Multiplier stupid, check the stats

[lazarus]

"looks like the dunce cap is on the other head now"

 

you'd be surprised how quickly we could all change caps. the second biggest lie we tell ourselves is that we, in someone else's situation, would behave differently. truth is, we dont know how we will actually handle any situation until we actually face it. while individuals may vary, human nature is immutable. think about it. what we are told, from both sides, is that if they were in the other side's position, no problem would exist. why, the public guys (in the privates shoes) would have voluntarily jumped up multiple classes, if not split outright. and the private guys (in public shoes) would have taken their beatings with a smile. why they'd have probably petitioned BA to play in 1-A because of their student population. dont know about you, but it sounds kind of improbable to me.

if we took every person involved in this "debate" and went back in time and placed them on the other side from the outset, everything would have happened just the same way, and the posts would look just the same. except vol-gen would be pujo. csense would be itzme. beethoven would be baldcoach. cns eagles would be realgo. and so on. while i like to think i would be someone like baldcoach or bighurt or one of the other cpa boys, i would probably just be another meohmymy.

 

oh, and dont you want to know the first biggest lie we tell ourselves?

"my kid wouldnt do that!"

[82cat]

I have read all the post and have been following this for many years. The problem is no one can discuss this without painting one side as bad or unfair when really the advantage privates have is not their fault they are a product of ther own sucess.

 

Let me see if I can give my reasons why this advantage for privates happens and it is not complicated.

 

They can get their players from a wide geographic area and are not limited as public schools are as to who is zoned for that school. I know many are going to say publics get zone exemptions etc ,while that is true they are few and far between anymore and while it happens , just think private schools never have to worry if you want to play for Brentwood Academy etc there are many ways for you to go. If you live in the Overton zone just try to go to lets say Smyrna, you can't do it but you can get aid etc and go to Brentwood Academy especially if you are a great athlete. Once again this does not make Brentwood Academy evil or a cheater, by their very sucess they attract great athletes. That leaves the question of what to do about the advantage this creates I honestly don't believe even private supporters would argue that they don't have some advantage. How to even it out is the question.

 

This is not new it started down this trail years ago when Brentwood Academy was playing in AA and went down to Loretto to play a little country team that just happened to have a good group of kids come through and I believe may have even been undefeated. Brentwood A beat them like a drum it was like 40 0r 50 to 0 or something like that. The prinicipal at Loretto was furious and said he would do everything he could to make sure that did not happen again. He felt it was unfair for a team of homegrown kids from a radius of a few miles from the school to have to play a team with players from as far away as Georgia. Later this prinicipal was a leading player in the TSSAA board of control and he pushed for the split and evetually got it.

 

I am a public school parent but I think private schools are treated like cheaters etc when in reality they are only doing what they are established to do which is attract the best students, athletes or whatever.

 

There is an advantage for privates how to make it even is the question

[beethoven]

"looks like the dunce cap is on the other head now"

 

you'd be surprised how quickly we could all change caps. the second biggest lie we tell ourselves is that we, in someone else's situation, would behave differently. truth is, we dont know how we will actually handle any situation until we actually face it. while individuals may vary, human nature is immutable. think about it. what we are told, from both sides, is that if they were in the other side's position, no problem would exist. why, the public guys (in the privates shoes) would have voluntarily jumped up multiple classes, if not split outright. and the private guys (in public shoes) would have taken their beatings with a smile. why they'd have probably petitioned BA to play in 1-A because of their student population. dont know about you, but it sounds kind of improbable to me.

if we took every person involved in this "debate" and went back in time and placed them on the other side from the outset, everything would have happened just the same way, and the posts would look just the same. except vol-gen would be pujo. csense would be itzme. beethoven would be baldcoach. cns eagles would be realgo. and so on. while i like to think i would be someone like baldcoach or bighurt or one of the other cpa boys, i would probably just be another meohmymy.

 

oh, and dont you want to know the first biggest lie we tell ourselves?

"my kid wouldnt do that!"

baldcoach is the.....

 

anti-beethoven???

 

and I am the....

 

anti-baldcoach (or am I mystylpik to superman)

 

 

Edited February 13, 2004 by beethoven

[FatCat]

82cat,

 

You are absolutely right. So, let me clarify something......

 

 

I am in no way, shape, or form saying that private schools cheat. I am just saying they are DIFFERENT. I believe that competing with them is fine, as long as it is not for the same championship.

 

I would rather see a system where the Public Champions play the Private Champions in a series of games. To me, that would be great football.....regardless if privates would dominate or not......it is a scrimmage for bragging rights that would have nothing to do with actual championships.

[82cat]

I wasn't adressing anyone in particular. I believe there is enough of an advantage for privates that in most cases will never be leveled.As a previous poster said and I agree if you build it they will come . My choice would be for a complete split. I have had several sons play high school football over the years and have never played a private school. In these years I have seen a lot of good teams with great competiton and atmosphere. I guess in a sense My experience has already been seperated from privates.

 

Once again I don't mean this as mean spirited towards privates I do not think they are evil or cheat and they do what they are designed to do.

 

Maybe its time to say we have differences that can not be over come and move on.

 

If I was a private I would jump on the multiplier and take a view from the underdog side for a while and when I won it would make it much sweeter.

[CSense]

82cat,

 

You are absolutely right. So, let me clarify something......

 

 

I am in no way, shape, or form saying that private schools cheat. I am just saying they are DIFFERENT. I believe that competing with them is fine, as long as it is not for the same championship.

 

I would rather see a system where the Public Champions play the Private Champions in a series of games. To me, that would be great football.....regardless if privates would dominate or not......it is a scrimmage for bragging rights that would have nothing to do with actual championships.

