BA vs. TSSAA Ruling In

[tnsddeveloper]

You might be surprised at the allegations (smoke) the TSSAA has heard regarding recruiting violations over the years. Proving them is the hard part, but not for the reason you suggest.

 

Why would a parent want to testify against a coach or a school that provided a free education to his/her son? What is the motive?

 

It is insane to think that a private, secondary school in Tennessee has not provided free tuition to a student for athletic purposes. It has also happened in the public schools, but the financial factor with tuition is removed. Anyone who thinks recruiting has never happened is simply sticking their head in the sand.

 

Most people posting and reading this forum know that "most" financial aid is given for educational purposes. The issue is that it should never be given for athletic purposes. A coach or anyone connected with a school should never recruit an athlete.

 

Should a school be allowed to recruit athletes? If you think they should, then you should not be a member of the TSSAA. It goes against their rules. Get the rule changed. Violating an existing rule is not the answer.

 

I think the issue isn't that people don't belive it is happening everywhere - publics, privates, magnets, open-zoned. It's that it has not been the basis for any punishment as far as I know and no one has a has been able to 100% say that it has happened anywhere. (And folks leave the USJ thing out of this ... they self-reported the issue ... if they were looking to pull something funny, they wouldn't have self-reported the issue at all) Until someone does get 100% caught doing it ... then it really doesn't happen. Making it really rumor and innuendo.

[82cat]

I am so tired of your misformation.

 

1. Name one athlete at any school ever who was paid to come to a school and play sports.

 

2. Name the 6 or 7 BA players in a single year who signed D1 scholarships.

 

3. The Shelbyville girls play with whoever shows up. Maryville, Riverdale and Alcoa footbal teams play with whoever shows up. I am not accusing these programs of illegal recruiting but they have all had athletes transfer to their schools. Get me a break!

 

 

1. I won't name a name but there have been several one really comes to mind --

 

A good young man who wasn't able to get into any college after finishing his fine career at this college preparatory school that has one of the highest college acceptance rates in the state. But I am sure he was there as a scholar. If he had not been a football player he would never have stepped foot on that campus period and you know it.

 

2. Never said in one year I said on one team and if you can't name at least 2 players per yr that signed from brentwood academy during the 90's then you haven't been paying attention.

 

3. Those publics have players transfer all the time and to do so they must move into that schools zone or have a legal change of guardianship neither of which is required to attend a private school.

 

recruit em pay em play em : )

 

My prediciton is these law suits will eventually kill off the TSSAA and then you will see total chaos. I can see a day ahead with no governing body and teams forming small regions and just playing each other with no state tournaments at all. Then BA can have that warm fuzzy feeling of victory.

Edited March 20, 2006 by 82cat

[jek]

You might be surprised at the allegations (smoke) the TSSAA has heard regarding recruiting violations over the years. Proving them is the hard part, but not for the reason you suggest.

 

Why would a parent want to testify against a coach or a school that provided a free education to his/her son? What is the motive?

 

It is insane to think that a private, secondary school in Tennessee has not provided free tuition to a student for athletic purposes. It has also happened in the public schools, but the financial factor with tuition is removed. Anyone who thinks recruiting has never happened is simply sticking their head in the sand.

 

Most people posting and reading this forum know that "most" financial aid is given for educational purposes. The issue is that it should never be given for athletic purposes. A coach or anyone connected with a school should never recruit an athlete.

 

Should a school be allowed to recruit athletes? If you think they should, then you should not be a member of the TSSAA. It goes against their rules. Get the rule changed. Violating an existing rule is not the answer.

 

I don't think anyone has asserted that there have been no cases where need

based financial aid has been granted to a student that only participates in

athletics. My point is that this is by far the exception and not the rule. I agree

with your point above that no school should recruit students for athletics. Private

schools should be granting need based financial aid to those students that want

to maximize their potential (which should be academics first and then

extracurricular activities). In practice, that is what is happening at BA.

 

Regardless, as long as a school does not violate the rules by using undue

influence or providing improper financial incentives (as discussed and defined

in the various court rulings) then there is no issue.

 

I make my living in the entertainment world and am well acquainted with the

issues of rumor and inuendo. I have heard many of the "allegations" over

the years and know them to be nothing more than jealous rantings. I am sure

that there are more than a few Coaches and Principals that would love to see

BA get slapped with a real violation. If the substantive violations truly existed,

then someone would have brought them to light.

Edited March 20, 2006 by jek

[82cat]

I don't think anyone has asserted that there have been no cases where need

based financial aid has been granted to a student that only participates in

athletics. My point is that this is by far the exception and not the rule. I agree

with your point above that no school should recruit students for athletics. Private

schools should be granting need based financial aid to those students that want

to maximize their potential (which should be academics first and then

extracurricular activities). In practice, that is what is happening at BA.

