Fuel Costs Force TSSAA Changes

[Indian]

Do you think they will be joined back together? Maybe you think Brentwood Academy should be playing in 1A, maybe they can host Red Boiling Springs in their first region game back in Division I. Ridiculous, of course, but it's a 350 student school so yes that could be their class. The point was made that a complete split would be more travel for private schools. No, it wouldn't. Overall it would be better. You'd have some long trips, but some of the teams are already making long non-region trips. A player from St Andrew's was on here once telling how his school wished for a complete split, to stop the travel from Memphis. I'd bet David Brainerd and others in Division II-A wish for the same thing, but the wishes of the smallest, least succesful. aren't likely to be granted.

[jimbo44]

I paid $2.749 For gas today. That is only a dime more than I payed before Katrina hit the sand. Fuel prices always peak the opening day(that week-end) of dove season.

[Baldcoach]

Do you think they will be joined back together? Maybe you think Brentwood Academy should be playing in 1A, maybe they can host Red Boiling Springs in their first region game back in Division I. Ridiculous, of course, but it's a 350 student school so yes that could be their class. The point was made that a complete split would be more travel for private schools. No, it wouldn't. Overall it would be better. You'd have some long trips, but some of the teams are already making long non-region trips.  A player from St Andrew's was on here once telling how his school wished for a complete split, to stop the travel from Memphis. I'd bet David Brainerd and others in Division II-A wish for the same thing, but the wishes of the smallest, least succesful. aren't likely to be granted.

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THe only people who wish for a split at all are the publics...the rest of us would like to see it all put back together. Indian, let me ask you a question. Since the split, have the small public schools gotten better or worse? Why? What do you think would happen if ALL privates were split? Why?

 

Ok, that was 4 questions, but they relate dang it!

[itzme]

Do you think they will be joined back together? Maybe you think Brentwood Academy should be playing in 1A, maybe they can host Red Boiling Springs in their first region game back in Division I. Ridiculous, of course, but it's a 350 student school so yes that could be their class. The point was made that a complete split would be more travel for private schools. No, it wouldn't. Overall it would be better. You'd have some long trips, but some of the teams are already making long non-region trips.  A player from St Andrew's was on here once telling how his school wished for a complete split, to stop the travel from Memphis. I'd bet David Brainerd and others in Division II-A wish for the same thing, but the wishes of the smallest, least succesful. aren't likely to be granted.

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No, as I stated previously, I don't think they are going to rejoin DI and DII. This is a theoretical discussion from my POV, not a practical one. Clearly, the TSSAA, which is dominated by the public schools, will more likely vote a complete split than to rejoin anything at all. If the multiplier doesn't allow a majority of state titles to go to public schools in the smaller classes, I think we can count on a complete split. That's simply their attitude: Keep making changes until my team wins. Worked for the larger classes, so why not?

 

I win the theoretical discussion, you win the practical one, and nobody really cares about theoretical!

 

BTW, (again theoretically) I think if they did not allow any schools to play up, it would be OK, and probably solve a lot of the issues. If BA played in A or AA of a new 3 class structure, (BA's upper school enrollment is now around 480) I'd be perfectly fine with it. A state championship would have real meaning in any class if there were only three. Today, we have zero state football championships that are truly meaningful, IMO.

Edited September 14, 2005 by itzme

[big red big blue]

No, as I stated previously, I don't think they are going to rejoin DI and DII.  This is a theoretical discussion from my POV, not a practical one.  Clearly, the TSSAA, which is dominated by the public schools, will more likely vote a complete split than to rejoin anything at all.  If the multiplier doesn't allow a majority of state titles to go to public schools in the smaller classes, I think we can count on a complete split.  That's simply their attitude:  Keep making changes until my team wins.  Worked for the larger classes, so why not?

 

I win the theoretical discussion, you win the practical one, and nobody really cares about theoretical!

 

BTW, (again theoretically) I think if they did not allow any schools to play up, it would be OK, and probably solve a lot of the issues.  If BA played in A or AA of a new 3 class structure, (BA's upper school enrollment is now around 480) I'd be perfectly fine with it.  A state championship would have real meaning in any class if there were only three.  Today, we have zero state football championships that are truly meaningful, IMO.

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Here's the thing: at MBA, the approach to this issue--evidenced by a letter sent by Brad Gioia to the Nashville public school community and reproduced in our alumni magazine stating as much--has been to seek some sort of reconciliation with the publics. Not sure how BA has handled it. We have all, in the meantime, played nice with the TSSAA despite its best efforts to ruin football for us all.

 

If the day comes when the TSSAA effects a complete split of publics and privates, I would imagine that MBA would then redirect its efforts to making private school football the premier football league in the state, and making sure the world knew it. I would hope we completely abandon the TSSAA and quit funnelling any sort of dollars towards it, and form some sort of private school league. Then, I suspect that MBA, BA, MUS, Ensworth, et al would really leverage their resources to making sure that private school football got the most media coverage, had the best exposure on tv/radio/print/etc (maybe sign a tv deal?), had high profile games with out of state opponents, etc. Pretty much do anything to kill the idea that you could be the best in TN w/o playing privates. Ryan seems to be on the rebound (their beating Franklin probably ended any hope of an end to the split--see your previous post), CPA is close to being on par with MBA/BA, and you can only suspect that JPII, with Jeff Brothers as its coach, is not far behind. I think there would be a high level of cooperation among the private schools at all levels. I'd suspect that MBA/BA/Ens would start really helping some of the smaller private schools with resources for travel, etc.

