Multiplier stupid, check the stats

[VolunteerGeneral]

FatCat...Let me ask you this. Where did you come up with a 60% figure for private schools and a 30% for public schools?

[gobigred]

The general rule is that the greater your student population, the greater the chance you will have more quality athletes. But, it doesn't guarantee that. Trousdale County is a perfect example of the exception. There are many factors (as you said) that determine the quality of the teams that come onto the field. That is why it is a rare team that continually dominates in the public schools. There are too many factors that can change. But, the one constant is the size of the pool from which they have to draw from.

 

On the other hand, the private schools don't face such a fluid situation in the types of kids they get in.  They have a pretty consistant high level of student athlete. 

 

OK FatCat, I'll bite. You say it is rare team that continually dominates in the public schools, and you mention Trousdale County as a rare exception.

 

How do you explain the perenneal strength of a few additional public school programs that come to mind? How do they do it?

 

Riverdale football

Maryville football

Milan football

South Pittsburg football

Shelbyville women's basketball

White Station men's basketball

Germantown baseball

 

I would suggest that the dominance you reference is not all that rare!

Edited February 12, 2004 by gobigred

[FatCat]

First,

 

VolGen, I am only assuming the stats posted on here previously are correct. If they aren't, then I'd like to know what they are.

 

GoBigRed,

 

You still have shown exceptions and not the rule. And, for most of those schools you listed, I would say that community pride and spirit go a long way to contributing to sustaining those situations. But, that is just one of many factors involved.

 

Now, if we all knew the answer as to how they did it, we would be MILLIONAIRES! I ask myself all the time about how do some of these guys do it. I have some thoughts, but nothing concrete.

 

Sometimes it is a VERY GOOD Coach who stays with that school for many, many years. An exceptional coach can produce winners no matter the talent or participation. Sometimes it is the "in thing" in the community that drives that sport.

 

But, here is a better question. What public schools consistantly perform well in ALL TSSAA sports? NONE!!! There are a lot of factors that I just touched on as to why a school might excel in ONE sport.......but NONE OF THEM do well in ALL SPORTS. On the contrary, the average private school excels in ALL SPORTS or MOST SPORTS.

 

If you can answer me that one, then you might have an argument!!!

[VolunteerGeneral]

OK FatCat, I'll bite.  You say it is rare team that continually dominates in the public schools, and you mention Trousdale County as a rare exception.

 

How do you explain the perenneal strength of a few additional public school programs that come to mind?  How do they do it?

 

Riverdale football

Maryville football

Milan football

South Pittsburg football

Shelbyville women's basketball

White Station men's basketball

Germantown baseball

 

I would suggest that the dominance you reference is not all that rare!

You forgot Ridgeway Soccer and Bradford Basketball.

 

Ya big dummy!

 

oops..my bad. Bradfords coach is now at Gibson County. Hmmm...Gibson County is now #1 in the state. Good coaching or just coincidence?

Edited February 12, 2004 by VolunteerGeneral

[wardawg2038]

I will bite there gobigred. continually dominant? when was Trousdale"s last state title? When was South Pittsburg's ? I know that one 1999. Also in 2000 the year after South Pittsburg went 1-9 (0-10 after the forfiet).

[VolunteerGeneral]

I will bite there gobigred. continually dominant? when was Trousdale"s last state title? When was South Pittsburg's ? I know that one 1999. Also in 2000 the year after South Pittsburg went 1-9 (0-10 after the forfiet).

Are we using state titles for qualifiers? Then just leave USJ in 1A then cause they ain`t never won a state title. In fact there are only 2 1A privates that have EV ER won more than 1 state championship.

[gobigred]

Sometimes it is a VERY GOOD Coach who stays with that school for many, many years. An exceptional coach can produce winners no matter the talent or participation. Sometimes it is the "in thing" in the community that drives that sport.

 

Yep, that is the key to success at many private schools also!

 

But, here is a better question. What public schools consistantly perform well in ALL TSSAA sports? NONE!!! There are a lot of factors that I just touched on as to why a school might excel in ONE sport.......but NONE OF THEM do well in ALL SPORTS. On the contrary, the average private school excels in ALL SPORTS or MOST SPORTS.

 

If you can answer me that one, then you might have an argument!!!

