This is the second time...

[TheEgoHasLanded]

pujo has hit on the above a few times, and several have laughed at him; but he's right. Many of the rural kids have no interest in sports, a college education, etc.; so we can't ''blackmail'' them into playing sports. All we have to do is recognize the percentage of those who go on, and ultimately complete college, from private vs. public shcools. Again, good post.

 

That is very sad that rural kids do not wish to play sports or perhaps get a college education. Unfortunately, that excuse just doesn't hold water.

 

Do I believe it...Yes

 

Do I think we should split teams up, change divisions, rivalries, traveling, gate receipts, scheduling, and sports programs because of it...No

 

 

 

Many people do not want to talk about a rural/ urban problem because of the racial over tones. Many of the good athletes live in the city. The odds are that most athletes can not afford to go to a private school (heck most kids, regardless of their athletic accomplishments can't or are unwilling) Those odds would mean that there were more athletes at public schools rather than private.

 

Do the private schools complain...No

 

I have seen teams like Cosby compete in basketball. I remember a couple years ago they had the state record for most three pointers in a game. They even beat an Ingle Martin led MBA team in basketball that year. MBA had won three straight D2- basketball championships. Cosby is not the largest public 1A school, but the interest is there. They have had guys like Mark McGaha and other great players...

They don't make excuses in basketball, because they can compete against any school in basketball...but teams like them make excuses in football, simply because they can't.

 

 

Not one private school is whipping up on Cosby in basketball, maybe one year it's Chattanooga Christian, the next it's Temple...I just don't see a valid excuse they can make, unless they say open zones, which still doesn't amount to much because you have schools that are single A that are playing against them and not doing well.

 

 

P.S. Cosby doesn't own that three point record anymore. About three years ago Taurean T-Head Moy from Booker T-Washington had like 26 threes or something like that in one game! He scored around 80 points or so...Guess what. BTW is a public school...and it has open zones!

Edited December 27, 2003 by TheEgoHasLanded

[krichunaka]

Well, we can drop the concern about the "split," now can't we? :justwrestle:

 

Cosby is indeed a fine basketball team, and a perennial contender for Murfreesboro. Unaka is also a very competitive basketball program, having defeated Cosby a few times in the past few years, though I think Cosby holds an overall won-loss advantage over Unaka. They whipped us by a dozen or more a couple weeks back, and the game at Unaka should be a great one, with Unaka being healthy, after having a few fighting the flu last time.

 

But I think that most of the concern by the rurals is with football. You probably remember the very good run that ETSU had in basketball during the eighties and nineties; they even beat UT a couple times. But I think we both know what would have happened if the BUCS football team had visited Neyland Stadium on any given Saturday; and it would've mattered very little if UT was either up or down, talent wise.

 

A good Single A basketball team consist of two or three decent players. And with a couple good players, and one all-state type player, then a team can often be a team to reckon with.

 

But Football-to-Basketball is simply an apples-and-oranges comparrison. But your points are still well-taken.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Hmmm

 

 

See this is the public school mentality. It's a problem as long as we are losing. You don't have a problem with the private schools in basketball because the public schools are very competetive, so there is no problem. Only in football. There is either a problem or there isn't one.

 

If the privates win, there is a problem, if they don't then there is none...well there is, we will just go to another sport.

 

darned if we win, darned if we lose.

[Antwan]

Hmmm

 

 

See this is the public school mentality.  It's a problem as long as we are losing.  You don't have a problem with the private schools in basketball because the public schools are very competetive, so there is no problem.  Only in football.  There is either a problem or there isn't one.

 

If the privates win, there is a problem, if they don't then there is none...well there is, we will just go to another sport.

 

darned if we win, darned if we lose.

There is that private school mentality. The world is against us...poor pitiful us.

Don't hate us because we are beautiful...right?

Edited December 28, 2003 by Antwan

[TyFry]

That means during the last three years that private single A schools have won 33 championships and public single A schools have won 6. That is a total of 85%. I don't have the figure but don't private single A schools make up less than 20% of the teams playing single A sports.

 

Again I am not making any accusations against private schools. It just seems there must be a difference. Do all the best coaches in all sports go to private single A schools? Do all of the best athletes just happen to attend private single A schools? Maybe it is true that the private single A schools work harder than the public schools. It just seems odd to me that walking through the front door of a private school makes you a better coach, a better athlete and a harder worker than the public opponents. Just wondering.

I would say that this is a strong trend. Tacoma has a great argument.

[Baldcoach]

No doubt divI privates have won more than their share for the last few years.

 

3 questions:

 

1) Is it just a few of them winning multiple championships?

 

2) If we take the last few years and add them in to the last 20 do the State Titles look more balanced?

 

3) Before the privates started winning in the last few years were there a few publics that dominated statistically?

 

I ask these because 3 or 4 years could be a statistical blip...maybe not, but could be.

