All Star, or popularity contest

[HTV]

What does an all-star game give a recruiter that film can't?  One would have a hard time convincing me that you can get a solid assessment on a kid through an all-star game.  If the game is for recruiting purposes, it's a sad state of affairs that next level coaches are relying on an all-star game.  If the purpose is to show case the kids that played the best at their respective positions (even though they may not be SEC or ACC type kids) again, the system is flawed as RedD stated.

 

It's not necessarily the game itself.  College coaches have a chance to come to practices and see the kids in person and talk to them.  Video is great, but there is nothing like seeing them in person, and seeing them in an all star environment against other like players is something that you may not be able to see on video.  Competition level varies so much from week to week that highlight videos sometimes don't tell the truth.  

 

The "top level" players are all pretty much known commodities by this point and most of them are there for the reward value of it, but there are a lot of "tier two" if you will prospects in the game that do get a chance to show their wares to college coaches.  I've seen it happen in this game in past years.  

[RedD]

Just because you haven't been offered a scholarship to play football doesn't mean your not one of the best HS players in the state, tier two players do get a chance but if your going with tier two then why not get the best ones, I think the system should have a ballot that has the top players in each position with the tier two players listed as alternates and allow all the HC in the state vote for those kids, they should allow the West coaches to vote for the East kids and East coaches select the West kids, its simple they look at the numbers and make their vote, then they don't have an emotional tie that allows for the injustice of having more deserving kids set home and watch.

[FridayMainEvent]

Just because you haven't been offered a scholarship to play football doesn't mean your not one of the best HS players in the state, tier two players do get a chance but if your going with tier two then why not get the best ones, I think the system should have a ballot that has the top players in each position with the tier two players listed as alternates and allow all the HC in the state vote for those kids, they should allow the West coaches to vote for the East kids and East coaches select the West kids, its simple they look at the numbers and make their vote, then they don't have an emotional tie that allows for the injustice of having more deserving kids set home and watch.

The problem with that is an issue I've complained about for years.  So many Coaches aren't responsible for getting their kids stats loaded online anywhere.  I get the same old excuse "they don't have time".  

 

Every team has someone keeping Stats for all games.  Solicit a parent or student to enter those stats online.  There are a number of websites dedicated to just that!   You wouldn't have to twist an arm.  There is always a manager, assistant coach, student, or parent who would love to do it.  Heck, I entered them for my son's team years ago when he played.  Head Coach was happy to let me do it and I obviously didn't mind.

[hollowman]

It's not necessarily the game itself.  College coaches have a chance to come to practices and see the kids in person and talk to them.  Video is great, but there is nothing like seeing them in person, and seeing them in an all star environment against other like players is something that you may not be able to see on video.  Competition level varies so much from week to week that highlight videos sometimes don't tell the truth.  

 

The "top level" players are all pretty much known commodities by this point and most of them are there for the reward value of it, but there are a lot of "tier two" if you will prospects in the game that do get a chance to show their wares to college coaches.  I've seen it happen in this game in past years.  

HTV, I agree with that.  I understand the value of meeting a kid in person and measuring them up.  I also understand that the level of competition in all-star is more comparable to themselves than it would be on a week to week basis.  As far as film, I'm not referring to "highlight" film, I was speaking of full games.  When my youngest son was in high school, recruiters were not at all interested in "highlights".  Several of them did watch him play in person, but most of them wanted 3, 4, and sometimes 5 full games on him.  He was fortunate enough to have a HC and position coach that took the liberty to take care of this.  He was also invited to play in the E-W all-star game but chose to wrestle in a tournament that weekend.  He had not yet committed to a school.  I still believe that full game films give you the BEST indication of what a kid does on the field. It'll quickly answer whether a kid takes plays off.  It'll answer whether the kid plays through the whistle.  It'll also indicate whether he's a team player or not.  And inadvertently, it many times answers what a kid's character and integrity are based on what the previous answers are.  This is just something I'd share from my own personal experience.

[HTV]

Just because you haven't been offered a scholarship to play football doesn't mean your not one of the best HS players in the state, tier two players do get a chance but if your going with tier two then why not get the best ones, I think the system should have a ballot that has the top players in each position with the tier two players listed as alternates and allow all the HC in the state vote for those kids, they should allow the West coaches to vote for the East kids and East coaches select the West kids, its simple they look at the numbers and make their vote, then they don't have an emotional tie that allows for the injustice of having more deserving kids set home and watch.

 

 

Then you would have a system that goes by "reputation" of players, and not actual skill, ability, and reward for what they have actually done.  Coaches in the East don't see the players in the West, and vice versa.  Those coaches would be calling coaches on the other side of the state for information, anyway, so what would that really accomplish? 

 

And remember - this is an all star game for players who play for members of the TACA.  Those coaches are the ones who make the nominations and then selections are made.  Not every coach opts to become a member of that organization, for whatever reasons they may or may not have.  

 

No system is perfect.  Not matter who is selected there are going to be those who whine - sometimes justified, but more times that not unjustified.  