 

There are seldom any private schools in the state that could compete with the best public basketball and baseball programs. In fact there would seldom be a private school that would even be in the top ten (all classifications included) in the state in these sports on a consistent basis.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Fatcat....Those stats came from Earl Nall. Here is the article.

 

http://www.thedailytimes.com/sited/story/html/153911

 

Have you read it? That was what I was responding to in another thread that you got uptight about. I see no reference in Earl Nall`s qoutes that he makes any differentiation as to what public schools he is talking about. It does not state that he is only talking about 1A publics. It just says "public" schools. That makes a huge difference in what you are arguing. It also doesn`t specify whether he is talking about only Div.I privates or all privates. That makes a big difference too. Take time to read and be informed before you question what I post. Decide how you want to interpret Nall`s stats and then go from there.

[gobigred]

I will bite there gobigred. continually dominant? when was Trousdale"s last state title? When was South Pittsburg's ? I know that one 1999. Also in 2000 the year after South Pittsburg went 1-9 (0-10 after the forfiet).

FatCat used Trousdale as an example. South Pitt's over all success rate compares well with that of TC, so if you disagree with the examples, argue with FatCat.

[FatCat]

Phewww.....

 

A lot to catch up on......

 

For WarDawg, I started to go down the road you did about South Pitt, etc., but there is no logic in it. There isn't a single private school who has dominated at the level you are talking about. My whole arguement is on "the average private school" vs. "the average public school".

 

Now, GoBigRed, privates may not be able to compete against "the best" in the state in basketball and baseball, but when competing against schools of like size, they absolutely can and do. And, what is your definition of "compete". Does it mean you can't "compete" if you aren't competitive for a region title every year? If so, that is a pretty high standard! I would argue a .500 team is competitive at any level.

 

QUOTE (FatCat @ Feb 11 2004 - 06:16 PM)

Sometimes it is a VERY GOOD Coach who stays with that school for many, many years. An exceptional coach can produce winners no matter the talent or participation. Sometimes it is the "in thing" in the community that drives that sport.

 

Yep, that is the key to success at many private schools also!

 

Yes, it is. Now, answer this. Knowing that he has the option to coach at MBA for a decent salary and he doesn't have to teach, do you think Jeff Rutledge would ever coach at a public school where he would have to teach and make not very much money? Again, there are always exceptions to the rule, but what percentage of private schools have good coaches (and why) and what percentage of public schools do (and why)?

 

And, BigRed, don't get me wrong. I have stated before that I like playing against schools such as DCA, David Lipscomb, etc. It gives our guys something to shoot for to improve themselves. Our football team has scheduled private schools to play in the non-region portion of their schedule for several years. It is fun to compete with them. But, no matter how much fun it is....it is not fair to compete with them for titles if we are the same size. However, we are bigger population-wise, so I think it evens the field A LITTLE....but not completely. So, imagine our delite last year when we lost to David Lipscomb at every level of the Girls Softball Playoffs until the state tournament where we beat them out for the state championship.

 

VolGen, the first statement you made that I quoted did not need me to refer to Earl Nall's article. You said that participation rates should have nothing to do with classification. The part about 60% v. 30% is the second quote. I read that article when it first came out. I thought you had some info that might discount his statistic, but you don't. It does matter what the 1A percentage of participation is instead of all public schools. But, I infer from the article that we have pretty even participation rates, no matter the classification, for public schools.

 

The bottom line is that participation rates matter a great deal in this argument!!! But, it is not the only factor involved. The multiplier just makes the situation better, but it does not address the PROBLEM. The problem is we have apples competing against oranges.

[FatCat]

Yes, it is. Now, answer this. Knowing that he has the option to coach at MBA for a decent salary and he doesn't have to teach, do you think Jeff Rutledge would ever coach at a public school where he would have to teach and make not very much money? Again, there are always exceptions to the rule, but what percentage of private schools have good coaches (and why) and what percentage of public schools do (and why)?

 

Again, I would like to see if you think public schools should perform as well academically as private schools. Based on your arguments, the performance of public schools on standardized tests should be the same as that of private schools. But it is not and it will never be!!!

 

WOW.....it has gotten obscenely quiet in this thread!

[CSense]

 

 

WOW.....it has gotten obscenely quiet in this thread!

I agree , looks like the dunce cap is on the other head now.