Is the new multiplier rule working

[BUC4LIFE]

You're right. The private I attended definitely did not advertise that. But the figures are also skewed when you consider a few things. I'm in my mid 30's - when most privates near Nashville started. Meaning, most class sizes were extremely small (I belive my kindergarten class there would have had 8 students in it) as the schools started. The publics near my school were not bad schools. Of course they had their public school headaches, but they are considered to be decent schools.

 

Off the top of my head ... going position by position on my high school baseball team senior year - not a single starter on the team attended that school for elementary school (at any level). Not one. My junior year - 3 attended elementary school there.

 

There is a lot of turnover at private schools. More than you would like to think. It happens for various reasons. Parents can no longer afford it. Don't agree with some of the doctrine. Feel like there are greener pastures elsewhere. Whatever reason ... it happens way more than you think. And, as you stated before ... it definitely isn't advertised publically.

 

 

Not to mention we are talking about 13 or so years worth of school. That's a lot of time for parents to move, get new jobs, and/or for just life to happen. It's not like MBA or BA where you don't start there until junior high. Now looking at it from the standpoint of kids that started in junior high at my private ... then we are talking about the vast majority actually completing their education there.

tnsddeveloper- did you attend Friendship? I might be wrong but based on some other posts I'v read I thought that was where you were from. If that is so and you had a class of 7 or 8 when you were in K, that would have been when the school was getting started right? I think if you looked at the program today there would not be as much attrition. Today it is a very well established and respected school. I'm know the programs develope over time at a school like that. That was my case at Boyd. I was in the 2nd graduating class. (1980) We didn't have most of the programs that are available to the students that attend today. Band, Chorus, AP classes, soccer, wrestling etc. etc. and football either didn't exist or were pitiful programs in the early years. It takes considerable time for that to develope as I'm sure your aware. I think that might have been why so much attrition during your days. Just my opinion.

[tnsddeveloper]

tnsddeveloper- did you attend Friendship? I might be wrong but based on some other posts I'v read I thought that was where you were from. If that is so and you had a class of 7 or 8 when you were in K, that would have been when the school was getting started right? I think if you looked at the program today there would not be as much attrition. Today it is a very well established and respected school. I'm know the programs develope over time at a school like that. That was my case at Boyd. I was in the 2nd graduating class. (1980) We didn't have most of the programs that are available to the students that attend today. Band, Chorus, AP classes, soccer, wrestling etc. etc. and football either didn't exist or were pitiful programs in the early years. It takes considerable time for that to develope as I'm sure your aware. I think that might have been why so much attrition during your days. Just my opinion.

 

I did attend Friendship. I will say that the baseball and softball programs there have always been very strong. Basketball for both genders is decent from year to year. It was only recently that the football teams starting performing at a high level too. I really can't speak for how the school does now in terms of lifelong students, but I do know they get a large number of junior high transfers year after year. That would leave me to believe that there are openings in each class due to some attrition as I do know they have caps on the number of students per grade/class - I've been there to talk to the admins there (they are different now from when I attended) to see if that's where I want to send my kids. I do agree that they have done a good job of winning and attracting good student athletes of late. Not to mention they have some actual college professors that come to campus to teach college credit classes such as freshman (college) biology and such. I do agree that the attrition may be much less now ... but it happens ... but at the same time, it happens everywhere including the publics.

[VolunteerGeneral]

Actually, VG went to a private school his entire life and now sends his two kids to JCM ( a public HS that was hit hard a few years back by transfers of students and athletes to two new Magnet High Schools that opened in the area). He has seen both sides of the argument.

 

Actually 6 years public, six years private. One is at JCM and one is at Madison (magnet) But yes..I have seen all sorts of sides of this argument.

[TalentWinsGames]

TWG..you never answered my question. So I`m not sure what question you are referring to.

 

As to your post....In the REAL world most privates school kids start at their school when they are in elementary and before. So that just does not constitute recruiting athletes. And in reality TWG anyone who is choosing a school for athletic reasons doesn`t need advertising to know that a school has a good sports program. All one has to do is read the local sports section to know that.

 

I`ll pause so you can answer my question.

I need stats VG. I need stats. I can say that most people chew their food three times before they swallow, but I can't back that up.

