LargeK9

Haas anyone heard how the post season would work in the proposed AA and AAA classifications? I ask because it doesn't seem to work real well with the numbers. The AA districts are closest with at least an even number of districts(12), which can be merged as usual into an even number of regions(6). After that, some form of wild card system will be needed for sports other than football as well to get to 8 for the state tounament. The propsed AAA districts are even worse. They have 9 districts which means they will need a wild card system after district tournaments to get to a tournament number(16, 32, 64). While I am not against that, how would a wild card system be fairly implemented with travel in mind? Would anyone care?

First, congratulations Rowdy. It is always an accomplishment to beat a team like Lipscomb. You guys must have played very well that night. Second, aren't you a little late? How did the MLK game go last night? I saw that it was close. What happened?

Also, look at the players to watch for each team. You mean to tell me that the only player anyone is impressed with from MLK is Johnny Lee. What about Chris Smith, Clarence Smith, Demario Dayton, and John Hopson? They are all back and not a single mention. This guy did not do his homework when he wrote this article.

I know a lot has been written about the players and fans, but what about the crowd? I know 8AA is hosting and could therefore be considered the "home" team, but it is in Portland and 3 of the teams are in Nashville. Will 7AA have any teams that will bring a huge crowd? Of the teams from 7AA coming, will any of them bring a fan base to rival Lipscomb? The bomb squad from Lipscomb understands that the crowd can be a difference maker. Will Upperman bring fans to overcome that advantage?

Hey, Booboo. Nothing happened to Alex. He was just having trouble getting the ball and we couldn't get him involved. Good job by the Greenbrier defense. The first half we were shooting 31% from the floor to Greenbrier's 72%. I am hoping that we have corrected this in practice and that won't happen again. We missed so many shots in the first half including lay-ups and put backs I was having a fit. Hopefully, we'll be ready for tournament play and good luck to you and your guys.

I just wanted to say congratulations to Coach Fey and the guys at East Lit for a great week last week. You guys played well and defeated the #1(MLK) and #2(LIPSCOMB) teams in your district in the same week. That is an outstanding accomplishment in 8AA especially getting ready for tournaments. Good luck to you guys.

How can the TSSAA legislative council vote down the public-private split when the member schools voted overwhemingly for it? Who on the council does this benefit?

smelly, you missed the games on Friday I see. Stratford beat MLK but neither one played their starters. Henry Harris sat the bench the whole time as well as Johnny Lee and Co. for MLK. Antioch on the other hand got beat by Hume-Fogg.

CoachF, don't count yourself out. You have a lot of talent over there. Don't forget about Springfield either this year. Although, I did hear that a starting guard (maybe Collier) had broken an ankle. Anyone know for sure about that and how long he may be out?

Thanks for the approval guys. I would like to hear from any referees about this idea. Also, would anyone have a good suggestion about who to contact about this? How would we go about getting it into action? Ideas are great, but useless if we don't act on them.

CoachSH see what you think of this. If coaches and referees worked together to get a simple 4 or 5 question survey that could be filled out after the game, the refs could be ranked in these categories from 1 being poor to 5 being excellent. This could combine into an overall score for the ref. Also, in order to make sure this is not "one more thing" to everyone's long list, the association could randomly choose about 5 or 6 games a year for each ref. This would take out the buddy system because you don't always get to rate your buddy. Also, since refs in our association work all clasifications, they would be at the top if they were consitently at the top in various coaches' rankings. Does anyone have any other ideas?

'jgriffin' lighten up! If your dad is a good referee then he would have a good evaluation, if not then he would have something to worry about. There is nothing wrong with trying to discuss ways to improve the quality of the game in every aspect, from player, to coaches, and to referees. I am a coach and always open to ideas about how to get better at what I do so that the game and my athletes are better served. 'BigOwl' once again you bring up a valid point about all coaches not seeing every referee. I could see coaches rating referees that they DO see each year. While not a perfect plan, it would allow some coach input. Also, I do not want to seem like I want just the coaches to decide. In fact, the coaches' ratings should really be a part of a referee's evaluation. His association should be the primary source, but the coach would have some say. If all of the coaches in a district rated a particular referee low, then it probably isn't a 'personality conflict'. Also, if a ref continues to get a number of bad ratings or they increase, then the association can use this as a tool to see who needs more training. I also would not be adverse to going to one of these referee camps as a requirement for coaches. I know most other coaches will start complaing here, but we also have to make the effort. As long as my questions will also be answered, then I should gain a better understanding of the refs and their interpretation of the rules. These are just ideas about something that could be worked out if people are willing to discuss them. That is what these message boards are for after all.

You are 100% correct BigOwl. It is only those referees that do not care that I would like to weed out. I agree that some bias would interfere with a coach's evaluation. However, I think that coaches could look at certain aspects of the game objectively if the rating sheet were worded carefully. This would take time and effort by coaches and referees to develop, but once it was, you would have an effective method to consistently observe refs and identify refs that may need closer observation by their association. The coaches ratings for one game should not be a measure, but if one ref is consistently getting bad marks by more than one coach perhaps there is something there.

BigOwl, thank you for getting back to what this thread is supposed to be about: making the refs better. I do not have all of the answers. I have experienced some refs who took getting scratched personally. We have stopped doing that. However, some refs think that if they do not see you that year, you must have scratched them. That very comment was made by a referee before a district tournament game this year. I thought it was very inappropriate. I'm sure that the refs are trying to better themselves, but is one camp every 3 years enough? Also, most of the refs at those camps will get better because they take it seriously. However, in my association I see a few who only take it serious when being watched. That is the primary reason I would like to see coaches have some input. Then they would always be watched.