This one gets the Pulitzer prize as far as I'm concerned.

[mustang69]

It seems to me that the "pool" argument and the "participation" argument should be mutually exclusive in some cases.

 

After all, if someone is claiming that it is an advantage to have a large pool of students to choose from then aren't they really claiming that the advantage is in the POTENTIAL players and not in the players themselves? BUT, if the advantage actually is in the number of players who participate on the field, doesn't that imply that the potential isn't the real advantage but that the actual is?

 

What about small privates who don't have very many players? Do they still have an advantage because of their pool?

 

What about small, non-open zoned publics who have a lot of players? Are they still at a disadvantage because they have a smaller pool of potential athletes (note I still think the whole pool thing is baloney...just using others' points here).

 

Sounds like trying to have your disadvantage and eat it too to me...

A private schools "pool" as you call it does not have boundaries.......

 

I live in Huntingdon, you might have heard of us......

 

We are located approx 40 miles away from Jackson, TN.....

 

Home of the USJ Bruins......

 

Open zoned public schools such as Milan do have an unfair advantage over closed zone schools such as Huntingdon....

 

But I don't see advertisements in my county paper seeking students to "come to Milan for educational and athletic opportunities"..........

 

BUT I DO SEE THOSE ADS FROM USJ EVERY FRIGGIN WEEK!!!!!!

 

I wonder if they are targeting all surrounding towns or counties within a 50 mile radius, or maybe is it because Huntingdon just won a state championship in football and are hoping to pick up some transfers that just happen to play a little football too?

[VolunteerGeneral]

Mustang...Just curious here. Where do you see those ads every week? For some reason I think you are exagerating a bit. Care to give me some more info?

 

Honestly...I don`t think USJ advertises every week in the Huntingdon newspaper. I live in Jackson and I don`t even see USJ ads every week, so would you care to explain how you do?

[Rebelwithoutapplause]

Maybe Mustang's talking about the recent newspaper article

that ran in the Jackson Sun about the 12 National Merit Awards

from USJ this year, or maybe the article in the Sun on the Toughman

contest and USJ senior Michael Pappis being the youngest participant.

They did mention in the toughman article that Michael was All State

in football for USJ. These ads wanting athletes must be in the

want ad section, like VG I also have not seen them. I have seen a

couple of Open House ads but the smart kids got the

recognition ( as they should have). In the past 5 years USJ has

won 3 state championships in baseball and that did not make the ads.

BTW there were only I believe 16 National Merit Awards in the

Jackson-Madison County area and 12 of them came from USJ.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Maybe Mustang's talking about the recent newspaper article

that ran in the Jackson Sun about the 12 National Merit Awards

from USJ this year, or maybe the article in the Sun on the Toughman

contest and USJ senior Michael Pappis being the youngest participant.

They did mention in the toughman article that Michael was All State

in football for USJ. These ads wanting athletes must be in the

want ad section, like VG I also have not seen them. I have seen a

couple of Open House ads but the smart kids got the

recognition ( as they should have). In the past 5 years USJ has

won 3 state championships in baseball and that did not make the ads.

BTW there were only I believe 16 National Merit Awards in the

Jackson-Madison County area and 12 of them came from USJ.

I doubt very seriously that mustang will respond with an answer that validates his statement. If his answer is the Jackson Sun, then his post is merely whining, since Jackson is the local paper here. They can`t help it if it is circulated in Huntingdon (or Bucksnort for that matter..Maybe they are trying to get all the athletes from Bucksnort or from Finger maybe) Even at that, USJ doesn`t advertise that often..

[mustang69]

O.K I tell you what you do.....

 

Call the Carroll News Leader Monday and ask them if USJ has been running advertisements in the Carroll County newspaper......

 

Then you can get on here Monday night and apologize for basically calling me a liar....

 

Your a fine one to say someone is whining by the way.......

 

WWAAAAAHHHHH....IF THIS MULTIPLIER PASSES JCM WILL HAVE TO START PLAYING THE SCHOOLS IT SHOULD BE PLAYING TO BEGIN WITH.....WWWWAAAAAHHHH......WE WILL HAVE TO START TAKING OUR ANNUAL BUTT KICKING FROM GERMANTOWN AGAIN......CRY ME A HANDFULL.

[VolunteerGeneral]

O.K I tell you what you do.....

 

Call the Carroll News Leader Monday and ask them if USJ has been running advertisements in the Carroll County newspaper......

 

Then you can get on here Monday night and apologize for basically calling me a liar....

 

Your a fine one to say someone is whining by the way.......

 

WWAAAAAHHHHH....IF THIS MULTIPLIER PASSES JCM WILL HAVE TO START PLAYING THE SCHOOLS IT SHOULD BE PLAYING TO BEGIN WITH.....WWWWAAAAAHHHH......WE WILL HAVE TO START TAKING OUR ANNUAL BUTT KICKING FROM GERMANTOWN AGAIN......CRY ME A HANDFULL.

So they will tell me they advertise every week in that paper?

 

 

WWAAAAAHHHHH....IF THIS MULTIPLIER PASSES JCM WILL HAVE TO START PLAYING THE SCHOOLS IT SHOULD BE PLAYING TO BEGIN WITH.....WWWWAAAAAHHHH......WE WILL HAVE TO START TAKING OUR ANNUAL BUTT KICKING FROM GERMANTOWN AGAIN......CRY ME A HANDFULL.

 

What`s up with you Mustang? Nobody whining here. A multiplier will leave JCM in 4A. I have said in the past that a split would have put JCM back in 5A, which would put them playing back in a Memphis region. That was only in response to those who insisted that a split would not affect 4A and 5A. I was just setting the record straight.