owlbooster Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Any data points or statistics to back this up other than your random statements that can't be measured? Its fairly easy to get the "stats" about the number of National Merit Semifinalists and the results of the various academic competitions in math/science/languages whatever. If you want to use some other gauge or 'yardstick" go right ahead. If the number of Presidential Scholars is your gauge, then clearly Ensworth is at the top.... The schools themselves know and might tell you how they stack up to the others as far as standardized testing. Of course, that figure can be skewed somewhat by who takes which tests and what is emphasized. For example, School A may have a higher average ACT/SAT score but School B may have a higher mean. That could easily reverse depending on who does or doesn't take the test. I am pretty sure that most students at MBA and MUS takes both tests, so their results are probably less likely to be skewed. So which schools rate "elite" "best" or "better" depends on ? Ask the educators. Neutral ones. Would you believe them? I think they would all mention MBA, MUS, probably Baylor, McCallie and USN. I could be wrong. Just my opinion based on what I see and know. An MBA or MUS "reject" probably could get into most of the other schools in DII. I HAVE seen that happen quite a few times. But the other way around? Not likely... You can find superlatives at every school. A friend/neighbor of mine transferred from MUS to our local public "zoned" HS. I ran into him a few years later. He had a scholarship to Harvard. I told him he would have gotten that wherever he had gone to school. He replied, "Probably. But there were girls and I learned to speak Russian." I conceded. I did not mean to "ruffle the feathers" of any particular school's supporters. This is a SPORTS blog. It has long been a point of contention with me the perception of many that the private schools can and will admit any athletic stud that will better some team with no conception that they must first meet an academic standard for admission, which many fail, and this is higher at some schools than others. Many a superstar has been attracted by the coaches, facilities, reputation, etc of a DII school only to find he can't make the grade academically and ends up somewhere else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tornadoes78 Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Its fairly easy to get the "stats" about the number of National Merit Semifinalists and the results of the various academic competitions in math/science/languages whatever. If you want to use some other gauge or 'yardstick" go right ahead. If the number of Presidential Scholars is your gauge, then clearly Ensworth is at the top.... The schools themselves know and might tell you how they stack up to the others as far as standardized testing. Of course, that figure can be skewed somewhat by who takes which tests and what is emphasized. For example, School A may have a higher average ACT/SAT score but School B may have a higher mean. That could easily reverse depending on who does or doesn't take the test. I am pretty sure that most students at MBA and MUS takes both tests, so their results are probably less likely to be skewed. So which schools rate "elite" "best" or "better" depends on ? Ask the educators. Neutral ones. Would you believe them? I think they would all mention MBA, MUS, probably Baylor, McCallie and USN. I could be wrong. Just my opinion based on what I see and know. An MBA or MUS "reject" probably could get into most of the other schools in DII. I HAVE seen that happen quite a few times. But the other way around? Not likely... You can find superlatives at every school. A friend/neighbor of mine transferred from MUS to our local public "zoned" HS. I ran into him a few years later. He had a scholarship to Harvard. I told him he would have gotten that wherever he had gone to school. He replied, "Probably. But there were girls and I learned to speak Russian." I conceded. I did not mean to "ruffle the feathers" of any particular school's supporters. This is a SPORTS blog. It has long been a point of contention with me the perception of many that the private schools can and will admit any athletic stud that will better some team with no conception that they must first meet an academic standard for admission, which many fail, and this is higher at some schools than others. Many a superstar has been attracted by the coaches, facilities, reputation, etc of a DII school only to find he can't make the grade academically and ends up somewhere else. Glad to know that MUS winning knowledge bowl competitions which according to Channel 3 news is limited to 32 high schools in the mid-south (search memphis knowledge bowl winners and the article should come) makes them elite over all other priviate schools other than MBA. When you have some facts to back up your claims - let us know. Now, back to football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoadrian Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Any data points or statistics to back this up other than your random statements that can't be measured? 2013 National Merit Semi finalists by school: MBA 21 MUS 15 Ensworth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin1 Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) 2013 National Merit Semi finalists by school: MBA 21 MUS 15 Ensworth 1 MBA and MUS also had far more National Merit Semi-Finalists ("NMSF") than did University School of Nashville last year, and I guarantee that you will not find anyone knowledgeable about education in Tennessee who considers USN to be anything other than an "elite academic school". The NMSF are determined solely by a score on a standardized test; some schools emphasize and "teach to" standardized tests, other schools do not. Standardized test results no longer have the cachet that they once did in academia. Harvard University offered admission to less than 900 applicants from the 2013 high school graduating class through its "Early Action" program; 3 of those offers went to Ensworth students. None of those 3 was a NMSF. Edited August 13, 2013 by RedRobin1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owlbooster Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) MBA and MUS also had far more National Merit Semi-Finalists ("NMSF") than did University School of Nashville last year, and I guarantee that you will not find anyone knowledgeable about education in Tennessee who considers USN to be anything other than an "elite academic school". The NMSF are determined solely by a score on a standardized test; some schools emphasize and "teach to" standardized tests, other schools do not. Standardized test results no longer have the cachet that they once did in academia. Harvard University offered admission to less than 900 applicants from the 2013 high school graduating class through its "Early Action" program; 3 of those offers went to Ensworth students. None of those 3 was a NMSF. The original context was schools turning away athletic studs due to academics. I don't think USJ fits the bill. They aren't exactly a sports magnet....I did give them a plug academically. The Knowledge Bowl was simply one example of an academic competition. I don't give it too much significance because it only matches 4 students.Yes Channel 3 picks the 32 schools for the Bowl - largely the best academically in their opinion (Omigosh how did they pick 'em? Did they have any Presidential Scholars?) ) Do you want to include all the DI A teams in the playoffs just to make sure EHS is the true DII champion? Harvard is a Liberal bastion. Who cares whom they admit. 