Soccer

[CYJacket]

hello stan,

 

sorry i havent responded to your question.

this is a really busy time of year for me.

 

my comment was overstated, i was just trying to be a t-gen. but overstated doesnt mean there was no truth to it. in my mind, the results indicate that advantages exist, and there has been much discussion on here about what those advantages are.

 

i think there are a number of different factors involved.

some have attributed it to urban-rural differences, and have some convincing evidence to back it up.

others have said money is the reason. i think money is an important factor. (i know the private guys are going to say "we arent rich". true, but take a ride thru coalfield some day. you are richer than you think).

coaching-no doubt coaching is a factor, and a big one. but coaches who have been at both types of schools tend to have had a lot more success at private schools.

there is the "R" word. there is no avoiding that argument. technically, every kid in a private school is "recruited". if i opened a private school and told no one about it, no one would come.

and there are plenty more factors. i think they all play a part, and none of them are predominant.

 

i think it is a matter of distribution. if you look at the families that send kids to our school, there are a percentage who come from families who do not speak english. there will be pretty much no athletes from those. we have a percentage who come from families with shockingly low incomes. pretty much no athletes from those. some families basically are opposed to sports. no athletes from those. there are families who will not take kids to practice, will not pay for camps, or shoes, or any other equipment, who only send their kids to school because the law requires it. precious few athletes from those. we have kids with mental handicaps, physical handicaps, and so forth. no athletes there. in the end, our effective enrollment for sports purposes is about 25% of the listed number. private schools have a very different distribution. and if they emphasize sports it will skew even further. i see single a enrollment private schools who can platoon in football. if we could FORCE every prospective player onto the team, we couldnt platoon.

 

think of it this way. the titans organization consists of how many people? i doubt it is much over a hundred. pick any factory with 5 times the number of employees, and they could not field a team that could play football with the titans. not even this year!

 

but this thread is about minor sports. in this case soccer. the small rural schools do not have the resources to field real teams in minor sports. there are no developmental programs. the kids are introduced to the sport in school. there are no experienced, knowledgable coaches. it is hard enough for a small school to come up with major sport coaches from the existing faculty. they have to rely heavily on what volunteers might show up. there are limited facilities. soccer, at least, can get by with a field. volleyball would need gym time in a facility already in use from early morning until night. and there is no money. the major sports already fund-raise the few willing donors to death. and the problem is exacerbated by the current divisions. in the rare event that a small school has some of the resources (maybe an actual coach with a background in a minor sport) to field a representative team, they would just be crushed by the larger schools and existing strong private programs until they gave up.

 

i dont know if this is what you were asking. but it is the best i could do in a short time.

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"(i know the private guys are going to say "we arent rich". true, but take a ride thru coalfield some day. you are richer than you think)."

Or better yet through Petros where some of the feeder kids come from, not to disparage the folks in that area of Morgan Co. but the median income there is about $15K per year.

[BigG]

Ok, new thought on the same thread.... Is the disparity of small sport "domination" by private schools equal to the large sport "domination" by public schools? I think when we multiply by 1.8, we will struggle more in basketball and football. Is there 2 sides to this coin? The reason I ask, is that I don't know about large sport stats in state. I figured one of you guys would know...

[lazarus]

sorry bigex,

 

there isnt any public domination in the major sports. just the opposite, those are also dominated by the privates. some individual privates may struggle, but the upper echelon are walking all over the publics. look for this forum to light back up (about saturday) for just that reason!

 

i just think the situation is different in the minor sports. there are few if any small rural publics with representative teams, and little possibility of any developing such teams.

[BigG]

Thanks! Great stats about a tough topic. My question, is there a solution? Besides removal of private from public? Besides multiplying? Do the small schools even WANT to put forth the effort to improve. I am sure the athletes do, but what about the schools/coaches/parents? What can we do to help?

[lazarus]

speaking ONLY from my opinion,

i dont believe a solution is really needed.

there are no great number of athletes in the SRP desiring serious minor sports programs.

the SRP barely have enough serious athletes to cover the major sports.

and lets not even talk about money.

 

the minor sports spring up at SRP for various reasons.

title 9 is one. and the SRP have fewer female athletes than males. the addition of minor sports stretches the athlete pool to the breaking point for the girls.

another reason would be a handful of parents calling for the minor sports.

if school boards were not politicians (who cannot say no to anyone) there would be a lot fewer minor sports than there are.

 

the biggest appeal to the athletes is that the programs are not serious. the coaches generally have little exposure to the sport, or else are pure volunteers. for the players, there are all the benefits of playing a sport, without all that serious hard-work stuff. better still, it is a free pass from the offseason programs for the real sports.

 

is this 100%, probably not. but if there are 1 or 2 kids in a school who want to see a serious soccer program, they probably need to seek a place that has enough support to have one.

[CYJacket]

Thanks!  Great stats about a tough topic.  My question, is there a solution? Besides removal of private from public?  Besides multiplying?  Do the small schools even WANT to put forth the effort to improve.  I am sure the athletes do, but what about the schools/coaches/parents?  What can we do to help?

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All want to improve but it is a money issue. The public school system does not see this type stuff as a priority worthy of public funds expenditures (tax money). I know several 1a football programs that want and need an atheletic field house with a weight room, whirlpool, sauna, and film room. Instead they are relegataed to a classroom with a 27 inch television for film, a "weight room" inside the locker room where all the players can't workout together.

 

The public school boards and county commissions/city councils will not appropriate money for atheletics in public schools and they are therefore required to depend on admissions where some gates and concessions only bring in average of $7000.00 per game or $25K to $35k in football, and participation fees are not allowed. When insurance, uniforms, and equipment is purchased that just about eats the budget up for extras, then what is left over goes to the other two sports (because that is usually all they play as Laz illustrated).

[lazarus]

what happens when i have to rush to get in a post is that i usually write things that sound harsh and insulting. maybe there is more t-gen in me than i want to admit.

 

the schools would like to do better, as cyjaquet said. the coaches are going to do their best, that is how coaches are. but when you have coaches whose team plays the first game they have ever seen (forget coaches who played) with a team of players who never played before high school, there are serious limits to what can be accomplished. not having any money just closes the deal.

 

not that what i said before isnt basically true.

[BDURHAM]

lazarus,

 

Thank you for the feedback. Great insight with strong logic. One of the best explanations I have read on the subject.

[DBLENTENDRE]

"Another ignorant post. ...playing in single a is pure and simple cherry-picking. if we do no more than an adequate job with our resources, we can beat most of the 1-A publics. if we give anything over a half effort we can beat them all. ......

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Would you like for me to give you the home number where you can schedule a football game with Trousdale County next year?

 

I think you're still dead from the shoulders up......

[DBLENTENDRE]

......the coaches are going to do their best, that is how coaches are. but when you have coaches whose team plays the first game they have ever seen (forget coaches who played) with a team of players who never played before high school, there are serious limits to what can be accomplished. not having any money just closes the deal.

 

not that what i said before isnt basically true.

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....you're just digging your 2nd grave.....

[rigger101]

Out of 8 teams in the A/AA state tournament, 7 were private schools.

Out of 4 teams in the A/AA semi-finals, 4 were private schools.

The championship game was between 2 private schools.

 

Soccer is just another sport that is being taken over in the smaller division by the private schools.

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Farragut is public!

[BigG]

Farragut is public!

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Farragut is not in A/AA.