Wrestling Officials

[the wrestler]

hespinnedref, You are right about the Chattanooga officials, they are great. I believe there are some good ones in Nashville, also. I have seen a couple of good ones in Knoxville, but I haven't seen anything from Memphis. Do they send anyone to the state tournament? I have traveled in the past to Ill and found there officiating is not any better than our guys. I guess you can sat our wrestlers and our officials are similiar. We have some good ones but not enough of them. Overall, I do appreciate all the efforts of the Tennessee officials.

[vanman]

I think there is a lot of good refrees, However, I have seen this year 3 refrees that looked like they have never seen a match before. Im not just talking about bad calls, Im talking about not knowing what to call and causing the wrestlers to become confused.

 

I would guess they were either new or from Memphis.

[halfnelson]

they way you describe this sport, it is not made for spectators, since they can not determine the action from their seats. No wonder the sport seems to be losing fans, they can not follow the action and now should not cheer or jeer like any other sport they know........

You need to read my post again. I did not say the spectators could not or should not cheer. Nor did I say they do not know what is going on on the mat. The refs are on the mat, therefore they have a better view. What we (the spectators) see from the seats may be different to the ref on the mat. For example, when we see that a wrestler is on his back and we assume he is pinned, the ref may see it differently. We can't see in some instances that the wrestlers shoulders are not on the mat, the ref has a better view of what is going on, so he can call it either way. Furthermore, I think others who feel like I do would much rather watching a match where there are no coaches jumping up every minute because a call did not go his way. The match I attended a few weeks ago was not a match between the wrestlers or their team, it was a match between the coaches and who could get the most calls called in their favor. Every minute the coaches were calling the ref to the table. The head ref was even called to the table. Turns out every call the ref called was right on the money. Wrestling has never had the support or fan base as sports like football, basketball, etc. The reason being is because some do not take the sport seriously. They don't see it as a sport. But, I do. I see the benefits of wrestling as it relates to the youths. I have seen a troubled kid's life turned around by his participation in wrestling. If you are one of the fans wrestling is losing because of what I have expressed then "Good!" Maybe me and other spectators can finally enjoy a match for a change. There is nothing wrong with cheering. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with a ref's call. I think there is something wrong with scrutinizing people (refs in particular) to the point that they quit. I would go on, but I would be wasting my time. By the way, I am more than a spectator.

Edited January 21, 2006 by halfnelson

[texas23]

You need to read my post again. I did not say the spectators could not or should not cheer. Nor did I say they do not know what is going on on the mat. The refs are on the mat, therefore they have a better view. What we (the spectators) see from the seats may be different to the ref on the mat. For example, when we see that a wrestler is on his back and we assume he is pinned, the ref may see it differently. We can't see in some instances that the wrestlers shoulders are not on the mat, the ref has a better view of what is going on, so he can call it either way. Furthermore, I think others who feel like I do would much rather watching a match where there are no coaches jumping up every minute because a call did not go his way. The match I attended a few weeks ago was not a match between the wrestlers or their team, it was a match between the coaches and who could get the most calls called in their favor. Every minute the coaches were calling the ref to the table. The head ref was even called to the table. Turns out every call the ref called was right on the money. Wrestling has never had the support or fan base as sports like football, basketball, etc. The reason being is because some do not take the sport seriously. They don't see it as a sport. But, I do. I see the benefits of wrestling as it relates to the youths. I have seen a troubled kid's life turned around by his participation in wrestling. If you are one of the fans wrestling is losing because of what I have expressed then "Good!" Maybe me and other spectators can finally enjoy a match for a change. There is nothing wrong with cheering. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with a ref's call. I think there is something wrong with scrutinizing people (refs in particular) to the point that they quit. I would go on, but I would be wasting my time. By the way, I am more than a spectator.

 

 

I went and re-read your post.

 

You infer that spectators who do not pay a fee to ref should be quite and not run the refs off with their critical comments of the refs inability to call a match.

 

I am not one of the fans who is leaving the sport, I have enjoyed is for over 30 years and will continue to follow it. If a ref makes a poor call in my opinion, while sitting in the stands, then I will annouce my displeasure (especially if the call goes against my team).

 

I am glad that 9 out of 10 of the refs(your numbers) are former wrestlers. With the group of people I typically watch a match with, 10 out of 10 are former wrestlers.

[vanman]

Most of the people who yell the loudest know the least about the rules. What looks like a bad call sometimes is just the spectator not knowing the exact rules, like what exactly is out of bounds, how long you can actually hold a person in the air without taking him down, etc.... and rules and boundries change just about every year. But keep in mind, good or bad call, those guys in the stripped shirt are NOT out there to intentionally screw your kid. I have been following wrestling for a lot of years and I can honestly say, there has on been 1 instance when I thought a ref cheated a kid deliberatly, and that was to get back at his coach. It was so blantant, he was not allowed to officiate anymore, but that was a long time ago. Most of the ref's really like kids and want them to do well.