[Baldcoach]

Here's the thing: at MBA, the approach to this issue--evidenced by a letter sent by Brad Gioia to the Nashville public school community and reproduced in our alumni magazine stating as much--has been to seek some sort of reconciliation with the publics.  Not sure how BA has handled it.  We have all, in the meantime, played nice with the TSSAA despite its best efforts to ruin football for us all. 

 

If the day comes when the TSSAA effects a complete split of publics and privates, I would imagine that MBA would then redirect its efforts to making private school football the premier football league in the state, and making sure the world knew it.  I would hope we completely abandon the TSSAA and quit funnelling any sort of dollars towards it, and form some sort of private school league.  Then, I suspect that MBA, BA, MUS, Ensworth, et al would really leverage their resources to making sure that private school football got the most media coverage, had the best exposure on tv/radio/print/etc (maybe sign a tv deal?), had high profile games with out of state opponents, etc.  Pretty much do anything to kill the idea that you could be the best in TN w/o playing privates.  Ryan seems to be on the rebound (their beating Franklin probably ended any hope of an end to the split--see your previous post), CPA is close to being on par with MBA/BA, and you can only suspect that JPII, with Jeff Brothers as its coach, is not far behind.  I think there would be a high level of cooperation among the private schools at all levels.  I'd suspect that MBA/BA/Ens would start really helping some of the smaller private schools with resources for travel, etc.

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This is what I am trying to get the small public people to understand. In Texas, where the privates and publics are completely split, it only took about 15 years before the small publics had lost all their good athletes to the privates or the large publics. So not, 1a ball in Texas is 8 man. 2a ball is split into an 8 and an 11 man league with 2 'state champions'. It isn't until you get to 3a ball that the publics consistently have enough athletes to put out 11 man teams.

 

Why? Because there is not any reason for the privates not to offer incentives to any good small school athlete. They are not in the same league and have no history with each other, so there is no incentive for the privates not to go get the kids. Finally, placing the privates totally in their own league allowed them to have a governing board made up of only privates, which meant that only rulings benefitting privates were made...wait...that is how the TSSAA is for publics now...lol.

[Indian]

So all of you are condoning recruting, should there be a complete split?

 

"Why? Because there is not any reason for the privates not to offer incentives to any good small school athlete."

[Indian]

THe only people who wish for a split at all are the publics...the rest of us would like to see it all put back together.  Indian, let me ask you a question.  Since the split, have the small public schools gotten better or worse?  Why?  What do you think would happen if ALL privates were split?  Why?

 

Ok, that was 4 questions, but they relate dang it! 

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There would be 4 classes in an all public school division, and Goodpasture would have been beating Baylor in the state Division II softball championships. Public schools have probably gotten no better or worse, but the likes of Boyd-Buchanan and Jackson Christian have jumped on the scene.

[silverpie]

So all of you are condoning recruting, should there be a complete split?

 

"Why? Because there is not any reason for the privates not to offer incentives to any good small school athlete."

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That's odd--I don't see those posts as "condoning recruiting" at all, just pointing out that the small publics you claim to champion were the biggest losers in Texas' system.

 

Two other things that should be mentioned: The Texas 3A class runs from about 400-900 students, which corresponds to Tennessee 2A and most of 3A. Also, there was not a "split" in Texas--the UIL has never accepted anything but public schools as members (with the exception of the "Jesuit rule," which applies only to two schools that were essentially under a boycott prior to the decision and explicitly excludes schools that are eligible for the private-school association). The creation of TAPPS in 1978 was from the void.

[lazarus]

well, there is a third thing worth mentioning...

 

texas schools do not play 8 man ball because of private recruiting.

it is about population density... ever been to west texas? or the panhandle?

 

8 (& even 6) man football is about the great plains.

it is (or at least used to be) also played in western oklahoma, kansas, nebraska, the dakotas, montana, and i think idaho, wyoming & nevada.

privates stripping those schools of players is as fictional as the texas split.

 

on another note, i would be interested in what the MBA letter had to say.

reconciliation would be a good thing.

[Baldcoach]

well, there is a third thing worth mentioning...

 

texas schools do not play 8 man ball because of private recruiting.

it is about population density... ever been to west texas? or the panhandle?

 

8 (& even 6) man football is about the great plains.

it is (or at least used to be) also played in western oklahoma, kansas, nebraska, the dakotas, montana, and i think idaho, wyoming & nevada.

privates stripping those schools of players is as fictional as the texas split.

 

on another note, i would be interested in what the MBA letter had to say.

reconciliation would be a good thing.

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Note that I didn't say there was a split in Texas, I said that it only took about 15 years for a seperated Private league to cause irreperable harm to the small Texas Publics.

 

It is also worthy of note that 2 large private schools sued to get admitted into the Texas public league and won...precedent?

[Antwan]

Note that I didn't say there was a split in Texas, I said that it only took about 15 years for a seperated Private league to cause irreperable harm to the small Texas Publics. 

 

It is also worthy of note that 2 large private schools sued to get admitted into the Texas public league and won...precedent?

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Like I have said before...the publics are willing to take that chance. In this state...there would not be a mass exodus of players to the private schools any more than there already is. Most schools can't afford to give much aid. Even the very few that can afford it...are in metro areas. It won't affect the smaller public schools at all. The larger publics won't be affected too much because of the number of good players available.