cookeville fans?

[Shavonda]

I was made aware of this discussion this morning and felt the need to chime in on the subject. There are a lot of claims being made on both sides of this argument so I felt the need to weigh in from a coaching standpoint. Yes I am a basketball coach in Tennessee. It may be very un PC of me to do this but occasionally I get disgruntled at people who "know the real story". Cookeville High School is widely considered one of the most chronic underachieving teams throughout the state of Tennessee. When one of the "big boys" in the state want a win they know they can get, they schedule Cookeville. This is commonly accepted among coaches in the state. They know the team is likely to have several really good players on the team but that they will always find a way to lose the game, be it through coaching the majority of the time. Coach Bray will routinely "give up" if his teams fall behind and coaches know this. However, Cookeville does typically win 20 + games a year. AS THEY SHOULD! They also have approximately 15 automatic wins on the schedule every season. They perform well in the regular season and are guaranteed to fold in the post season. Two season ago, Cookeville had what was considered one of the best starting 5 units throughout the state of Tennessee. The Payne kid was their 5th starter for Christ sake! That team lost to Cumberland County twice that year! I remember speaking to a coach from the Chattanooga area and him saying " if I had 4 of those players, we could make a run at state"! I speak for a few college level coaches when I say that Coach Bray did nothing to assist a single player of his to get to the next level. The fact that the Roper and Ledbetter kids are not playing college basketball somewhere is an absolute and direct knock on him as a coach. I spoke with a college coach from the east Tennessee area and he told me he made several attempts to reach out regarding the Roper kid and never got a single response from the coach. There were 2 coaches from colleges in Kentucky that told me they inquired about Ledbetter only to be told not to waste their time because he did not want to play. If this was the case, it should have been left up to him and his family to pass that along instead of Coach Bray stopping the process in its tracks. Maybe 3 or 4 seasons ago, a team from the southeast part of the state simply refused to schedule his teams again when  it was found out that he directly lied about transportation issues regarding getting his players to a game. I could say these things about a lot of coaches in the state. A lot of them are in the business for the wrong reasons. I am not saying Coach is a bad man but he routinely under performs, his players typically never go on to play at the next level, and where there is smoke, there will be fire. That many kids do not leave a program in one summer without cause. And there is very much some truth to the rumor surrounding the assistant that departed. While I cannot speak directly about a unwritten promise in place for him to take over or anything of that nature, I can speak with a great deal of certainty that there was something to that. Under Brays tenure there have been numerous players that should have moved on to college basketball. Roper, Ledbetter, Henderson (at some level), Hill should have received a scholarship instead of being a walk-on. The kid last year, Mason, was not his. He transferred in and the family was on top of things enough to make that happen. The Case kid from a couple years ago had some interest from a few schools but received no feedback from the coach when inquiries were made. I have heard some nightmare details about the Payne kid that left regarding coaching and lack of assistance. I can not for the life of me make sense of how you stand back and let Schrum brothers (that are solid and major contributors) just walk. Then you lose a back-up PG in Phillips, that should be garnering much more playing time, to a border county rival! Payne is a possible Division 1 player at the right school, matter of fact, I think he has division 1 offers. The younger Schrum brother is a naia player at the right school. It is just not a good situation. Then an assistant leaves. Look, that assistant will be the bigger man and handle it in a PC manner, but do not be blind to the mass of personnel they lost. That does not happen by accident or coincidence. It will be an intriguing season in Cookeville. I expect White County to RUN away with the district!  Stone will be down considerably, Cookeville will be a shell of what could have been, and no other team in the district is worth mention. With Yoder, Simmons, and Payne gone, no one in that district will be able to contain Henderson. He will have a massive season. Sparkman was spot on regarding undefeated freshmen champs. This years team should have been one that made pushes and noise. Not now. Coach Bray will continue to misuse his players. He has a small pocket of talent left but it will likely be be wasted.