Edited January 21, 2006 by vanman

[stumpguy]

Most of the people who yell the loudest know the least about the rules. What looks like a bad call sometimes is just the spectator not knowing the exact rules, like what exactly is out of bounds, how long you can actually hold a person in the air without taking him down, etc.... and rules and boundries change just about every year. But keep in mind, good or bad call, those guys in the stripped shirt are NOT out there to intentionally screw your kid. I have been following wrestling for a lot of years and I can honestly say, there has on been 1 instance when I thought a ref cheated a kid deliberatly, and that was to get back at his coach. It was so blantant, he was not allowed to officiate anymore, but that was a long time ago. Most of the ref's really like kids and want them to do well.

Very well put....Officials are there because they love/like the sport and want to be part of it, as stated in previous statements....there is no Official in middle TN that is going to intentionally screw a wrestler of points, now missing a call or illegal hold are two different animals because the saftey of the wrestlers is the number one priority while calling a wrestling match!!!

[halfnelson]

I went and re-read your post.

 

You infer that spectators who do not pay a fee to ref should be quite and not run the refs off with their critical comments of the refs inability to call a match.

 

I am not one of the fans who is leaving the sport, I have enjoyed is for over 30 years and will continue to follow it. If a ref makes a poor call in my opinion, while sitting in the stands, then I will annouce my displeasure (especially if the call goes against my team).

 

I am glad that 9 out of 10 of the refs(your numbers) are former wrestlers. With the group of people I typically watch a match with, 10 out of 10 are former wrestlers.

I meant what I said. I did not say they could not cheer. They should be quiet with their negative remarks that they dwell on during the whole match. It is just a match, get over it. If a coach makes a bad decision during the match, do you announce your displeasure with him/her? Because, I have seen a lot of matches where the coach has a hand in the wrestler losing the match. If you have enjoyed this sport for 30 years, then you know what happens during the matches with bad calls, etc... Why dwell on them? Kudos to you watching matches where 10 out of 10 refs are former wrestlers. I was giving a typical stat of the number of refs that are former wrestlers. Sarcasm, love it!

Edited January 23, 2006 by halfnelson

[texas23]

I meant what I said. I did not say they could not cheer. They should be quite with their negative remarks that they dwell on during the whole match. It is just a match, get over it. If a coach makes a bad decision during the match, do you announce your displeasure with him/her? Because, I have seen a lot of matches where the coach has a hand in the wrestler losing the match. If you have enjoyed this sport for 30 years, then you know what happens during the matches with bad calls, etc... Why dwell on them? Kudos to you watching matches where 10 out of 10 refs are former wrestlers. I was giving a typical stat of the number of refs that are former wrestlers. Sarcasm, love it!

 

 

dude....

 

10 of of 10 of the guys I watch with are former wrestlers, not refs. That comment had nothing to do with sarcasm, it was a response to you giving the refs some kind of pass for knowing the sport. So do the guys in the seats, is my point.

 

the reason coaches dwell on them is to try and intimadate the ref from making a like call later in the match. Or the coach is a hot head. Fans do it because that is what fans do.

[Likeachamp171]

One of the many aspects that makes this sport so great is it's foundation of sportsmanship and respect to everyone in the wrestling community. It's the reason that wrestler's are obligated to shake hands with eachother before and after the match. It's the reason why they are sent to the opposing coach's corner after the match to shake his hand. And it is the reason why officials are allowed to penalize teams for inappropriate behavior from wrestlers, coaches, teams, and even spectators. This sport changed my personality and entire life for the better because it disciplined me, taught me respect, and taught me to be responsible for my mistakes. There were plenty of matches where I blamed the official for losing, but now that I look back on it I have nobody to blame but myself. The officials do the best job they can. They can't be in every position on the mat to make the right call all the time. They can't see threw human bodies to be able to call a pin in certain pinning combinations. Given, there are some officials who haven't quite gotten it down to an art, yet...but they're out there learning and doing what they can. They can't go to seminars and classes in other other states during the off season, because believe or not, they're just like you and have careers that they have to tend to. Everybody misses a call or doesn't see a situation correctly at times, but that's no reason to say that Tennessee officials are bad at what they do. It's far more stressful than you think. It's not comparable to the wrestle-offs some of you might have helped ref at a practice. They are all doing what they can and without them, you children wouldn't even have the pleasure of participating in this great sport. Try to look at everything from their perspective and give them a break. Every call they make is only 50% right 100% of the time. Imagine having that statistic in your office. It's not easy.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Likeachamp171

[silverpie]

And it is the reason why officials are allowed to penalize teams for inappropriate behavior from wrestlers, coaches, teams, and even spectators.