[HTV]

HTV, I agree with that.  I understand the value of meeting a kid in person and measuring them up.  I also understand that the level of competition in all-star is more comparable to themselves than it would be on a week to week basis.  As far as film, I'm not referring to "highlight" film, I was speaking of full games.  When my youngest son was in high school, recruiters were not at all interested in "highlights".  Several of them did watch him play in person, but most of them wanted 3, 4, and sometimes 5 full games on him.  He was fortunate enough to have a HC and position coach that took the liberty to take care of this.  He was also invited to play in the E-W all-star game but chose to wrestle in a tournament that weekend.  He had not yet committed to a school.  I still believe that full game films give you the BEST indication of what a kid does on the field. It'll quickly answer whether a kid takes plays off.  It'll answer whether the kid plays through the whistle.  It'll also indicate whether he's a team player or not.  And inadvertently, it many times answers what a kid's character and integrity are based on what the previous answers are.  This is just something I'd share from my own personal experience.

 

Agree with that.  My son was recruited, as well, and full game tape was sent.  Point still is that there is a huge disparity in competition level, so while video can show some basics, it's still not as good an evaluator as seeing a prospect in person for a real live "eyeball" test.  Coaches I have had the opportunity to talk to both on and off the air pretty much all say to a man that video will never replace being able to see prospects live and in person either in a game or competitive practice situation.  

[hollowman]

Agree with that.  My son was recruited, as well, and full game tape was sent.  Point still is that there is a huge disparity in competition level, so while video can show some basics, it's still not as good an evaluator as seeing a prospect in person for a real live "eyeball" test.  Coaches I have had the opportunity to talk to both on and off the air pretty much all say to a man that video will never replace being able to see prospects live and in person either in a game or competitive practice situation.  

Agreed.  No doubt, the in person aspect of it is probably the most important.  However, I think the intangibles a coach gets through game film are as important.  I believe that's why they rely on full game film as opposed to highlight.  Anyhow, this certainly is not meant to be a debate, it's nothing more than a question of the validity of these "all-star" games.

[RedD]

HTV, I agree with that.  I understand the value of meeting a kid in person and measuring them up.  I also understand that the level of competition in all-star is more comparable to themselves than it would be on a week to week basis.  As far as film, I'm not referring to "highlight" film, I was speaking of full games.  When my youngest son was in high school, recruiters were not at all interested in "highlights".  Several of them did watch him play in person, but most of them wanted 3, 4, and sometimes 5 full games on him.  He was fortunate enough to have a HC and position coach that took the liberty to take care of this.  He was also invited to play in the E-W all-star game but chose to wrestle in a tournament that weekend.  He had not yet committed to a school.  I still believe that full game films give you the BEST indication of what a kid does on the field. It'll quickly answer whether a kid takes plays off.  It'll answer whether the kid plays through the whistle.  It'll also indicate whether he's a team player or not.  And inadvertently, it many times answers what a kid's character and integrity are based on what the previous answers are.  This is just something I'd share from my own personal experience.

Some players but few have coaches that coach for the right reason, way to many coach for their own selfish reasons, the profession of coaching requires nothing more then a few people to think they are good, the realization is there is way more coaches that only care about their players for what they can give and take very little time to promote that deserving player, Coaching use to have a substance of pride now its way more about EGOS.

Then you would have a system that goes by "reputation" of players, and not actual skill, ability, and reward for what they have actually done.  Coaches in the East don't see the players in the West, and vice versa.  Those coaches would be calling coaches on the other side of the state for information, anyway, so what would that really accomplish? 

 

And remember - this is an all star game for players who play for members of the TACA.  Those coaches are the ones who make the nominations and then selections are made.  Not every coach opts to become a member of that organization, for whatever reasons they may or may not have.  

 

No system is perfect.  Not matter who is selected there are going to be those who whine - sometimes justified, but more times that not unjustified.  

All you have to do is look at the players selected look at the coaches that are coaching the games and its takes all but about two seconds to realize this is a good ole boy game not a true representation of the states talent at every position, I'm not whining, I'm just tired of seeing the system so loop sided, just like Mr Football awards they give those to players for positions they don't even play.

Edited December 9, 2014 by RedD

[HTV]

Agreed.  No doubt, the in person aspect of it is probably the most important.  However, I think the intangibles a coach gets through game film are as important.  I believe that's why they rely on full game film as opposed to highlight.  Anyhow, this certainly is not meant to be a debate, it's nothing more than a question of the validity of these "all-star" games.

 

Not debate - just conversation.  That's what this forum is about, and I think we are more along the same lines of thinking than on opposing sides.  

 

The reality is that video is the way that most prospects outside of the top tier talent are seen by most college coaches.  It's just not practical for the non-power 5 conference schools (which makes up about 90% of the colleges and universities that play college football at some level) can get out to see prospects on a regular basis.  Those schools don't have booster's airplanes at their disposal like the Power 5 coaches do, and it is impossible for them to drive several hundred miles to see a prospect play on Friday and be back for a noon or 1 PM game on their campus or for a road game the next day.  These all star games give them that opportunity and it is a bonus for them.  

[Knoxvul]

I'm hearing from my West buddy that not one single kid from West was originally on this team. Some kids dropped out late and the OLB/DE was added. Heard Cottrell was not originally asked. Sorry to say, but several kids off of that team should have been a part of it. Where is #4 for Hillsboro? I know not every kid can be a part of the game but my goodness, definitely some flaws within.

[TomJoad]

Who got the nod over Fox?

In looking at the East roster the backs who were selected are good but Fox has better numbers. It's just a shame for him after working so hard.

[FHSalumn12]

It is toughest for RBs I believe fox deserved to be there but I think the 3 backs selected are equally as deserving Tyson, Davis, and Thomas... No doubt fox should definitely be in the border bowl...