I really do appreciate this post cause I have said all those things about Bray the whole time. I just didn't understand why no offers was given to Roper and the other considering how well of ball players they where. I will also add that yes John Payne has had offers and I feel like if I would of kept him in Cookeville he would of never been aware of those, but me and his dad has also put in work ourselves to put his name out there. John did all the work on the court. I really feel like he didn't have the support that he should of had from teammates or the head coach. If it wasn't for us as in me his mother and his dad and the other family support he would have no self esteem they tear you down to nothing, and make you believe your nothing. Bray never pushed them to the next level. I feel as a mother that he always wanted them to remain the same and never move on. The other player leave cause of other sports and they make them feel important and never put them down. They are a team and you could never feel like a team playing basketball cause its like they are all divided. Where John is now they have welcomed him and is preparing him to go on to the next level with basketball and education and as a mother I feel the decisions I have made for him was the best, so again I would like to thank you for your comment.  

[Shavonda]

all I can do is laugh at this stuff

 

As for the original question... Yes, apparently both Shrum brothers have transferred back to UHS... although I can't see how they would be eligible, but I am not a tssaa rules expert. 

 

Phillips transferred to JCHS.  He will probably start for them, but in no game last year did I see him ready to start for Cookeville. JMO.  

 

Payne did transfer to goodpasture.  I believe he went to live with his dad.  

 

 

All this Cookeville should go to state all the time is just nonsense.  What UC man and alot of others forget, is that we have very similar talent to other teams in the UC.. but yes, we have more of it.  That still doesn't stand up to the likes of murfreesboros and sometimes the chattanoga teams who also have alot of students, and BETTER talent.  Its like this, we may have 5 guys who are 7/10.  but a boro or good chat team may have 4 guys at 8,9/10 and a couple more at 7/10, etc...    There have been 2 maybe 3 teams since the current coach Bray has been here that have even had a remote shot at state, and that would have had to have some good luck and great play.  

Payne did go to Good Pasture to live with his dad because of the things that Cookeville didn't do, and that was the my decision if Cookeville would of been doing what was needed then he would of still been there, but no I feel like they wanted him to fail and not move on to what he likes best play college basketball. Its may take him a little more time than needed but by any means he will make that happen.

[Stopthepress]

I only deal with factual information. Fact: I am not a disgruntled parent. Fact: I do not coach in the district. Fact: A school in Chattanooga will not schedule Cookeville anymore because of an issue with him being misleading regarding team transportation that WAS brought up before the TSSAA 3 years ago. Fact: 2 college coaches in Tennessee told me directly that they could not get any feed back from Bray regarding 2 former players and they attempted many times. One of them was sitting in my living room discussing a player of mine for recruiting when this topic came up. Fact: when this mentioned coach approached one of the players, the player knew nothing of interest from the school. Fact: Roper, Ledbetter, Hill, Bates, Payne, Case, Henderson. All of these kids had serious interest from colleges. Some never received the information. All should have or should play college ball at some level and on a scholarship. Only Bates and Payne will do so. And in neither case will it be or was it because of any direct involvement from Bray. Richmond and Schrum both have outside shots at it at the right schools. In response to your comment about Cookeville having 7/10 type players, Fact:  According to a rival website, only 5 teams in the entire state had two or more players on the same team ranked in the top 100 players in the state last season. Cookeville was one of those 5. Fact: Cookeville has been one of the largest schools in the state for years and top 3 for the last several years. They have plenty of talent to choose from. Period. Fact: they play in a very weak district. Aside from White County and now Stone. They should win that district routinely. Fact: while they have had some success, they have underachieved. 2012-2013 2 losses to a bad Cumberland Co team, one of which was in the district tourney. 2013-2014 2 losses to a less talented Clarkrange team. Fact: Numerous high school coaches from Cookeville to Johnson City, had Cookeville as the team to beat coming into the 2014-2015 season. This is not up for your debate. This was actual facts. Not opinions. Fact: I do this for a living. I have been at the high school and college levels in this state. I am fairly certain that I am a little more aware of what is being said from a collegiate level regarding Cookeville and the state for that matter. If you want to discuss opinions and gossip, which you seem interested in doing, I could do that as well. Like how the Carver kid was set to transfer to Jackson County also. In fact, it was nearly a done deal and being directly blamed on Bray, or how a set of parents directly caught Bray in a lie regarding a college coaches evaluation of their kid. Fact: Bray is not a bad man. He is not evil. He is just a coach that has lost his way and maybe even his love of the game and teaching. That is all. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by Stopthepress