 

Regardless, as long as a school does not violate the rules by using undue

influence or providing improper financial incentives (as discussed and defined

in the various court rulings) then there is no issue.

 

I make my living in the entertainment world and am well acquainted with the

issues of rumor and inuendo. I have heard many of the "allegations" over

the years and know them to be nothing more than jealous rantings. I am sure

that there are more than a few Coaches and Principals that would love to see

BA get slapped with a real violation. If the substantive violations truly existed,

then someone would have brought them to light.

 

 

Wow you must live in oz if you really truly think some of those "students" on BA'S FOOTBALL team are their for their scholastic contribution to the school.

 

I could name a few but I won;t I can assure you that would have never stepped foot on that campus if it wasn't for their football ability and anyone that doesn't believe that is certainly living in the entertainment world where fictional accounts are common.

[tnsddeveloper]

Wow you must live in oz if you really truly think some of those "students" on BA'S FOOTBALL team are their for their scholastic contribution to the school.

 

I could name a few but I won;t I can assure you that would have never stepped foot on that campus if it wasn't for their football ability and anyone that doesn't believe that is certainly living in the entertainment world where fictional accounts are common.

I can also name several students that never would have stepped foot on campus had it not been for their academic ability.

[jek]

1. I won't name a name but there have been several one really comes to mind --

 

A good young man who wasn't able to get into any college after finishing his fine career at this college preparatory school that has one of the highest college acceptance rates in the state. But I am sure he was there as a scholar. If he had not been a football player he would never have stepped foot on that campus period and you know it.

 

2. Never said in one year I said on one team and if you can't name at least 2 players per yr that signed from brentwood academy during the 90's then you haven't been paying attention.

 

3. Those publics have players transfer all the time and to do so they must move into that schools zone or have a legal change of guardianship neither of which is required to attend a private school.

 

recruit em pay em play em : )

 

My prediciton is these law suits will eventually kill off the TSSAA and then you will see total chaos. I can see a day ahead with no governing body and teams forming small regions and just playing each other with no state tournaments at all. Then BA can have that warm fuzzy feeling of victory.

 

So you are going to cite one example in order to indict the whole system. How

about the hundreds (or thousands) of students that went on to college because

of the education they received at a private school (as a result of the need based

financial aid that enabled them to get away from a bad public school situation).

 

How many tremendous athletes or potential scholars do not graduate from

public high school because of the circumstances of that school environment.

There are many fine public schools in this state but there are also many

substandard schools.

 

Trying to extrapolate results from a very very small sample in order to define

the merits of a system is incredibly narrow minded and short sighted. Look at

the results over the long term and total population before rendering judgment.

[tnsddeveloper]

1. I won't name a name but there have been several one really comes to mind --

 

A good young man who wasn't able to get into any college after finishing his fine career at this college preparatory school that has one of the highest college acceptance rates in the state. But I am sure he was there as a scholar. If he had not been a football player he would never have stepped foot on that campus period and you know it.

 

2. Never said in one year I said on one team and if you can't name at least 2 players per yr that signed from brentwood academy during the 90's then you haven't been paying attention.

 

3. Those publics have players transfer all the time and to do so they must move into that schools zone or have a legal change of guardianship neither of which is required to attend a private school.

 

recruit em pay em play em : )

 

My prediciton is these law suits will eventually kill off the TSSAA and then you will see total chaos. I can see a day ahead with no governing body and teams forming small regions and just playing each other with no state tournaments at all. Then BA can have that warm fuzzy feeling of victory.

 

Actually, all it takes to transfer within the public school system is to say you are now going to live with your other parent (if they are divorced) or another legal guardian such as getting legal guardianship turned over to a grandparent. I know of more than 10 people that personally did that to attend particular public schools. None of them actually lived where they said they were going to. Not one.

 

This goes on everywhere. You just have your panties in a wad about the privates ... so much so you can't see this is an issue for everyone.

[jek]

Wow you must live in oz if you really truly think some of those "students" on BA'S FOOTBALL team are their for their scholastic contribution to the school.

 

I could name a few but I won;t I can assure you that would have never stepped foot on that campus if it wasn't for their football ability and anyone that doesn't believe that is certainly living in the entertainment world where fictional accounts are common.

 

I never said that there aren't students that come to BA (or other Private schools)

for just the athletics. My point is that these are the rare exceptions and not

the rule. Just because you think that you can name a few does not invalidate

the system.

 

Also, just because the child thinks he or she is coming for athletics does not mean

that the Parent has the same motivation. I know of kids who have come to BA for

the athletics when the Parent was using this as the carrot to get them into the

environment in hopes that they would also become motivated to be a good

student.

[BDURHAM]

This is insane, and goes beyone rational thinking.

 

You state that you know of 10 transfers who are not valid transfers. Okay, assume that this is true, which in reality, is probably an embellishment. Yet, for the sake of argument, assume it is true.

