OldDoc Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 How does two kids from a team who doesn't win their league or make it to the regionals make all state. If you look at the teams their are multiple schools who have more than one player that's a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlimbaugh Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Keep in mind this is the Coach's Association all-state. Sadly, not all coaches are members. This is the list generated from nominations from coaches who are members. I have seen a lot of the kids on this list play and I can assure you they are worthy of the recognition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatwhite1 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Post season individual accolades in HS should be taken with a grain of salt. Congrats to the guys who were recognized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Keep in mind this is the Coach's Association all-state. Sadly, not all coaches are members. This is the list generated from nominations from coaches who are members. I have seen a lot of the kids on this list play and I can assure you they are worthy of the recognition. Very true about not all the coach's are members of the association. One season I noticed that a player that was all state as a sophomore and junior did not make the team as a senior. The coach forgot to send in the recommendation. It happens and there is nothing that anyone can do so don't waste your time being upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlimbaugh Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 How does two kids from a team who doesn't win their league or make it to the regionals make all state. If you look at the teams their are multiple schools who have more than one player that's a joke. David Price never got out of the district or made the region. He turned out ok.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldDoc Posted July 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 David Price never got out of the district or made the region. He turned out ok.... yes he did was their two from his team that made it. If you truly have two All State players on your team you definately should get out do district in A or AA for sure and my opinion AAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksgovols Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Not if the coaches of other teams in the district aren't members of TBCA. I think that's the point. The other point is how in the heck would somebody in Memphis know who the best players in Elizabethton are anyway? I wouldn't get too worked up one way or the other. I guess the guy to be mad at is the coach that either didn't join the TBCA or didn't vote for the kid(s) you're interested in seeing on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawking Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I hate to say it but when coaches keep stats they tend to lie for their players. The only way for any voters to know what goes on around the state is to look at coach reported stats. Errors don't go down as errors, fielder's choice's don't end up as fielder's choice's in the score book. I think it would be interesting to compare score books at the end of the game. I watched a lot of baseball this year and actually watch one team 7 times just because it happened that way with where I went, but I have seen some stats reported of players on that team and there is no way the stats are right. To be right the young men would have had to of hit .950 in all other games. I think its coaches pushing who they want for player of the year in their district and until there is a fair impartial score keeper in those games the lies will continue. Don't forget the parents that keep score and their kid will go 4-4 all singles when they really didn't have 4 hits but rather 1 and 3 ROE then and never scores, when the kid that reaches on errors goes 0-4 but scores 4 times. Get some fairness for game reporting. Until then, enjoy this system we have for picking all state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelawking Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok, I fired myself up. Some of the coaches should be ashamed of the false reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlimbaugh Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 thelawking, biggest problem is a lot of parents and coaches do not know how to keep score correctly. But many a MLB or NCAA games will have scorekeeping decisions that make you shake your heard. Baseball is a game where you can always see something happen that you have never seen before. I have been keeping a book since 1969 Stratomatic games and I learn something new from time to time. NFHS Rule 9 covers scorekeeping high school games: https://www.goncso.com/rules/2012%20NFHS%20BASEBALL.pdf NCAA Rule 10 covers scorekeeping NCAA games: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball%20easy%20print%20stats%20manual.pdf MLB Rule 10: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp What you see as a passed ball or a wild pitch, another parent scores a stolen base. What I see as an E5 because a varsity third baseman has to make that play the hitter (and third baseman's) dad sees as a hit. Pitcher's dad might disagree You have some parents also think (and score) that if the batter reaches on a 6-4 force out that is a hit. I can assure you the statistics for Riverdale are legitimate. Some parents over the years have disagreed from time to time - LOL! But at Riverdale we keep the book during the game and then discuss various plays with coaches and players involved after the game and change any scoring decisions as needed. One more note on all-state teams. People may be surprised on just how many players coaches do get to see over the course of a season. Seeing a school for one day isn't a great judge of talent, a very small sample size. But when you see a Ben Revere of Lexington Catholic, KY for a game or Zach Cozart play shortstop for a game or recent Memphis 3rd baseman (awesome SS at Bartlett) Jacob Wilson play for a day they tend to stand out. Coaches talk to other other coaches about players they have seen and this IS the coaches all-state team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbg Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) thelawking, biggest problem is a lot of parents and coaches do not know how to keep score correctly. But many a MLB or NCAA games will have scorekeeping decisions that make you shake your heard. Baseball is a game where you can always see something happen that you have never seen before. I have been keeping a book since 1969 Stratomatic games and I learn something new from time to time. NFHS Rule 9 covers scorekeeping high school games: https://www.goncso.com/rules/2012%20NFHS%20BASEBALL.pdf NCAA Rule 10 covers scorekeeping NCAA games: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball%20easy%20print%20stats%20manual.pdf MLB Rule 10: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/official_scorer_10.jsp What you see as a passed ball or a wild pitch, another parent scores a stolen base. What I see as an E5 because a varsity third baseman has to make that play the hitter (and third baseman's) dad sees as a hit. Pitcher's dad might disagree You have some parents also think (and score) that if the batter reaches on a 6-4 force out that is a hit. I can assure you the statistics for Riverdale are legitimate. Some parents over the years have disagreed from time to time - LOL! But at Riverdale we keep the book during the game and then discuss various plays with coaches and players involved after the game and change any scoring decisions as needed. One more note on all-state teams. People may be surprised on just how many players coaches do get to see over the course of a season. Seeing a school for one day isn't a great judge of talent, a very small sample size. But when you see a Ben Revere of Lexington Catholic, KY for a game or Zach Cozart play shortstop for a game or recent Memphis 3rd baseman (awesome SS at Bartlett) Jacob Wilson play for a day they tend to stand out. Coaches talk to other other coaches about players they have seen and this IS the coaches all-state team. David...great job of explaining how most high school stats are not legitimate. Another thing to consider is that the deeper a team goes into the playoffs the lower a persons BA & OB% should be along with the ERA of pitchers inching higher due to playing better competition. Another issue one must consider is the level of competition a team faces during the high school regular season. Playing out of state teams and nationally ranked teams from California, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, etc...is much more difficult than playing the local teams within a 50 mile radius. The college coaching staffs are probably the best at picking the All-State teams because it's their job to find the best talent. Edited July 19, 2014 by cbg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlimbaugh Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 David...great job of explaining how most high school stats are not legitimate. Another thing to consider is that the deeper a team goes into the playoffs the lower a persons BA & OB% should be along with the ERA of pitchers inching higher due to playing better competition. Another issue one must consider is the level of competition a team faces during the high school regular season. Playing out of state teams and nationally ranked teams from California, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, etc...is much more difficult than playing the local teams within a 50 mile radius. The college coaching staffs are probably the best at picking the All-State teams because it's their job to find the best talent. What most parents and even players don't understand is that college coaches and amateur scouts are not results-driven. They don't care about statistics at all. They have a system that hasn't changed much since baseball started.. The 20-80 scale on tools. Some just use 2-8. Basically, college coaches and amateur scouts use a simple test, the eye test. I have been fortunate over the last 20 years or so to see a lot of high school players who passed the eye test. I didn't get to see these two in high school but I did get to see Bo Jackson make a throw from the foul pole to home in a minor league game once. That throw passed the eye test. I would have given Bo a higher rating on arm after seeing that throw.... http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/22212009/bo-jacksons-1985-scouting-report-hint-he-was-good-at-baseball http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/scouting-report-on-17-year-old-cal-ripken-jr-called-him-built-like-handsome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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