teachers that a coach could be an academic representative. Even if the coach wasn`t the representative, I would find it very likely that the representative would indeed talk about all the extra curricular activities at the school including sports.

 

This is all totally cool with me. I love the idea of students having choices and being informed. But basically the representative of the magnet school is there to"recruit" kids.

 

Private schools which, like magnet schools, don`t have that type of access to public school kids. So they advertise. Yet this is totally ridiculed by split supporters as an unfair advantage. That`s why the Supreme Court ruled in BA`s favor. They like magnet school`s need to "recruit" students.

[Jumpshot]

Volunteer,

Magnet schools and optional schools are formed to offer students a better academic offering than they can get at their zoned school. They are supposed to be more academically challenging for the gifted student. They can advertise just like private schools.

 

In Memphis, people line up at the board for two days just to get a chance to get their children in these schools. As an academic institution, the school is allowed to recruit students for their programs. If an athlete wants to go to a magnet school to take advantage of its academic offerings, and he/she doesn't have a previous athletic record at another high school, then there is nothing wrong with that.

 

The "gray" area comes when the coaches at that school try to build their athletic programs by taking advantage of the open transfer rule and/or go to feeder schools and aggresively recruit athletes. The open rule was designed to build solid academic schools, not powerhouse athletic teams.