I have been reading these posts and I am starting to wonder why some people are getting so upset over people offering criticism to the referees. It was a shame to see the Ridgeway-Elizabethton game called the way that it was. These teams were well matched in terms of talent and coaching. The referees should not determine the outcome of a game, especially at the state tournament. If you truly are fans of the game, I'm sure you have seen this before. The point of open dialog on this topic is to try to develop ideas that can prevent this from happening again. 'CaochSH' has said that coaches should have some rating of the officials. Why is this so upsetting to you 'heyitsme'? You think it makes 'Knightcourt' an elitist to want input into the officiating. Why are you so scared to be rated by coaches?(I know you said you are not a ref, but you seem to take this pretty personally.) As a coach, my credentials for rating a referee are that I read the rulebook every year and am aware of the rules as well as they are. I would never want the coaches rating to be the sole input to who gets to the state, but why can't it be given some weight? I have more respect for those referees who have come to me after a game and said,'Sorry, coach, I missed that one.' rather than the ever popular 'You worry about coaching and I'll worry about the calls.' Those are the people who want control. I may not pay the referees out of my pocket, but it does bother me that I have little to no input as to who I am getting for 'the school's' money. All I have at the beginning of the year is a ranking sheet. This ranking sheet rarely reflects the referees that I am sent each year. I receive a printout of the refs assigned to my games based on the schedule I sent in. I have no way to avoid referees who I do not think should get paid. Before you go on about my right to scratch a ref, this only ensures that those refs will be seen in the tournament and will have an attitude about being scratched in the first place. Are coaches paid in a similar fashion as the referees? No. But they are accountable to more people than just their own organization. I am held accountable every night by my principle, my parents, and the administrators in the central office. I do hold the members of my community to the same type of accountabilty. I wouldn't want a policeman to show up drunk to a shoot out. I want to know why you don't think referees have to answer to anyone for their mistakes? I am NOT saying that I am perfect, but I do try to improve myself and my profession. This was supposed to be a discourse on ways to make referees better. I do understand that not all of the best teams may make it to the state. The same is true for the best referees. However, I do not 'accept' that that is the way it has to be. Heyitsme, you should open your mind and stop being such a ptz about people suggesting change especially when it is for the betterment of the GAME!

BigAsports is probably right on the money. The other participant in the final is probably going to come from the winner of the Hume-Fogg/Upperman game tonight. Both of those teams have a good shot at the winner of the MLK/York game.

Are there any new rankings coming out soon? It has been awhile and the AP poll is not as complete. Let's see something now that the last few weeks are winding down.

It looks like David Lipscomb is in the dirver's seat. Rounding out the next four or five look to be Hume-Fogg, MLK, Springfield and Portland. The tournament should be stacked with talent.

This was a game that highlighted what High school basketball is all about. Both teams have talent, depth, and coaching. The fans are the true winners in this outing. What a show!!! Some people seem to be overlooking what the Renfroe kid is bringing to the Hume-Fogg backcourt. Although the Tennessean failed to recognize it, this was the kid's third double-double this year. He had 18 pts., 10 boards, 5 assts., and 5 steals. This kid was all over the court doing it all. If they can keep him and Harriford on a roll and get more production out of the big men down low, this could definitely be force come district, region, and beyond.

Now that the season is closing in, does anybody have any pre-season picks for how this district may shake out. Mine would be: 1. Portland - Brewer and Furguson will be too much to handle. 2. Lipscomb - Always tough. 3. Hume-Fogg - Harriford and company will have a tough time repeating, but should be in the thick of things at the end. 4. Springfield - Athletic and quick, but in need of leadership. 5. MLK - Young bunch this year, but very talented. Shelton will have them tough by tourny time but will come up short in the season. 6. Macon Co. - Tough at home, but must overcome too many good teams this year. 7. East Lit. - Plenty of athletes, nut cannot play together. Need to learn about "team" sport. 8. Greenbriar - Much like MLK, young but not quite as talented. Next year they will move up.

Everyone should not forget about Springfield so early. They have one of the quickest teams around with talent to match. Last year they were a young team which lead to a lot of inconsistency. With everyone focused on Lipscomb, Portland, and Hume-Fogg, they could surprise them all. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they wound up district champs when all was said and done.

I think heyitsme is missing the point of this whole thread. No one is bashing officials. In fact, I agree that they are doing the best job that they can right now under this sytem. However, no one can improve if they are satisfied with where they are at. If we don't question if there is a better way, then there will never be any improvement. We ask that of players and coaches. Can't we ask that of officials as well? Why is commenting on offciating such a taboo subject? If handled in a professional manner, it shouldn't be. I think a dialog among coaches is a great start to one day implementing an evaluation that we all, coaches and officials, can be proud of in the future.

I understand that the officials do not get paid a lot of money and I do sympathize. However, they did take the officiating job to supplement their other income and should therefore give it some priority. It seems that we are concerned that the occasional problem with the refs has become problematic among a larger group. I sometimes feel that the refs may have a personal agenda(not against a coach or team, but work the next day or trouble at home)that may interfere with the calls they make in a game. I agree that some form of evaluation needs to take place. It does not even have to be a primary component of a ref's evaluation as long as I do have a voice. I may not like filling out an evaluation after every game, but if it leads to more accountability and better officiating, I am all for it