 

One final question. If a team was getting beaten badly for years, improves and starts winning a lot, should that team be punished or praised?

[TyFry]

No doubt divI privates have won more than their share for the last few years.

 

3 questions:

 

1) Is it just a few of them winning multiple championships?

 

2) If we take the last few years and add them in to the last 20 do the State Titles look more balanced?

 

3) Before the privates started winning in the last few years were there a few publics that dominated statistically?

 

I ask these because 3 or 4 years could be a statistical blip...maybe not, but could be.

 

One final question. If a team was getting beaten badly for years, improves and starts winning a lot, should that team be punished or praised?

I'll attempt to answer these the best I can.

 

1. No it isn't. In fact one of the main complaints is not just the championships but the dominance of their participation in the playoffs. In many of the sports the final four competitors are all private schools.

 

2. When you factor in 20 years it is not as bad. However there is still an inequity of the final four participants being private schools. One would assume that if private schools made up 20% of the schools competing in Single A, over that same period they would have made up about 20% of the state tournament teams. That is not the case.

 

3. There have been occasional public schools that have dominated a specific sport for a 3-5 year period but not that often. Based on the percentage given, the public schools have not made up 80% of the participants.

 

As for punishing or praising a team that has changed their competitiveness, I tip my hat to any program that has upgraded their ability to compete. I just don't see how presenting one of these teams a trophy would be considered punishment.

[krichunaka]

Hmmm

 

 

See this is the public school mentality.  It's a problem as long as we are losing.  You don't have a problem with the private schools in basketball because the public schools are very competetive, so there is no problem.  Only in football.  There is either a problem or there isn't one.

 

If the privates win, there is a problem, if they don't then there is none...well there is, we will just go to another sport.

 

darned if we win, darned if we lose.

EGO,

I've attempted to be as polite and diplomatic as possible. You are the one who resorted to basketball as your point of reference. And rightfully, the publics would have a better chance of competing where you need only two or three decent players to be competitive. Again you were the one who quickly used basketball to deflect criticism.

 

You keep repeating that you don't care; that you're a Division 2 supporter. Good for you. But again, as long as the privates have their pick of the litter, they're going to have a huge advantage. And your "get better, or drop the sport" reply gets a bit tiring.

 

Bottom line, Ego, football and basketball is again comparing apples to oranges. Funny you didn't respond to the ETSU example. It's much different ..... it's a simple game of math.

 

There is a problem, yes. The problem is more in football because of the numbers, the participation ratio....that is indeed, what we've been talking about on these relevant threads for well over a year, now, Ego.....DUHHHHHHHHH.

 

We could just as easily add baseball and girls' softball to the debate, but you, in typical fashion, will find a way to cancel it out by bringing up horse-shoes or ping-pong.

Edited December 29, 2003 by krichunaka

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Your ETSU example makes perfect sense...How about my example comparing UT and ETSU in football in terms of finances. Do we seperate schools because one school has better facilities, coaches, and tradition over another one? No, of course not, so therefore we shouldn't do it for public schools.

 

I'm not deflecting any criticism on to basketball...I simply went to another sport (remember a multiplier will change other sports) so therefore we should talk about it. I used Cosby because we were talking about student participation and how Cosby has that in basketball...and also, not coincidentally, fields an incredibly competetive team every year. That is the reason I went to it, to prove the fact that public school support leads to very good teams...If the support is there in football, I would see no reason that very good teams couldn't be fielded. If you agree that student participation is the major problem here, thats fine...where we disagree is the fact that you do not punish schools because other schools have trouble fielding teams...I do not believe that is their problem.

 

 

Antwan-Thanks for telling me I'm beautiful, The world isn't against us though...last time I checked the Supreme Court was with us, and so was the TSSAA...I could really care less who disagreed with me, as long as I have those two on my side, I'm in pretty good shape...So perhaps you should say, the world, minus the TSSAA and the United States Supreme Court.

 

This debate is starting to go in circles...I'm growing tired of it, and am starting to realize the reason I stayed away from this board for the last 5 months, I do enjoy talking about these subjects as long as it goes in different directions and we aren't arguing over the same thing every time.

[TyFry]

Your ETSU example makes perfect sense...How about my example comparing UT and ETSU in football in terms of finances. Do we seperate schools because one school has better facilities, coaches, and tradition over another one? No, of course not, so therefore we shouldn't do it for public schools.

You cannot compare high school to college football. Regardless of the school size, fan base or financial package, college football teams playing in the same division may all offer the same number of scholarships. That is the same participation number.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

I can do it just as easily as he can compare ETSU and UT in basketball and football.

 

The real key is, do we punish private schools because public schools are unable to field teams.

 

Period, end of discussion...thats it.

 

No one wants to say that, but that is the problem.

[TyFry]

How do you see that private schools will be punished?