[Shavonda]

I only deal with factual information. Fact: I am not a disgruntled parent. Fact: I do not coach in the district. Fact: A school in Chattanooga will not schedule Cookeville anymore because of an issue with him being misleading regarding team transportation that WAS brought up before the TSSAA 3 years ago. Fact: 2 college coaches in Tennessee told me directly that they could not get any feed back from Bray regarding 2 former players and they attempted many times. One of them was sitting in my living room discussing a player of mine for recruiting when this topic came up. Fact: when this mentioned coach approached one of the players, the player knew nothing of interest from the school. Fact: Roper, Ledbetter, Hill, Bates, Payne, Case, Henderson. All of these kids had serious interest from colleges. Some never received the information. All should have or should play college ball at some level and on a scholarship. Only Bates and Payne will do so. And in neither case will it be or was it because of any direct involvement from Bray. Richmond and Schrum both have outside shots at it at the right schools. In response to your comment about Cookeville having 7/10 type players, Fact: Only 5 teams in the entire state had two or more players on the same team ranked in the unapproved website top 100 last season. Cookeville was one. Fact: Cookeville has been one of the largest schools in the state for years and top 3 for the last several years. They have plenty of talent to choose from. Period. Fact: they play in a very weak district. Aside from White County and now Stone. They should win that district routinely. Fact: while they have had some success, they have underachieved. 2012-2013 2 losses to a bad Cumberland Co team, one of which was in the district tourney. 2013-2014 2 losses to a less talented Clarkrange team. Fact: Numerous high school coaches from Cookeville to Johnson City, had Cookeville as the team to beat coming into the 2014-2015 season. This is not up for your debate. This was actual facts. Not opinions. Fact: I do this for a living. I have been at the high school and college levels in this state. I am fairly certain that I am a little more aware of what is being said from a collegiate level regarding Cookeville and the state for that matter. If you want to discuss opinions and gossip, which you seem interested in doing, I could do that as well. Like how the Carver kid was set to transfer to Jackson County also. In fact, it was nearly a done deal and being directly blamed on Bray, or how a set of parents directly caught Bray in a lie regarding a college coaches evaluation of their kid. Fact: Bray is not a bad man. He is not evil. He is just a coach that has lost his way and maybe even his love of the game and teaching. That is all. 

Agree!!!! I don't think nobody could of said that better.

[Stopthepress]

Also, Alumn89, I find it very interesting that you say everyone is incorrect or a fiction writer. If it were just one person, I could see your point. If it were two, I would question it a little, but there are numerous people saying these things. So your claims of my being a disgruntled parent or a district coach could in turn be met with you being a misinformed homer! 

[Alumn89]

haha, misinformed.  right.   Fact: none of you, or me, are on the team, or in the locker room, etc to know exactly what goes on.  I have coached before as well and parents think what they want to think.   Then they spread these things and everyone takes it as truth.  

 

As far as colleges and stuff, sure, for all I know you could be Donnie Tyndall, I'm sure you have a better grasp of that... But here is another fact for you:  not all of those kids you mentioned wanted to play college ball.  And I know at least one didn't want to play if it wasn't at the D1 level.  Oh, didn't tell that story did we?  I mean all this crap is heresay... what I'm saying, what you are saying, what Shovanda is saying... I'm not sure what the point is.  

 

Again, Cookeville has never been to the state tournament in basketball....NEVER.... so slamming Bray for not making it with all of these """"great"""" teams is ridiculous.  Fact of the matter is, Cookeville has never, and doesn't have the talent.  We can argue that all you want... 