Bottomline, my point was unless you make recruiting legal for every school then that is why there are two divisions. It is not fair for public schools to have to compete with schools that can recruit. They have divisions in the NCAA based on this differences among teams. Hence, there are two collegiate divisions for scholarship and non-scholarship schools. That is why we have two high school divisions.

I don't even know what your question is by now. Frankly, I don't care. Just accept what I have written. You went off on the advertising theme for so long that I could careless what you have to say at this point. You never once legitimately took anything I said seriously, but yet you would come back with ridiculous information like what is posted above. Lastly, if private schools were not becoming so dominant, then what was happening in 1-A the past five years. Public schools were unable to compete with them. There had to be a change to allow fairness. I'm not saying that the way the TSSAA handled it was the best, I'm just saying a change needed to be made.

Edited December 15, 2005 by TalentWinsGames

[BUC4LIFE]

I did attend Friendship. I will say that the baseball and softball programs there have always been very strong. Basketball for both genders is decent from year to year. It was only recently that the football teams starting performing at a high level too. I really can't speak for how the school does now in terms of lifelong students, but I do know they get a large number of junior high transfers year after year. That would leave me to believe that there are openings in each class due to some attrition as I do know they have caps on the number of students per grade/class - I've been there to talk to the admins there (they are different now from when I attended) to see if that's where I want to send my kids. I do agree that they have done a good job of winning and attracting good student athletes of late. Not to mention they have some actual college professors that come to campus to teach college credit classes such as freshman (college) biology and such. I do agree that the attrition may be much less now ... but it happens ... but at the same time, it happens everywhere including the publics.

Agreed. I have been to Friendship and the facilities are great. The baseball field was awsome. I have a lot of respect for the school. It is a first class program with first class people.

Here in Chattanooga most people are satisfied with their elementary schools. It is at the Middle school level that people do transfere if they are going to. We have 3 classes each of pre K through 5th grade. Starting in 6th grade the we expand to 4 classes each from 6th -12th grades. We have approx 17-20 students in each class. Student /Teacher ratio for the whole school is 15:1. (The AP classes in the High School lower the ratio) When those kids come to us in 6th grade some fit our program and other do not. We sometimes have to prune our some diciplinary problems. We take very very few new students in the 11th or 12th grade. It has to be a very unusual circumstance if we do. My son is a sophmore now and at least 2/3rds of the students in the 10th grade started with him in Kindergarten. But you are right, every school has turnover.

[BUC4LIFE]

I need stats VG. I need stats. I can say that most people chew their food three times before they swallow, but I can't back that up.

Bottomline, my point was unless you make recruiting legal for every school then that is why there are two divisions. It is not fair for public schools to have to compete with schools that can recruit. They have divisions in the NCAA based on this differences among teams. Hence, there are two collegiate divisions for scholarship and non-scholarship schools. That is why we have two high school divisions.

I don't even know what your question is by now. Frankly, I don't care. Just accept what I have written. You went off on the advertising theme for so long that I could careless what you have to say at this point. You never once legitimately took anything I said seriously, but yet you would come back with ridiculous information like what is posted above. Lastly, if private schools were not becoming so dominant, then what was happening in 1-A the past five years. Public schools were unable to compete with them. There had to be a change to allow fairness. I'm not saying that the way the TSSAA handled it was the best, I'm just saying a change needed to be made.

I agree with most of your post. There definately needs to be a change. I think a Total Split is the othly way to fix the system. I was totaly naive about how at least some felt about playing private schools until I started reading Coach T. It has opened my eyes. A total split is the ONLY solution.

I would say that there has already been a move by the TSSAA years ago to put the schools that recruit DII in their own division. I can understand that a school of 300 (Brentwood) beating a school of 2000 (Riverdale) that something is fishy.

What I still don't understand is how a school in D1 that does not recruit and that does not give financial aid to athletes has an advantage over any other public school of similar size. I don't understand the largest multiplier in the country being imposed on those schools.

Someone posted about the Puplic schools domination (Trousdale 6 state titles, Alcoa, Riverdale and others) over the years. When the private schools had a few successful years (Boyd, DCA, CPA) each winning 1 title each over the prior 3 years to me seems an overreaction by the TSSAA to impose the 1.8 multiplier.