 

Then how in the word can you and other BA supporters assume as a matter of fact that not one private has violated the recruiting rule?

 

No one has to post a name or school. People know that privates have violated the recruiting rule.

 

The issue is how do you stop recruiting? BA's lawyer, Barfield has stated to the Tennessean that recruiting will now probably become "legal."

 

A great contribution to high school sports. Let me see if I understand this brilliant legal thinking: "Uh, we never violated the recruiting rule, but now our lawsuit has opened the door to recruiting."

 

Brilliant BA. You have proved everyone's point.

 

Actually, all it takes to transfer within the public school system is to say you are now going to live with your other parent (if they are divorced) or another legal guardian such as getting legal guardianship turned over to a grandparent. I know of more than 10 people that personally did that to attend particular public schools. None of them actually lived where they said they were going to. Not one.

 

This goes on everywhere. You just have your panties in a wad about the privates ... so much so you can't see this is an issue for everyone.

Edited March 20, 2006 by StanTrott

[tnsddeveloper]

Uh, I never said that it doesn't happen anywhere. What I have said is that NO ONE has proven it anywhere without a shadow of a doubt - public or private.

 

No embellishment on my part. I can name each and every single one of the kids. Some are relatives of mine. Some actually transferred from privates to publics. Others did not like the school they were zoned for and wanted to attend the school there grandparent's house was zoned for. Why is it easy to point this figure directly at privates, but it becomes unfathomable that it might be happening the other way around?

 

Another question: do you think Shelbyville has a magic waterfountain that turns out D1 girls basketball players with each and every class?

 

This is insane, and goes beyone rational thinking.

 

You state that you know of 10 transfers who are not valid transfers. Okay, assume that this is true, which in reality, is probably an embellishment. Yet, for the sake of argument, assume it is true.

 

Then how in the work can you and other BA supporters assume as a matter of fact that not one private has violated the recruiting rule?

 

No one has to post a name or school. People know that privates have violated the recruiting rule.

 

The issue is how do you stop recruiting? BA's lawyer, Barfield has stated to the Tennessean that recruiting will now probably become "legal."

 

A great contribution to high school sports. Let me see if I understand this brilliant legal thinking: "Uh, we never violated the recruiting rule, but now our lawsuit has opened the door to recruiting."

 

Brilliant BA. You have proved everyone's point.

[BDURHAM]

Who needs to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt? No thinking person will deny that recruiting it has happened. I can't prove a lot of things on a message board, and neither can you. Give me $100,000 in legal fees, and I will prove it in court.

 

Both publics and privates have violated the recruiting rules. No one who has extensive experience in Tennessee high school sports across the state will deny it.

But why throw Shelbyville girls basketball under the bus? That is about as hypocritical as you can get on these boards.

 

Stop playing the martyr. BA is winning the stupid lawsuit and destroying high school sports in Tennessee.

 

What we don't hear you BA people admitting is that privates have violated the recruiting rules. Stating that it never has happened is insane.

 

 

 

Uh, I never said that it doesn't happen anywhere. What I have said is that NO ONE has proven it anywhere without a shadow of a doubt - public or private.

 

No embellishment on my part. I can name each and every single one of the kids. Some are relatives of mine. Some actually transferred from privates to publics. Others did not like the school they were zoned for and wanted to attend the school there grandparent's house was zoned for. Why is it easy to point this figure directly at privates, but it becomes unfathomable that it might be happening the other way around?

 

Another question: do you think Shelbyville has a magic waterfountain that turns out D1 girls basketball players with each and every class?

Edited March 20, 2006 by StanTrott

[commander1]

Who needs to prove it beyond a shadow of doubt? No thinking person will deny that recruiting it has happened. I can't prove a lot of things on a message board, and neither can you. Give me $100,000 in legal fees, and I will prove it in court.

 

Both publics and privates have violated the recruiting rules. No one who has extensive experience in Tennessee high school sports across the state will deny it.

But why throw Shelbyville girls basketball under the bus? That is about as hypocritical as you can get on these boards.

 

Stop playing the martyr. BA is winning the stupid lawsuit and destroying high school sports in Tennessee.

 

What we don't hear you BA people admitting is that privates have violated the recruiting rules. Stating that it never has happened is insane.

How can you say that the lawsuit is stupid and how is that destroying Tenn. high school sports ? My observation is just the opposite... if anyone has tried to destroy Tn. high school sports it is King Carter and his court jesters or fools. I am not a BA person but since you OBVIOUSLY are a public school supporter, why is mentioning Shelbyville " throwing them under the bus " ? If cheating is cheating why are any schools different ? What this lawsuit was about concerned people who were already set to enter BA... Carter got so much heat from his public school croonies he had to do something. He just got it handed back to him because BA didn't back down from the "mighty" TSSAA. Since you said something was destroying high school sports how much do you think ticket prices will go up since TSSAA has to come up with money to pay 8 years of BA legal fees ?