'Nough said about the Crimson. I will repeat myself - EVERY school had SOME academic studs/scholars. Some schools have MORE of them. It's not a dig on a school or its educators. It's a statement about the student body makeup. Comprende? Hey Red - you keep on drinking the Red KoolAid thinking Ensworth is in the same league academically as MBA and MUS. There are many other ways to compare the schools. I have already mentioned the academic competitions/tournaments. They are academic "games" if you will and the aforementioned schools are the big winners in them. EHS is not even in the game. If you don't believe me and don't want to look anything up, compare some school web sites and you'll get some idea. MBA and MUS have numerous posts about how they fared in these competitions. Most schools do not. Guess why that is.... The claim that some schools "teach" to standardized tests is one of the biggest cop-outs or excuses that liberals and less successful schools use to rationalize their under-performing. Then there's the old standby of "ethnic bias" as if that could possibly affect a math or science score. If how students perform in testing, academic competitions and the like are not valid ways of comparing schools academically, then what would you propose would be valid? Oh yeah...the number of Presidential Scholars....or your internal fuzzy glow meter...LOL Why in the world RU so defensive? I'm sure you have no problem with EHS being considered an "elite" school athletically. After all, they have the numbers of athletes and they have the wins in the athletic competitions. What the heck is the difference? Why have you made it such an issue? Sounds like insecurity..... Edited August 14, 2013 by owlbooster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volzchamps Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Bowers has done an excellent job regardless of the talent available. During his early years at Ensworth, he had far less talent than he now has, yet had excellent seasons and beat some very very talented teams. That success has led to more talent being attracted to him at Ensworth; kids attend that school for many diverse reasons, but any kid that wants to play football can appreciate the tremendous coaching and training he will receive from Bowers and the rest of his staff. Success breeds success, and Ensworth is clearly enjoying the truth of that maxim, but it all started with great coaching. If anyone wants to see the type of coach Bowers is, I suggest that they attend an Ensworth basketball game. It is much easier to observe a coach in action in basketball than in football. Bower's basketball teams, featuring mostly kids that also play football, have won the last 3 D2-AA basketball state championships against teams with far more "basketball talent", including nationally ranked players and programs. Last year was a good example, when Ensworth, whose tallest player was a 6'4" sophomore whose natural position is shooting guard, beat Briarcrest (featuring 6'8" senior Austin Nichols) and gave the ultra-talented CPA a significant scare in the close confines of CPA's home gym. I sincerely doubt that anyone who has watched a Bowers-led basketball team will ever again accuse Ricky of simply "recruiting" talent and then just rolling out the balls to let them play. It's the same in football, though it may be harder for the average fan to see. right on!! I played for Bowers at a summer camp in his Lipscomb playing days under coach Myers. It took less than 5 minutes to learn how competitive he was & I learned more basketball in a wk under him than most kids learn in a career. I knew then he was destined to become one of TN's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) KWC - Nothing to add. Wasn't there. Heard it was a defensive struggle and neither team crossed the goal line, unlike last year when MUS hung 5 TDs on the Tigers and "won" easily. The Owls have huge shoes to fill at QB. That's their main issue. Couldn't make it to Da Haven because: A. I melt when the heat index exceeds 100 B. My armored HUMVEE was in the shop C. My KEVLAR vest was at the dry cleaners D. All of the above E. None of the above Look forward to your weekly prognostication service..... Owlbooster: I actually LIKE the QB I saw. Very exciting. I think he will do VERY Well. A. How on earth do you ever survive summers in Memphis? B. Is it in the shop more then it is on the rode? I hate when that happens! C. What? ... No bullet-taking body guards/secret service men to go with you in a pinch? D. E. Will you be joining us this year in the weekly Memphis-area high school football games prognistication competition? ... awwww ... come oooooonnnnn! ... wadaya say? Edited August 14, 2013 by kwc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRobin1 Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Hey owlbooster; prolly the best people to give an opinion regarding the relative academic, athletic, social, etc. merits of Ensworth are the substantial and ever-inceasing number of MBA and Harpeth Hall graduates who are sending their progeny to EHS. Wonder why that is??? Best wishes to MUS and the other teams from the west this year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustachiomenace Posted August 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 (edited) Looked in the Tennessean today and it basically laid out that Ricky bowers is the best coach not only in d2 but ever in Tennessee history Edited August 15, 2013 by mustachiomenace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baylorbigdog1976 Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130815/SPORTS07/308150044/Ensworth-High-has-quickly-become-sports-powerhouse?nclick_check=1 Looked in the Tennessean today and it basically laid out that Ricky bowers is the best coach not only in d2 but ever in Tennessee history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinthefat Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Ricky has had success at football schools, MBA,BA and EHS. Put him on the sideline at Ryan or JP2, that would reveal if he is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baylorbigdog1976 Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't know ... I think Ricky has won many years with less talent than some of the other coaches in d2. Just not sure nick saben could win at jp2 or Ryan given the current roster at both schools. When coach flatt went to eagleville high school he was no less of a coach than he was at BA. Look up Eagleviles record in those years. Had nothing to do with coach flatt....Ricky if he stays in the sport and coaches another 15-20 years will go down as possibly the greatest high school coach ever in Tennessee. He is creeping into the discussion now - win 4 or 5 more championships and he will be mentioned with coach Flatt- George Quarles and the likes .. Ricky has had success at football schools, MBA,BA and EHS. Put him on the sideline at Ryan or JP2, that would reveal if he is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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