I will say though if more people feel like some who post on here about "having" to play the private schools then I personally would rather just split. I think it is the ONLY solution.

[VolunteerGeneral]

I need stats VG. I need stats. I can say that most people chew their food three times before they swallow, but I can't back that up.

Bottomline, my point was unless you make recruiting legal for every school then that is why there are two divisions. It is not fair for public schools to have to compete with schools that can recruit. They have divisions in the NCAA based on this differences among teams. Hence, there are two collegiate divisions for scholarship and non-scholarship schools. That is why we have two high school divisions.

I don't even know what your question is by now. Frankly, I don't care. Just accept what I have written. You went off on the advertising theme for so long that I could careless what you have to say at this point. You never once legitimately took anything I said seriously, but yet you would come back with ridiculous information like what is posted above. Lastly, if private schools were not becoming so dominant, then what was happening in 1-A the past five years. Public schools were unable to compete with them. There had to be a change to allow fairness. I'm not saying that the way the TSSAA handled it was the best, I'm just saying a change needed to be made.

 

TWG...please see post #177 for my question. You throw out stuff as if it is fact. I was interested in hearing your side of it. You state rather confidently that they go out and get them. Please explain how you come to that conclusion.

[Dogstar]

Just stopped by for a moment. All this talk about recruiting. You all do know that public schools recruit too don't you. I've taught in public schools for over 15 years and I've see it done. Memphis public schools get in trouble every once in a while for recruiting. Just thought I'd mention that since all I'm hearing is that only private schools recruit.

[lazarus]

"What I still don't understand is how a school in D1 that does not recruit and that does not give financial aid to athletes has an advantage over any other public school of similar size."

buck 4 leaf

 

"When those kids come to us in 6th grade some fit our program and other do not. We sometimes have to prune our some diciplinary problems."

buck 4 leaf

 

you answered your own question.

similar size, not similar makeup.

you can get rid of problems, we have to take them.

[Baldcoach]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this ... as it looks like you are a JCM supporter and not necessarily a private supporter (although I may be mistaken). I attended a private as have my siblings and most of all my cousins. From my experience and theirs, I can tell you that very few kids that graduate at a private actually attended elementary school there. For exampe, in my graduating class their were four (that's right 4). They made up less than 7% of the entire graduating class. They made a big deal of it when we graduated as they do every year for some goofy reason. From speaking to a relative of mine that coaches a sport at a very successful private this past weekend ... not a single one of his players this year attended elementary school at that private. Most transferred in after the 8th grade.

 

I'm not really trying to make a point or strengthen or weaken anyone's point. I'm just trying to keep any misinformation about the privates from going on.

 

tns,

 

Your case is very A-typical. Most small private k-12 schools have a huge percentage of students who stay from elementary on. The one that I am most familiar with rarely takes any new students in high school, and with the exception of 6th grade (the grade at which several students always transfer to the large prep schools in town) takes very few students in middle school either. The same is true of our athletic teams...the vast majority of kids on all of our teams are lifers. While I can't speak for all privates, I am pretty sure that we are the norm and your school/class the exception.

[BUC4LIFE]

"What I still don't understand is how a school in D1 that does not recruit and that does not give financial aid to athletes has an advantage over any other public school of similar size."

buck 4 leaf

 

"When those kids come to us in 6th grade some fit our program and other do not. We sometimes have to prune our some diciplinary problems."

buck 4 leaf

 

you answered your own question.

similar size, not similar makeup.

you can get rid of problems, we have to take them.

 

Are you saying public schools can't kick kids out?

[BUC4LIFE]

tns,

 

Your case is very A-typical. Most small private k-12 schools have a huge percentage of students who stay from elementary on. The one that I am most familiar with rarely takes any new students in high school, and with the exception of 6th grade (the grade at which several students always transfer to the large prep schools in town) takes very few students in middle school either. The same is true of our athletic teams...the vast majority of kids on all of our teams are lifers. While I can't speak for all privates, I am pretty sure that we are the norm and your school/class the exception.

 

Coach, I think he said he was in his 30's, so he attended Friendship a long time ago. I'm sure things are different there today and they would be very similar to other private schools here in Chattanooga. I like the term "lifer's" though, we sure have a lot of them.