 

How do I seem to want to discuss opinion and gossip and you dont?? I actually want to stop the opinion and gossip.  you are the one who just brought in another player's name to this thread... ]

 

Since we are dealing in fact, who are the two college coaches who couldn't get information? 

 

Who is the chatt team that got hurt by the lies bray told them? And what were those lies exactly?

 

What set of parents got directly lied too? Details ? 

 

You are a very interesting man (or woman)  with alot of knowledge. It is impressive. 

 

All of that that you brought up in your previous post.... that is gossip... and it raises questions like those.  Please don't answer these... just trying to make you see what you are doing.  By calling these things facts and providing no other evidence, like names, it is gossip.  

 

I can say that last night a very in-the-know business man told me that Cookeville is getting a pro football team.  And it is a fact that he told me...  but you wouldn't believe me unless I put a name with that, you respected him, etc....

 

Edited August 14, 2014 by Alumn89

[Alumn89]

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Edited August 14, 2014 by Alumn89

[Alumn89]

"Only 5 teams in the entire state had two or more players on the same team ranked in the unapproved website top 100 last season. Cookeville was one. Fact: Cookeville has been one of the largest schools in the state for years and top 3 for the last several years. They have plenty of talent to choose from. Period."

 

1. I would love to see this website...   top 100 overall? I assuming you are talking about Payne/Bates.  Bates I could see top 100.  But no offense to Shovanda, I couldn't put Payne in the top 100 in the entire state of TN.  JMO, I'm sure you wont respect it. 

 

2. Cookeville High is the top 10 in the state in population.. TRUE!!!!I think they are 5th currently. 

 

3. More people doesn't always equal better talent... but I've said this already... sigh...

 

"Numerous high school coaches from Cookeville to Johnson City, had Cookeville as the team to beat coming into the 2014-2015 season. This is not up for your debate. This was actual facts. Not opinions. "

 

Who are said numerous coaches... interesting that you chose to go east with that to Johnson city...  Also I doubt anyone in the entire state of TN would put money on Cookeville being the "team to beat"  ... is that the state? BC if so, that is laughable.  

 

"I will also add that yes John Payne has had offers and I feel like if I would of kept him in Cookeville he would of never been aware of those,"

 

I was under the impression for years that a College coach will make an offer to the player... not his high school coach?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Alumn89

[Alumn89]

heard that lamb transferred to cookeville from white co. via dekalb co. 

 

I haven't heard that warrior... interesting.  

 

I'd be careful posting that information on here, ... you might get parents, and "coaches in the know" come on here and bash coach Mitchell.  Lol...  

 

Just a joke guys...

[Stopthepress]

I never said that any coach said Cookeville was the team to beat. I said they were set to make a deep run. So please get the information straight first. I did not, at any point say they should win state. I said they should have made more runs then they have. And they should have. As for the website, this website has it blocked and will literally not allow you to type the name in. It shows up as: unapproved website. You are more than welcome to try trial and error until you figure out which one. I am also very aware of the fact that a particular player did not want to play unless it was division 1. I also know that the very next year following his leaving, he made it very well known that he wished he had played somewhere. Hmmm. Seems like a good coach would have stressed that more. Also, your opinion is very accepted regarding the Payne kid but, in all fairness, there appear to be numerous college level coaches that couldn't disagree with you more as he is now being ranked in the top 50 by a few different TN based sites. Not too mention that at a high level tournament over this pass summer, he was offered by 3 division 1 colleges. I am not saying there haven't been other that shouldn't have been offered at that level, because there should have. But that only plays into my point. Bates and Roper should have gotten some. That alone shows me the level of knowledge you bring to the discussion. You mention one particular player didn't want to play unless it was division 1 and that Payne isn't a top 100 player. Roper, Hill, Bates and Payne were all considered top 100 players in Tennessee by a particular site and at least for the Roper and Payne kids, they both could have or will play at a division 1 level. And also, no one said the teams were great! Again, you are obviously allowing some form of emotion to be involved. Cookeville SHOULD be better. Period. You can think what you will of certain players, you can make what excuses you want. They should roll through that conference. Example, last season they beat Stone Memorial at home. Then they lose to Clarkrange at home a week later. They beat Cumberland Co at home in 13-14 by 30, then 2 weeks later get beat them when it mattered. Why do you have such a difficult time seeing what is in front of you?