Just so misinformation doesn't spread, that's no longer true, at least on the last point. Rule 7-5-6:

A spectator who acts in an unsportsmanlike manner may be removed from the premises for the remainder of the event. When requested by the referee, the home management shall be responsible for the removal of spectators who become offensive. This shall be done without penalty to either team.

As I suppose it must be, considering you can't prove which team a fan truly supports... Edited January 25, 2006 by silverpie

[hardball03]

It is people like you who get spectators like me angry. You are quick to see a bad call from the seats. The refs are on the mat. Meaning they see things you and I can't see from the bleachers. I remember a match I attended a few weeks back and the coaches along with some of the spectators were horrible. Maybe there are a shortage in refs because all the heckling and other stupid things coaches and spectators say and/or do causes them say "the heck with this, it's not worth the time nor gas to be scrutinized." Remember this , the refs are on the mat, they see better from the mat than in the stands, they pay a fee and take the test to be on the mat and you have not. If you had, you would not be on CoachT knocking on their ability to referee a match. " To err is human." Are you perfect? Why are you expecting them to be? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And everyone is entitled to make mistakes. Some new refs may need a little more training, but that does not make them incompetent at what they do. 9 out 10 refs are former wrestlers, so stop stomping on their ability.

 

After reading your post.....it is apparent you have very a little understanding of the

purpose of an official and what is being complained about.

 

As a coach, my kids drill and condition in a manner that not only is demanding, it

requires a great degree of selflessness and sacrifice. Keep this in mind as you read the rest of this.

 

A referee is there to insure that the "rules of the sport" are enforced in an effort

to produce an accurate result and to protect the wrestlers.

 

It took over half of the season before referees began to penalize an illegal wing, most continued to call potentially dangerous if called at all.......however if one of

my guys leg touched the butt of the other wrestler in the referees position it consistently cautioned. This is only one example of many that could be given.

To me it is a symptom of a lack of experience or majoring in the minors and minoring in the majors. Illegal holds are not readily identified by over half

of the refs. A small number of refs cannot clearly see the weigh in sheets.

Over half are not in position to make a timely/accurate call. I have actually

counted to one thousand four before a few get down on the mat......numerous pins

have been missed because of.........simple laziness?

 

If my kid goes on the mat and does something similar, he gets beat. He has

an immediate result that he experiences.

 

A referee should be assessed by experienced referees and they should have to

pass an eye exam and a physical in addition to experiencing regular assessments.

 

I don't like to complain about refs, however it's the only form of real feedback that

an assignor gets. I pick my battles according to the real danger and that is generally limited to those referees who show a total disregard to understanding

of illegal holds or flagrant violations.

 

You might be able to feel comfortable with throwing verbal stones at a spectator

or even a coach for expressing concern..........try telling a parent why their son

is on the way to the hospital......when the ref says he didn't see the illegal headlock or neck wrench.......you think I'll get excited on sideline when I see it

happening again.......you bet I will.... as a coach I have a right and a duty to question or obtain an explanation in a respectful manner and expect that same

level of respect from an official......generally the weaker officials show very little

respect to the kids or the coaches, it is unfortunate.

 

Again the purpose of a ref is ............

[reftn]

Wow coach, what test did you pass to become a coach? Take an eye test? Hearing test? A rules test? Hardly.

 

When did a chicken wing become an illegal move? And how should it be penalized? Does that run along the same progression for disqualification as a false start or as stalling? And if your assistant looks at me cross eyed is it misconduct or unsportsmanlike, does it matter if his eyes are blue or green?

 

You took no test to become a coach, and I dare say you couldnt score well enough on our closed book test to call post season. I think it should be a rule you have to score 70 on the closed book test to take an official to the table, he had to score that high in order to call your match. Seems fair to me.

 

Number 1 job of an official is to protect the wrestlers from injury, not enforce the rules to ensure an accurate result. So you start out down one.

 

Are there bad officials. Sure. Are there bad coaches. Sure.

 

I would put the number of officials calling to draw a paycheck against the number of coaches doing it to draw a supplement. Want to bet which is the greater percentage?

 

I could tell you about a very well respected coach that tried to explain to me that a wrestler coming from the down (defensive) position on the mat to a standing position behind his opponent had not achieved a reversal. Now you tell me.

 

Good luck at states.

 

reftn