This is the second time...

[Dalton91]

Maybe, just maybe, this is more of a Rural/Urban issue. Kids in urban areas have access to more youth programs and, generally, better coaching. This is hard to prove since there are few, if any, 1A public urban schools, whereas, the majority of private schools are in metro areas. What about at the higher classifications? Do urban schools win more state titles than rural schools?

 

Not argruing...just curious.

[takedown3]

Maybe, just maybe, this is more of a Rural/Urban issue. Kids in urban areas have access to more youth programs and, generally, better coaching. This is hard to prove since there are few, if any, 1A public urban schools, whereas, the majority of private schools are in metro areas. What about at the higher classifications? Do urban schools win more state titles than rural schools?

 

Not argruing...just curious.

Your observation regarding urban/rural is one that has been posited as more determinative of success than private/public issues. However, public supporters don't want to address that issue because of racial overtones, so they have primarily beat up on the privates as the source of their lack of success. If they had succeeded in ousting privates, they would have turned their ire on urban schools under the "code" of magnet schools. The main plaintiffs are a bunch of small rural schools who can't win football championships. The only way to satisfy their issues is a new TSSAA designation - Single R.

[TyFry]

During the last three years private single A schools have won 33 championships and public single A schools have won 6. That is a total of 85%. I don't have the figure but don't private single A schools make up less than 20% of the teams playing single A sports.

 

Again I am not making any accusations against private schools. It just seems there must be a difference. Do all the best coaches in all sports go to private single A schools? Do all of the best athletes just happen to attend private single A schools? Maybe it is true that the private single A schools work harder than the public schools. It just seems odd to me that walking through the front door of a private school makes you a better coach, a better athlete and a harder worker than the public opponents. Just wondering.

We are still waiting on an answer.

[TheEgoHasLanded]

Reasons private schools are winning...

 

1-better student participation rate.

 

2-year round weight lifting programs.

 

3-better facilities

 

4-more coaches, perhaps better coaches (the second is an opinion)

 

5-open zones

 

 

I do not believe the first four are reason that you seperate the private schools. The public schools could match all of those things if they wanted to, they just choose not to, therefore I don't buy that claim. I've always said we do not give pity to small colleges who play D1 compared to bigger schools that play D1.

 

The fifth reason, I include, not because I believe it is a absolute reason for privates winning (I actually think it is mostly the first reason). But public schools do not have that ability to get any player they want (unless you include Alcoa, Tyner, and all the Memphis City Schools) therefore it is a reason. There is nothing that can be done...if you split the private schools you still have those other schools with open zone access playing against you, and you will ask them to leave.

[TyFry]

Reasons private schools are winning...

 

1-better student participation rate.

 

I do not believe the first four are reason that you seperate the private schools. The public schools could match all of those things if they wanted to, they just choose not to, therefore I don't buy that claim.

What do you propose public schools to do to increase the participation to the level of private schools?

[VolunteerGeneral]

Reasons private schools are winning...

 

1-better student participation rate.

 

I do not believe the first four are reason that you seperate the private schools.  The public schools could match all of those things if they wanted to, they just choose not to, therefore I don't buy that claim.

What do you propose public schools to do to increase the participation to the level of private schools?

Ask Cloudland. A couple of years ago they had the highest percentage of students playing football than any of the teams that made the playoffs (including the private schools)

[TyFry]

I will say it again. This is not a football argument. It encompasses all athletics. The average private school has 60% of the student body in athletics. The average public school has 25%.

[Baldcoach]

I will say it again. This is not a football argument. It encompasses all athletics. The average private school has 60% of the student body in athletics. The average public school has 25%.

 

Are we talking about the division 1 privates here? I would think 60% is high. Where are these percentages coming from?

[VolunteerGeneral]

I will say it again. This is not a football argument. It encompasses all athletics. The average private school has 60% of the student body in athletics. The average public school has 25%.

TyFry...you are right it does encompass all sports, but most assuredly football is driving this issue.

[krichunaka]

Reasons private schools are winning...

1-better student participation rate.

2-better facilities

4-more coaches, perhaps better coaches (the second is an opinion)

5-open zones

I do not believe the first four are reason that you seperate the private schools. The public schools could match all of those things if they wanted to, they just choose not to, therefore I don't buy that claim.

Ego, Dangit, I have to admit that one of your reasons - the first one, better student participation - is absolutely right; and infact, if someone could wave the magic wand and poof, everybody that the coaches wanted to play football... well, they would play football, then most of the problem would go away.... in two years.

 

The better facilities, not hardly, sir. Many single A schools, Unaka, where my sons attend, is a typical example, have to actually play sub-state basketball games at other schools, due to lack of facilities.

 

More coaches? Unaka has two; and their head coach is also the head baseball coach. Oh, and he's also the assistant principal, and of course, the co-athletic director. So there goes a big part of Spring Training. The other coach? He teaches at another school. It's not like you just get out the coaches catalog and pick out a few more, then hire them.

 

Open zones? We have four county High Schools here, plus the City High School. I also know that if we could combine them for football purposes, we'd have a heck of a team. And isn't that essentially what happens with open zoning? What if we could pull all those football players into one county school, without having to take all the other students? That's essentially what happens with the privates, and in open zones.

 

We need a County-Wide football team here. Only want oh, say, fifty players; the best dozen from each county school. Better make it fifty-six players, due to the inevitable draw from the city school. Happy Valley, Cloudland, Unaka and Hampton's best players... now that's the kind of open zoning I can understand. You might be onto something there after all, Ego. :justwrestle:

[TheEgoHasLanded]

krich-

 

I don't know how old your son is, but let's pretend he is 12, and wants to attend a private school. He has never played football and is a decent sized kid...aka your son is average athletically (hey most people are right?)

 

The private school is not going to know how good your son is...most kids transfer in the 7th or 9th grade when elementary school or middle school ends. I did not get admitted to my school because of my athletic accompishments, actually when I was in the 7th grade, I wasn't very good in basketball, and didn't play football. I played football in the 8th grade and loved it and lettered in it three years as well as varsity basketball. I was only 5'7 or so as an 8th grader, and played center, not the most imposing person you've ever seen...I got admitted to the school cus I passed the test and my parents were willing to pay that much money for me to go there...not because the church of christ administartion was psychic and knew I could contribute in 6 years...

[krichunaka]

Ego,

Another good post. My son will graduate from our beloved Unaka this year, (2004). The good news is: he's wanted, and qualified academically at most of the Division 3 schools in the country (got a good banker friend?) He could've qualified at most of the privates, but hey, he's a Ranger, through and through. The other son is presently a sophomore; jury is still out on him.

And you made an excellent point about the unpredictability at such a young age (the age where most think kids are recruited). I think it's more a per-capita participation manisfestation than the fact that the kids are recruited, and personally I'd be all for open zones, especially when we consider that so many of the county school parents opt to send their kids to the city high school anyway.

 

Unaka, with 345 students, has much more athletic talent in their hallway than Cloudland, with the obviously exception to Byrd; but again, the participation percentage thing is hard to overcome. Winning would solve that dilemma at most of the rural schools; but the incentive isn't there. So many of those students don't aspire to higher education, thus the concern with becoming a "more rounded" person via participation in high school sports it not a primary consideration.

 

pujo has hit on the above a few times, and several have laughed at him; but he's right. Many of the rural kids have no interest in sports, a college education, etc.; so we can't ''blackmail'' them into playing sports. All we have to do is recognize the percentage of those who go on, and ultimately complete college, from private vs. public shcools. Again, good post.