[Alumn89]

"I never said that any coach said Cookeville was the team to beat."

uhhh....

 

"Fact: Numerous high school coaches from Cookeville to Johnson City, had Cookeville as the team to beat coming into the 2014-2015 season."

 

care to explain? 

 

Again, i'd love to know this website you speak of...  

 

Roper was not a D1 player... Would have been good at D2.   

 

Hey, look, more power to the Payne kid if he can get on somewhere D1 and play for 4 years.  That'd be awesome! 

 

The loss to clarkrange at home last year was without 2 starters. It is an excuse, but hey... Basketball is about matchups.  Clarkrange matched up really well.. were tall and packed in a matchup zone. Made cookeville shoot too many 3's which was a weakness.  

 

I have no trouble seeing at all , thank you very much.  20/20. How bout you?  Now, what is this website? I'd love to be blown away

[Stopthepress]

I can handle jokes and being made fun of. It is par for this course. That is fair game. But I will be brutally honest. I cannot speak for you, any Cookeville parents, Shavonda, Bray, Roper, Payne, Bates, or any other kid. I cannot speak for any of those kids parents. I can say I find it odd that Payne moves to Nashville at lands at Good Pasture of all places and the Schrums are in county and eligible. So my point there is that I can only speak for myself, someone that has made a living of evaluating and coaching high school basketball players. I can elaborate on what coaching peers in the state say. I can bring talent evaluation to the table on a high school and college level. There have been 3 Cookeville teams in particular that peers expected to make a run at state. I did not say win, but at the minimum, make a run to get there. None of them came close. This seasons team wont even step on the floor. Most are now gone. There have been 7 kids over the past 5 years that have had serious college looks. Only 2 have been seriously looked at or offered at the division 1 level. 2 others had an outside shot at that. Of the 8 teams in this years AAA state championship tourney, 3 of them didn't have a single division 1 player or prospect. So to say Cookeville did not have the talent to make a run is incorrect. They did. But they were inconsistent and poorly led. Inconsistent play is a direct reflection of coaching. You should know this. I can I can bring actual events that took place to the table and Bray got in trouble for an issue with a coach in Chattanooga. And I am now going to do something I typically would never do. But you felt the need to be classless and actually call out players and give positive/negative feedback on what you thought about them. I was stating issues with coaching. You actually made it personal about players by directly stating what you thought of players by name. So this is an obvious indication that you have a VERY direct tie to Bray and felt the need to defend what you think. Here are some more FACTS for you. Based on evaluation sites, coaches from other teams, AAU coaches, college coaches(at various levels), oh and Bray! He did give feedback on his players from time to time. Roper was a division 1 talent! Period, end of discussion. He should be playing somewhere now. Got zero assistance from Bray. Hill was a division 2 talent. Ledbetter was a division 2/naia talent. Could have made several college rosters. Henderson had several NAIA schools drooling over him after his senior year. Never received any feedback from one school in particular. Bates is a solid division 2 talent. He is at the perfect place for him. Basketball knowledge through the roof, he is a coach on the floor. Bray had nothing to do with helping him get recruited. Younger Schrum brother has a shot at making a naia roster somewhere if he continues to develop. Payne has more colleges looking at him than all of them combined, only other realistic division 1 scholarship player aside from Roper. Richmond has a shot of making a naia roster. Even the Barton kid could potentially do naia with the right coaching. These are REAL evaluations. Actual on paper. From people way smarter than you or I. So lets compare that. Wilson Central who by the way destroyed Cookeville this year, had 2 maybe a third potential college kid. Brentwood didn't have a single division 1 prospect. And for as good siegel was, not a single division 1 commit. Cookeville had the talent to compete. I promise you that.